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Discussion Starter #1
06 Wee, 15 days not ridden left on battery tender. Thought it would start up immediately, had trouble starting but I did get it to start, barely

What else could it be that would cause it to have trouble firing up?

The next morning resting voltage was 12.9
 

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To zero in, did it crank and not run, did it crank slow, or did it not crank at all?
A Battery Tender is of no use if the battery cannot accept a charge, or provide full amperage capacity after being charged.
And "New" just means that--NEW, not necessarily good.
Ive had many tell me "The battery should be good, I charged it for 3 days." Means not a thing. It all starts--literally--with a good battery.
 

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I second MAZ4ME's comments. Additionally:

If the engine was unusually cold, there could be no problem that will outlast the cold spell. If the cranking was significantly slower than usual, that would be consistent with extra amperage required due to increased oil viscosity. Or, if the engine was not particularly cold, slow cranking could indicate battery resistance having increased near to the "useless for starting" point.

Since you have a voltmeter and a battery tender connection, you can use for former, connected to the latter, to assess battery resistance. The voltage should not drop below 5-6 Volts during cranking. Going below that would indicate excessive battery resistance or an extremely cold engine. If it was quite cold, I suggest waiting for warmer conditions before trouble-shooting (or even worrying much.)
BTW, "excess battery resistance" is approximately equivalent to the "cannot ... provide full amperage capacity" that MAZ4ME mentioned.
 

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I had to move a bike out in the sun on a cold Flagstaff morning to get the bike warm enough. It was BMW though.
I've had the Wee Strom occasionally mis start on some mornings. Then I had to open the throttle to get it happy.
Mine usually show 12.4 12.6 at a rest.
 

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My DR350 lives on a Cycle Gear branded battery tender-type maintainer. In the cold of winter it cranks slow & won't start when I try. I sit my Mr Buddy propane heater under the engine for 10 minutes & it'll fire right up. This with 10W-40 oil.
 

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I second MAZ4ME's comments. Additionally:

If the engine was unusually cold, there could be no problem that will outlast the cold spell. If the cranking was significantly slower than usual, that would be consistent with extra amperage required due to increased oil viscosity. Or, if the engine was not particularly cold, slow cranking could indicate battery resistance having increased near to the "useless for starting" point.

Since you have a voltmeter and a battery tender connection, you can use for former, connected to the latter, to assess battery resistance. The voltage should not drop below 5-6 Volts during cranking. Going below that would indicate excessive battery resistance or an extremely cold engine. If it was quite cold, I suggest waiting for warmer conditions before trouble-shooting (or even worrying much.)
BTW, "excess battery resistance" is approximately equivalent to the "cannot ... provide full amperage capacity" that MAZ4ME mentioned.
Trepidator the minimum accepted cranking voltage for an injected is 10.0 VDC for 15 seconds at room temp, 9.5VDC for a carbureted engine for 15 seconds. I havent seen a 12V starting system that would crank an engine at 5-6 volts.
 

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12.9V is perfect, sounds like a full charged battery. Did it crank strong and normal? If so you don’t have to worry about the battery.
 

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Trepidator the minimum accepted cranking voltage for an injected is 10.0 VDC for 15 seconds at room temp, 9.5VDC for a carbureted engine for 15 seconds. I havent seen a 12V starting system that would crank an engine at 5-6 volts.
At room temperature, (or typical heated garage or shop temperature), less voltage drop during cranking should be expected. But those are ideal conditions, where the starter motor can approach its unloaded RPM and draw much less current than is needed during cold conditions.

A better assessment of battery resistance is how much the battery voltage drops when the headlights are on versus off, or at high-beam flash (all filaments driven) versus off or low beam. That is a more repeatable load than cranking voltage. It would be useful to have figures for those drops with the V-Strom.

When I get back to mine, I will take a look at cold-cranking voltage and headlight load drop for a battery near its end-of-useful-life. (I know it's getting there because, after 5+ years of use on its first battery, most of it commuting, cranking has gotten sluggish on colder days.)
 

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"cranking has gotten sluggish on colder days.)"

Mine did similarly and it was 7-8 years old. Not dead but acting like a wounded senior citizen. It was a Walmart Everstart.
 

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"cranking has gotten sluggish on colder days.)"

Mine did similarly and it was 7-8 years old. Not dead but acting like a wounded senior citizen. It was a Walmart Everstart.
To my knowledge, nobody has found a practical way to keep internal resistance from gradually increasing in competitively sized batteries. They are built with electrodes having a grid structure, which is done to get the surface area to volume (and weight) ratio up. (Surface area is inversely proportional to resistance for a given chemistry.) The problem is that, as material is removed from and deposited upon the grids, during charge and discharge, (which is an intrinsic part of the electro-chemical energy conversion process), the grid area is reduced.

