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Discussion Starter #1
Just a few years ago the EPA included a 4 gallon minimum purchase from US gas pumps that sell mixed levels of ethanol.
They got push back from the AMA (2012). Now they are reintroducing the 4 gal minimum.
You can read the details HERE

I'm hoping that this thread can stay on point that this is a policy problem for motorcyclist and not a partisan bickering issue.
Here in California, not so many years after ethanol was introduced, there are only 18 registered gas stations that sell E0 (non-ethanol) gasoline. And with one exception they are all in rural towns.
You can search your own states for E0 stations in your state HERE That is a volunteer list so there is likely exceptions but it points out the scope of E15 advancement.


Once this gets into the Federal law via the EPA ...
Check it out and push back if you think you should.
 

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And three of California's 18 E0 stations are in Ukiah. Lil' ol' Idaho has 178 stations. My bikes rarely get ethanol.

I've signed the AMA petitions and wrote my congressmen.
 

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"There is also an AP called pure gas. Shows all the stations selling non-ethanol close to you."

not all that handy when touring the country side.
When I wrote to my representative telling how bad it was for cars,etc, she thanked me and took the envelope from the industry.
 

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After reading the link, I'm not sure why they are introducing a 4 gallon minimum and how they are actually going to enforce it.
Can anyone enlighten me on these points?
Thanks.
 

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AMA's website quotes an EPA response to its letter, saying that the 4-gallon minimum would apply to fewer than 1% of fueling stations, i.e., those that have pumps that dispense both E10 and E15, in order to prevent motorcycles and the like from getting E15 inadvertently. That makes it sound a little less onerous. Here's the quote:

Dispensing E10 in volumes less than 4 gallons from a pump that supplies E10 only is absolutely NOT a violation.

The excerpted portion you highlighted should refer only to the less than 1% of gas stations that have gasoline pumps that that dispense BOTH E10 and E15 from a single hose or nozzle. The 4 gallon fueling minimum for E10 is only required for these “co-dispensing pumps” and is there to protect consumers. The 4 gallon minimum ensures that engines, that are not allowed to use E15 (like those in motorcycles) do not inadvertently get too much ethanol in the tank. To comply with EPA regulations, most stations with co-dispensing pumps simply put up a sign that says the co-dispensing pump may only be used for passenger vehicles and separately offer a dedicated E10 pump for motorcycles and other engines that cannot use E15. Motorcyclists or other types of vehicles and engines that require E10 in volumes of less than 4 gallons should not have a problem finding E10 in any volume they need.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
AMA's website quotes an EPA response to its letter, saying that the 4-gallon minimum would apply to fewer than 1% of fueling stations, i.e., those that have pumps that dispense both E10 and E15, ...[SNIP] The excerpted portion you highlighted should refer only to the less than 1% of gas stations that have gasoline pumps that that dispense BOTH E10 and E15 from a single hose or nozzle.... [SNIP} Motorcyclists or other types of vehicles and engines that require E10 in volumes of less than 4 gallons should not have a problem finding E10 in any volume they need.
The EPA's response is completely true today, Sept 7 2016. However, the problem for us is that if the 4 gal minimum becomes codified and deemed to be an adequate resolution it creates the path to eliminate the E10 solo pumps and add E15 and E20 combo pumps to take their place.

There is nothing in my experience that tells me that the industry won't leave us high and dry in a squabble over a limited amount of pump real estate unless we stand up to it. While one can only guess what the time frame might be, but certainly it could happen in two or three years. Even if it takes five years, I want to keep riding a lot longer than that without having to search for specialized fueling stations.

In the big picture we are pretty much invisible to the lobbyists, bureaucrats and members of congress if we let ourselves be.
 

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Take the CAGE and three five-gallon cans and fill up the cans.

And then gas up your cycle at home.

Scroom.

Eventually, I expect, they'll cram down that E20 and make lesser blends against the law - and that'll meet their REAL end, which is putting us on their stupid buses.
 

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Take the CAGE and three five-gallon cans and fill up the cans.

And then gas up your cycle at home.

Scroom.

Eventually, I expect, they'll cram down that E20 and make lesser blends against the law - and that'll meet their REAL end, which is putting us on their stupid buses.
Would be okay at home, but not on a trip. Plus, it's a bit of a hassle if you simply want to ride your bike and fill it as you go.
 

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I'm thinking that the motorcycle industry will mitigate the increase in alcohol somehow.

Like the auto industry did when forced out of freon.
 

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Would be okay at home, but not on a trip. Plus, it's a bit of a hassle if you simply want to ride your bike and fill it as you go.
It's a REAL hassle; but in ten years, nobody has found the will to end this ethanol insanity. And it just keeps on getting worse.

On the road, I have a hard time finding booze-free; so, often, I have to just fill up with rotgut. That's the way it is, in modern America. I figure if I burn the gas the same day I buy it, damage is minimal.
 

