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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Esteemed Colleauges,

I decided to replace my '02 Vee's sprockets and chain. SAfter careful examination of all relevant posts, I assembled what I believed I needed and began the job. Well, what I believe might be an expensive mechanical failure struck amost immediately. The upper left allen bolt (the one with the spacer) on the clutch actuator cylinder snapped off about 1/2" from the inside case surface adjacent to the drive sprocket shaft--why, I have no idea. Maybe a botch on the part of the previous owner? Irrelevant, I imagine... I got the chain/sprocket job done, but left the drive sprocket unmounted. As those of you who work on your own bike are aware, there is very little room with which to work down in there, and I have zero experience with snapped bolts. My great fear is that a big-time disassembly is in the offing, with many hundreds of dollars at stake.

My skills consist of normal maintainence and this will likely require trailering to a dealer. My question to all of you is this: What's the best guess on what the fix going to consist of??

Thanks,

Randy in Dublin, CA
 

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Looks like you have enough material sticking out you could try double nutting it and the lefty loosey. Or grab it with a vicious vice grips. A little propane heat on the case outside would let it expand a bit before you try to loosen it.
 

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I agree with above

You are right next to a rubber seal so be very careful with the heat or be prepared to replace the seal as well (not the worst thing)

It looks clean but sometime heat some spray nut loosener and repeat like 3 times. Also a few firm taps with a hammer to separate the threads loose

Because its broken you have relieved ALL the tension on the bolt all ready.

You were due for a new bike anyway
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hey notacop and richw

Just the kind of info I was looking for!!!!:thumbup:
I will go to the hardware store, take one of the bolts with me and get a coupla nuttz. The double thing just might work. Whether it does or not, I'll post again with pics of how badly I misinterpreted your very sage advice...

BTW, used an RK chain and a screw link. Put a couple of little nuts on the remaining threads w/ red locker, and it looks mighty nice.
 

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+1 on the vicious locking pliers solution. Maybe not enough length to get 2 nuts on.

I've never had any luck with heat when the bolt is in a large aluminum heatsink like an engine case.

Don't discount the ability of a good penetrating oil to loosen the bolt before you start manhandling it.

Penetrating oil doesn't work fast if you're dealing with HD threadlocker on that bolt. I've known it to
take 3 days of repeated application, plus vibration to help break it loose using a hammer and an old bolt.
On day 3 my broken bolt was magically loose.

Put a rag/paper towel to catch drips and file (grind, Dremel?) opposite flats on 2 sides of the bolt for the
best grip.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
re:broken bolt

Austin,

Thx for the advice. I'm siiting here in my home office on vacation, and really don't want to deal with it. I will use the penetrating oil to start. Doubt the double nut thing will work because of how fine the threads are--I gave it a half-hearted quick try with channellock pliers Saturday nite (to no avail:furious:), and might've bodged the thread near the broken end...The real problem is the confined space...But who knows, eh?
 

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Maybe a slot cut in with a dremel, heat, and a good wack with an impact driver will break it loose.
 

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Real Vise Grip Brand Vise Grips

Serious pressure to attach it so no slip

Make sure you apply only rotational force , not pull or push

Old Indian says apply the rotational torque
Hit end with hammer while maintaining turning pressure
You are the real impact driver

Once broken free at all it will come out easy
 

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Yeah, that two handed, one with a hammer technique should help.
I see you had a share of ministering to frozen bolts experience.:headbang:
 

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I was thinking of changing out my chain and sprockets too. Is this a common thing to break? lol.

Hopefully you can get i out.

I have an impact driver to get bolts like this out. Would need to cut a slot in the end with a dremel or hacksaw blade of some kind, then you put this tool on the end and give it a whack with a hammer, the tip turns when you hit it. Another way would be to drill a hole in the center of the bolt, then put a reverse thread into it followed by a revers threaded bolt, Then wrench away.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Bolt removal saga update

Okay, I just went to the hrdware and took the other GOOD bolt with me, then bought some M6-1.0 hex nuts after I found they fit...
Got one on the broken bolt, but the second one (for double-nut technique) would not go on.:furious: Guess I had less of the bolt protruding than I thought.

So I grabbed some Red locktite and, being very, very careful, used a Q-tip to put some inside a nut and on tip of the bolt. I then spun the nut down on the protruding bolt. I did not get any threadlocker squashed up against the inner case.