The dang ions will not just reconstitute the high-area grid when they deposit on it as when they were removed. Instead, the electrode gets blobby, some portions of it get thin and break off, and the grid intersections grow at the expense of the finer connections between them. This degradation is pretty much proportional to total charge movement during actual discharge and actual charge. (I neglect the effect of deep versus partial discharge cycles. The former are worse, but atypical.)
 

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It could have read 14 volts BUT not had the power (amperage) to turn the motor over correctly to start it.
Check the age of that battery!!

Good volt read does not mean the battery is healthy.
Need a load test as well.
AND if the battery is over 3 year old - replace it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Battery was replaced April last year Xtreme AGM Battery for Yuasa YTX12BS.

I will check voltage on start up and running volts, but since that first try after having sat there, it fires right up.

It always had started stronger after sitting on the trickle charger.

Maybe the manufacturer only offers a one year warranty for a reason.
 

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Also

Also, check your tender. Check the voltage when it indicates charging. Sounds like the battery was partially discharged the first time.

Just changed a 6-year-old truck battery. Resting voltage was fine. But it would barely crank. New battery, no problems.

Normally a less-than-year-old battery wouldn't be suspect. But if it was undercharged and you started the bike, may have prematurely damaged it. AGM batteries tend to less sensitive to deep-discharge than normal wet cells, but they can still be damaged. I've done it myself.:wink2:
 

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I haven't had a Yuasa fail prematurely though I have had cheaper Chinese batteries fail on a couple occasions.
I have had Yuasa's fail in less than 2 years. All kept on a tender when parked. All were non OEM Yuasa's. I have gone to replacing batteries every 3-4 years as a routine and utilize generic batteries since, at least in my hands, the more expensive Yuasa's are not worth the money.
 

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If the engine is turning over quickly enough and fails to start right away, try opening throttle gradually to 50% or even 75% while it is turning over. Works for me in the cold (esp temps around or below freezing)
 

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At room temperature, (or typical heated garage or shop temperature), less voltage drop during cranking should be expected. But those are ideal conditions, where the starter motor can approach its unloaded RPM and draw much less current than is needed during cold conditions.

A better assessment of battery resistance is how much the battery voltage drops when the headlights are on versus off, or at high-beam flash (all filaments driven) versus off or low beam. That is a more repeatable load than cranking voltage. It would be useful to have figures for those drops with the V-Strom.

When I get back to mine, I will take a look at cold-cranking voltage and headlight load drop for a battery near its end-of-useful-life. (I know it's getting there because, after 5+ years of use on its first battery, most of it commuting, cranking has gotten sluggish on colder days.)

Sorry, I RESPECTFULLY disagree.
Headlight filament load comes into play such as leaving them on for 30 sconds after fully charging the battery so as to remove surface charge.
I dont try to charge and check a battery when it's below room temperature. I bring it in, charge the battery for 1/10th the amp-hr rating of the battery for 10 hours. Then I turn on the ignition and headlamps for 30 seconds, then allow the battery to rest for 2 minutes after which I test the battery.
Yes, 10 hours isnt convenient for many. But a good battery can lose 50% of its cold cranking amperage as its temperature approaches zero. Couple that with the higher internal cranking friction of a cold engine, and you can easily have a slow- or no-crank condition.
Most battery testers these days extrapolate CCA by measuring battery internal resistance, not by applying a load (such as a carbon-pile) as was done in years past.
Instead of the electronic testers I use there is an easy method of determining battery status: Measure voltage of the battery during a 15-second crank with ignition disabled after charging. Room temp, charge the battery at 1/10th battery amp-hour rating for 10 hours. Measure charging voltage(meter clamps on charger clamps). If at any time the the charging voltage exceeds 16 VDC the battery cannot be charged.
As posted above, you can have 12.6 rest voltage, but not enough current capacity to operate the starter motor.
In "The Old Days", there were 2 other methods" 1) load-test the battery at 3 times the amp-hour rating of the battery. 2) Measure cranking voltage at the battery. Using a carbon pile across the battery to bring battery voltage down to 9.6VDC(carb engine, 10.0VDC FI engine and measure the amperage required(Like my old Sun VAT40). Recharge the battery and apply 2 times that amperage reading to the carbon pile for 15 seconds.
The easiest, cheapest way--outside of running the battery to Auto Zone for testing-- is to purchase a digital battery tester, such as the Yuasa YUA00BTY01 or equivalent. Then you know.
Also, dont forget charging system and voltage drop testing.
 

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Sorry, I RESPECTFULLY disagree.
Headlight filament load comes into play such as leaving them on for 30 sconds after fully charging the battery so as to remove surface charge.
It is unclear which of my assertions you contend are false.

