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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I will try to make this brief but with as much information as possible.. I have a K7 Vee that has me baffled.. I did a valve adjust and tb sync not long ago and really took my time to make sure it was done right and was very meticulous.. The bike has been running as smooth and strong as it ever has.. Well on the way to work a couple weeks ago I started hearing something not right and a ticking noise. I got her home grabbed the stethoscope and fired her up.. I could hear the noise coming from the rear cylinder. I hurried and pulled it apart and to my surprise the outer spring loaded gear on the intake camshaft was missing some teeth. The inner gear looks fine and the lower drive gear looks fine as well. I have already purchased another low mile engine and have it installed but am waiting on a gasket because the clutch cover was scratched up so I swapped my clean one over.. Other than that its ready to go.. Anyhow back to the subject, has anyone run into an issue like this before? The failed engine had 37000 miles on it.. Valves have been checked twice and had all eight had to be adjusted the last check. What has been eating at me is did I miss something.. Its just strange that it has been running so well then this happens. If it was a timing issue and valves were hitting the piston wouldn't have sheered teeth on both intake sprockets and not just the outer one? Below are some photos.. My other question is do I rebuild this engine? Am I going to have fits finding all the teeth without a complete tear down? and what should I do for cams? Will SV or TL cams fit right in without any problems or should I stick with DL cams? Any recommendations? Should I just part it out? Just for clarification the cam was not dropped during the process..





 

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1) Find the chunk/chunks

2) Install a new gear or camshaft

3) Enjoy having a spare engine


If the engine was running at the time of disassembly, chances are that nothing else was damaged. The other half of the gear kept everything in time, so the valves are fine. I'd look for damage to the cam chain guides and idler gear depending on where the piece/pieces of the gear ended up. The idler gear doesn't look beat up at all.

The oil pickup screens and filter would prevent any damage to the rest of the engine -- in other words, find the chunks and assess/repair whatever damage they might have caused, and you'll be fine. No need for a complete engine rebuild.

The gear isn't available separately from Suzuki (it's part of the camshaft for about $260), but perhaps the forums or eBay might uncover a spare camshaft or cylinder head cheaper and you could perform a gear transplant.

I've never heard of this happening before. Very strange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Finding the pieces is what concerns me.. Am I going to need to tear this thing completely apart? The guides look great and I can't see any issues with the idler gear. I can see about an inch piece of teeth down behind one of the guides, I just can't get to it..
 

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I wonder if maybe the cam got dropped at some point while out of the bike. I would do as the previous post suggested and fish out the parts I am sure the motor is fine. I do see the cams come up from time to time on ebay with the gear. I have a set of front cams with gears but the gear is different for the rear cylinder due to the timing marks.

Another idea is that something was run through the cam gear that would cause the crack. I would take a look at the chain too and see if there may be some sort of failure there. Maybe a pin that came out of place and got caught where the gears ride on the idler gear. But that is a weird one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No one else was around when I did the valve adjust and Im certain I didn't drop it.. I lifted it out, sat it on a clean rag then pulled the buckets and shims keeping them all organized.. I could understand it if I had dropped it..
 

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You'd need to at least remove the cams and tensioner to gain access to the chunk, fish it out with a magnet on a flexible stalk, and thoroughly inspect everything. The gear chunk is steel, and most of the engine is aluminum.

Since this is a unique situation it's hard to tell, but I'd bet you can take care of this without removing the head.

If you need to see into the sump to search for more chunks (that one chunk may be the entire missing piece), remove the clutch cover and clutch (which, from your other posts, might already be done) and snake in a small mirror. Maybe you can find or borrow a bore scope.

Inspect the chunk carefully when you find it -- if it's just cleanly cracked and complete, great. If it looks beat up like it's been bouncing around on something metal, then you'll want to be more thorough in looking for other damage.
 

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No one else was around when I did the valve adjust and Im certain I didn't drop it.. I lifted it out, sat it on a clean rag then pulled the buckets and shims keeping them all organized.. I could understand it if I had dropped it..
It may be a factory or assembly defect, too. At this point, the root cause is unprovable and likely not relevant, but this is definitely not a common failure. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the first one like this.

Another piece of something bouncing around in there could cause this (maybe a bolt, for example), so look carefully for this possibility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Ive been concentrating on getting this other engine in, so I haven't looked real close, but you are correct in that the clutch cover is already off so Im not that far off from being in a position to do some searching.. I was thinking maybe flushing it out very thoroughly through the top of that cylinder as well but I think I may have tear it down a little more to get to screens etc.. The piece I could see looked like a section of the biggest part missing but there are a couple teeth to the side that are probably in there somewhere individually..