  1. I will wait 24 hrs and see if the nut has sufficient adhesion to the bold to remove both with a 10mm socket. I'm guessing it won't work.
  2. If it doesn't, I will grind down both nuts (not easy with something the size of a fingernail) and try to get both on the bolt and THEN try double-nut technique. ONE QUESTION---Will I need to clean off red locktite when I put them on, and if so, will Goo Gone work? What dissoves red locktite??
  3. If all else fails, I'll try to flatten both sides of the bolt a little, around the snapped-off end of the bolt, with a Dremel grinding head. Then try to turn it with a needle-nosed vice grip.

    I am trying this in a logical progression so that trying one solution doesn't eliminate my ability to go on to something else.

    Drum roll for tomorrow morning.

    Heck of a way to spend a vacation week.:headbang:
 

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Okay, I just went to the hrdware and took the other GOOD bolt with me, then bought some M6-1.0 hex nuts after I found they fit...
Got one on the broken bolt, but the second one (for double-nut technique) would not go on.:furious: Guess I had less of the bolt protruding than I thought.

So I grabbed some Red locktite and, being very, very careful, used a Q-tip to put some inside a nut and on tip of the bolt. I then spun the nut down on the protruding bolt. I did not get any threadlocker squashed up against the inner case.

  1. I will wait 24 hrs and see if the nut has sufficient adhesion to the bold to remove both with a 10mm socket. I'm guessing it won't work.


    I am trying this in a logical progression so that trying one solution doesn't eliminate my ability to go on to something else.

    Drum roll for tomorrow morning.

    Heck of a way to spend a vacation week.:headbang:
If the solid bolt broke off on the way out, it's not likely the locktite will work but it won't hurt anything. The problem is that if you heat the case to help, it's going to undo your locktite.

An option that we've seen work when you have some threads sticking out is to run a nut down it until it's almost to the case. Then weld the nut onto the stud. The stud will get pretty hot which should help. Consider using an inch pound torque wrench and limiting your effort to 100 inch/pounds if you want to prevent breaking it off again until you heat the case more, use more fluid, etc. But if you end up breaking it off again below the case, an experienced person can CAREFULLY drill the old stud out. The trick there is to grind the end flat with a die grinder and accurately center punch the stud. Then start with a bit about 1/3 the diamter of the stud. If you stray out into the aluminum, life will get much harder and depressing. Gradually step up to larger bits until you can just run a 6mm x 1.0 thread tap into the hole. The last resort is a heli-coil which is very secure when properly installed.

Often someone will resort to going to a larger hole in the case. That usually is a mess and should be avoided IMO.

Consider running a tap in all of the holes before you're finished and using anti seize on the bolts. When retighten the bolts, they don't hold the tracks onto a bulldozer. Search this site for torque values of commonly sized fasteners.
 

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Now that you have a bolt on the end, could you drill a small hole through the side of the nut and through the bolt, then put a pin through?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Snapped bolt on clutch actuator housing SOLVED

Well here goes...

Red Gel Locktite did not work--got up this morning, grabbed a 10mm socket and gave it a spin. No resistance worth talking about. For some reason, the sh*t did not harden much at all.:headbang:

Got two tap nuts.(since they are skinnier than normal nuts) and gave the double nuttz technique a try. Failure. Even after grinding down an old wrench to reduce its thickness, I could not turn the back nut only


Got on the net and started looking for "these little socket thingies that go over a bolt when they strip", to paraphrase one of my relatives...
After speaking to a few folks (and very nice they were) at Irwin Tools
I sourced a "7-piece Power Grip Set" from a local hardware.

Got home and realized that the smallest Power grip socket was too small, and the next size up was too big. BTW, they are not offered in metric sizes.

So I got my drill extender, put the SMALLEST Power Grip in it, and tightened as much as possible.

Held the extender with a Vice Grip and put it over the broken bolt. Tried the standard "Whack and Twist" maneuver and the Power Grip swallowed the protruding bolt in no time. All the way to the case face.

Put the extender (w/PowerGrip attached) on my drill, and the bolt came out slick as you please...:hurray:


I will no longer "Fear the Bolt"--I'll save that fear for Clowns.


Thanks for all the ideas. That's what the board is all about...
 

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Run a tap in there before putting in another bolt. I wonder if you had the wrong bolt before and bottomed it out.
 

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wonder if you had the wrong bolt before and bottomed it out.

My buddies' Stelvio is in the shop with an oil leak. They think the bolts may have been too long and bedded before a gasket got cinched evenly. Only takes a couple mm's and no good comes of it.
 
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