I do not doubt that the headlight load can serves the purpose you just stated. But I do not see how (or why) you disagree that it can also serve as a repeatable load with which one can assess battery resistance using a DMM.

I dont try to charge and check a battery when it's below room temperature. I bring it in, charge the battery for 1/10th the amp-hr rating of the battery for 10 hours. Then I turn on the ignition and headlamps for 30 seconds, then allow the battery to rest for 2 minutes after which I test the battery.
Yes, 10 hours isnt convenient for many. But a good battery can lose 50% of its cold cranking amperage as its temperature approaches zero. Couple that with the higher internal cranking friction of a cold engine, and you can easily have a slow- or no-crank condition.
Why, yes, 10 hours on a charger would be inconvenient for somebody trying to figure out whether to buy a new battery. This would be especially true if they only had a battery tender rather than a higher power charger. And at my house, bringing the bike inside (from the carport) to let it soak at room temperature would be both inconvenient and quite objectionable to my wife. And certainly, when I cannot get it started, it could be quite inconvenient to get the bike to a shop where those procedures can be performed and specialized instruments applied.
My posts on this subject, and the suggestions therein, are aimed at the poor would-be rider whose bike is kaput and out in the cold and who wonders if it is time to replace the battery. Many in that position have or can readily obtain a DMM, which can be had for $10-20 these days. A diagnostic procedure relying only on that instrument would be quite an improvement, in many (and I dare say most) circumstances over what you seem to be holding out as the right method.
If your disagreement is founded on some idea that using the headlights as a load for stimulus so that voltage drop can be observed is impractical or somehow unable to reveal useful information, please detail the technical basis for that view.

Most battery testers these days extrapolate CCA by measuring battery internal resistance, not by applying a load (such as a carbon-pile) as was done in years past.
I dare venture that, deep in your fancy battery tester, there will be a varying load of some kind which will be applied when measuring battery internal resistance. (And I wonder how you are so sure they do not apply a load. Have you studied the tester schematics?)

Instead of the electronic testers I use there is an easy method of determining battery status: Measure voltage of the battery during a 15-second crank with ignition disabled after charging. Room temp, charge the battery at 1/10th battery amp-hour rating for 10 hours. Measure charging voltage(meter clamps on charger clamps). If at any time the the charging voltage exceeds 16 VDC the battery cannot be charged.
As posted above, you can have 12.6 rest voltage, but not enough current capacity to operate the starter motor.
Nobody is questioning whether battery resting voltage alone is sufficient to diagnose battery problems. As for the rest, it seems like a fine shop procedure to me (provided I am not asked to pay too much for that 10 hours of soak/charge time.)

In "The Old Days", there were 2 other methods" 1) load-test the battery at 3 times the amp-hour rating of the battery. 2) Measure cranking voltage at the battery. Using a carbon pile across the battery to bring battery voltage down to 9.6VDC(carb engine, 10.0VDC FI engine and measure the amperage required(Like my old Sun VAT40). Recharge the battery and apply 2 times that amperage reading to the carbon pile for 15 seconds.
The easiest, cheapest way--outside of running the battery to Auto Zone for testing-- is to purchase a digital battery tester, such as the Yuasa YUA00BTY01 or equivalent. Then you know.
I find such faith in those instruments to be touching. I suppose that, once you have forked over a few hundred bucks for one, you had better believe what it says. I'm pretty sure that a DMM, together with a valid (but not shop-favored) procedure can deliver equally reliable diagnosis and cost less. But I'll grant your "easiest", provided that the instrument need not be used only at room temperature (which can be anything but easy to arrange.)

I submit another perspective on the battery temperature during testing: When a hoping-to-be-rider's bike will not start, assessing the battery's ability to impress voltage across the starter motor at the very temperature for which starting was desired will provide the best measure of how well that battery is performing under the pertinent conditions. No extrapolation is needed, either from much lower load currents (whether they be hidden in a "tester" or not) or from a much different temperature. By eliminating extrapolation (which is a much disfavored operation in technical and scientific work), several sources of error are entirely eliminated.

Also, dont forget charging system and voltage drop testing.
Well, we seem to have focused on voltage drop testing rather than forgetting it. I agree that starting and apparent battery issues may arise from charging system behavior or misbehavior. So we should be sure not to overlook that subsystem. (I saw nothing that made it relevant in this thread.)
 

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I have had Yuasa's fail in less than 2 years. All kept on a tender when parked. All were non OEM Yuasa's. I have gone to replacing batteries every 3-4 years as a routine and utilize generic batteries since, at least in my hands, the more expensive Yuasa's are not worth the money.
I’ve interestingly had the opposite experience, my cheaper bought batteries all failed prematurely......YUASA has never let me down.
 
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