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Actually

There may be hope for ending the ethanol craze, at least ethanol from corn. Someone was conducting a study of the amount of air, water, and ground pollution caused by raising the corn, along with any pollution from the conversion process, in addition to the amount of water consumed. The premise was the amount of extra pollution caused is far greater than the amount of pollution saved. Not hard to believe, since I've never seen scientific evidence of the alleged savings in air pollution from using ethanol.

In any event, perhaps rationality will prevail. And farmers will go back to raising food, not fuel.
 

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There may be hope for ending the ethanol craze, at least ethanol from corn. Someone was conducting a study of the amount of air, water, and ground pollution caused by raising the corn, along with any pollution from the conversion process, in addition to the amount of water consumed. The premise was the amount of extra pollution caused is far greater than the amount of pollution saved. Not hard to believe, since I've never seen scientific evidence of the alleged savings in air pollution from using ethanol.

In any event, perhaps rationality will prevail. And farmers will go back to raising food, not fuel.
I keep hoping; but the closest thing to Eternal Life is a government program.

Look at how long it took to get rid of the 55-mph speed limit. Or government subsidies for tobacco. Or hundreds of other obsolete, counterproductive, or irrelevant programs or requirements or stipulations.
 

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That's OK my tank is 3.7gal and light comes up at 3.1. So it won't be too bad for environment it is only 0.6gal to pour on the ground.

:laugh2:

If I decide to dump the existing gas in the hose then fill my tank (so I only get the good stuff, you know the 10% *#+~) how much gas would I need to pour out onto the ground?

The not funny part, somebody will actually do this!
 

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AMA's website quotes an EPA response to its letter, saying that the 4-gallon minimum would apply to fewer than 1% of fueling stations, i.e., those that have pumps that dispense both E10 and E15, in order to prevent motorcycles and the like from getting E15 inadvertently. That makes it sound a little less onerous. Here's the quote:

Dispensing E10 in volumes less than 4 gallons from a pump that supplies E10 only is absolutely NOT a violation.

The excerpted portion you highlighted should refer only to the less than 1% of gas stations that have gasoline pumps that that dispense BOTH E10 and E15 from a single hose or nozzle. The 4 gallon fueling minimum for E10 is only required for these “co-dispensing pumps” and is there to protect consumers. The 4 gallon minimum ensures that engines, that are not allowed to use E15 (like those in motorcycles) do not inadvertently get too much ethanol in the tank. To comply with EPA regulations, most stations with co-dispensing pumps simply put up a sign that says the co-dispensing pump may only be used for passenger vehicles and separately offer a dedicated E10 pump for motorcycles and other engines that cannot use E15. Motorcyclists or other types of vehicles and engines that require E10 in volumes of less than 4 gallons should not have a problem finding E10 in any volume they need.
All true - but the INTENT of the EPA ruling is to get E15 oout of testing and into the real world. Like a salesman getting his foot in teh door and inching his slimey way in.
The corn lobby has gotten to be a royal PITA pimping this shit as a viable fuel. Go look at the numbers anywhere and you will readily discover that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than its worth, it lowers energy output and lowers your mileage. There are no savings to be had with this stuff. Even the touted emissions reduction is BS because they happen when teh stuff is made.
 

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There may be hope for ending the ethanol craze, at least ethanol from corn. Someone was conducting a study of the amount of air, water, and ground pollution caused by raising the corn, along with any pollution from the conversion process, in addition to the amount of water consumed. The premise was the amount of extra pollution caused is far greater than the amount of pollution saved. Not hard to believe, since I've never seen scientific evidence of the alleged savings in air pollution from using ethanol.

In any event, perhaps rationality will prevail. And farmers will go back to raising food, not fuel.
You want to invest, invest in tequila. They estimate a shortage of the stuff in a few years because the Mexicans that grow the cactus are plowing them under to grow corn which brings them more money.
Those cactus aren't easily replaced and legally if it's sold as tequila it has to be made from those cactus in that area.
 
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If I decide to dump the existing gas in the hose then fill my tank (so I only get the good stuff, you know the 10% *#+~) how much gas would I need to pour out onto the ground?

The not funny part, somebody will actually do this!
Not sure how funny it will be but the funniest place to see it would be in Oregon, the home of "you so dumb we won't let you pour your gas".

I ran out of gas three once b/c they wouldn't put anything past click, which left me 1.5gal short of full, on 4.1gal tank!
 

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Not sure how funny it will be but the funniest place to see it would be in Oregon, the home of "you so dumb we won't let you pour your gas".

I ran out of gas three once b/c they wouldn't put anything past click, which left me 1.5gal short of full, on 4.1gal tank!
They never pump my gas when I'm riding thru Oregon. They have never had a problem letting me pump my own.
 
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