If I found a rear cylinder intake or exhaust cam from a TL, or SV anyone think it would be the same gear? I see a whole set (4) of TL cams right now on ebay sitting at $19.. Or a whole set of DL's plus chains and gears for $89..
 
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A couple of things to look for come to mind.
Have a look at the remaining gears to check for dents which might indicate a solid piece of metal was left behind.... or perhaps a previous tech was prying on the cam gears.
Also;
I can't tell for sure but it appears there was a sealant used in conjunction with the valve cover gasket. You may want to ensure there are no strands of goop loose in the engine.
I have seen cam bearing failures related to errant debris.... a bearing failure can damage a gear because it's the weakest link in the chain.
My monitor is kinda crappy... I can't tell what is stamped on the side of the gear...it looks like REAR. Does that mean anything in this case?
Lastly, I think you can rent bore scopes from tool rental outfits if you want to scope out all the nooks and crannies.

Please keep us posted on what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well I have a few days until my remaining gasket comes in so I'll throw this one on the work bench and start investigating.. Im not sure how much I want to spend on this one just to have a spare.. Ive debated about selling the bike over how frustrating this has been.. I need a dependable bike and although the engine I installed only has 11700 miles on it, I don't know the history of it.. I do know the valves were very clean, and the remaining oil that was in it was very clean.. They had also been using a 16 tooth front sprocket and it had iridium plugs in it already so It seems to me the original owner payed attention to the bike and was getting it tuned in. All I can do is hope its a good engine at this point. It started right up and sounded very good..
 

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From everything I can tell the heads are the same from the sv1000 to the dl1000. All of the part numbers of the valves, springs etc are the same. The intake boot is different as are the cams. I don't know if the gears are the same or not. I also was not saying it was you who dropped it. It could have been done from a PO. But I have no idea. The split cam gear is a design to keep the whine down. I wonder if it was one of the teeth that fractured and that in turn took out the larger section of the gear. If your idle gear is damaged let me know I do have an extra of those as well. It is doing me no good sitting here. I am sure that part is the same from the front to rear heads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I didn't take your note about possibly dropping the cam offensive.. Its a valid possibility, but Im the original owner of the bike and don't trust dealers.. I use to own my own atv/watercraft/snowmobile repair company years ago and still do my own work for sake of peace of mind.. I'll start tearing into this thing and keep this post updated as to anything I find and photos.. If I do find a damaged idler I'll keep in touch..

Thanks for the replies, its seems like when something like this gets thrown into a think tank of people experienced with this particular bike (or any other for that matter) eventually a reasonable explanation comes to fruition..

I am just soooooooo happy that a guy that was interested in buying it a few weeks ago didn't take it when I gave him a price. I would have felt like crap had he taken it and not even gone a few hundred miles before it bit the dust..
 

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Here is a couple thoughts but would need a reapir manual to look at. I am looking at your cam sprocket which is stamped "REAR E" which I assume means rear head exhaust side but it looks like you have it on the intake side? Also another thought would be did you align the split gear correctly or did it unwind when you removed it?

Zak
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Did a double check after your post, and yes the cams are on correct.. Intakes on the inside, exhaust on the out.. I put it back exactly how I took it apart.. When I removed the cams the spring loaded gears only moved a fraction of an inch. I took a red sharpee and marked all the alignment points and the top of both gears (teeth) to make sure they would be aligned. It would have had to spin 360 without me seeing it.. Can they spin all the way around?
 

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No but they can move more than one tooth. Their should be an alighnment hole that you screw in a bolt to hold the alignment before you take the chain off.

Zak
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Where I marked a tooth on both gears to make sure they were lined back up I dont see that as the problem then but thank you...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
AZstrom, are you thinking the 650? on the 1000's there is no chain that has to come off and no alignment holes...
 

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Yes I am think he missed it being the 1000. I will go out and check my cams that are in a box and see if you can spin the gear. I don't think you can.
I went out and checked there is no way that you can spin that gear.
 

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I was looking at the images that were supplied. The two part split gear has a half that rotates slightly under spring pressure to apply constant pressure on the adjoining gear to reduce noise. There should be a way to insure that the split gear does not come out of alignment with the two halfs. Most bikes have a bolt hole on the gear so that when you screw the bolt in the two halfs stay aligned. My assumption is you needed to remove the cam and gear to adjust the valve clearance correct? I haven't worked on this motor yet being I just got it but Yamaha split gears as well as vehicles like Toyota and Lexus all use split gears and are kept in alignment this way.

Zak
 

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Zak on these gears the four springs that apply the pressure are preloaded and they keep the gear from turning to far out. The outer gear only rotate a couple of degrees upon removal and cannot be rotated more due to the springs binding it.
 
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