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Seriously good post, Fryman....:thumbup:
ATGATT Explained
Didn't see this posted anywhere else here so I though I'd post it up. Definetly worth a listen although I know everyone here already knows what she has to say...
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+1 Fyrman.
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Another +1 Fyrman
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Yep, I like it. The comment about insurance premiums is interesting. Can definitely imagine a situation where excesses go up depending on what you wear, which is probably fair if premiums go down in general to compensate. I'm definitely guilty of wearing inappropriate footwear to an extent, I never rise without fully closed leather shoes; maybe I should re-examine this attitude. I sure see a lot of people in thongs around here in summer though.
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Thanks for that video it was worthwhile IMHO. I do feel I knew this being a ATGATT kind of person but never saw this video. We should all send it on to our favorite gear manufacturer or do they already know what a lot of us don't. Blah blah blah.
I saw a guy riding along in the diamond lane here in California today at about 70 mph with no gloves in shorts and it hurt me, it really did as sappy as that sounds ... blah blah .... I think age may have a wee bit to do with it.
Loud pipes are just that - loud and nothing else.
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592 Posts
Working as a firefighter I've had way to many opportunities to see the results of riding with and without ATGATT, in fact, as recently as last week. An obviously young and most likely new rider buried his Ninja under the arse end of a Jeep Cherokee and was only able to walk away because of a full compliment of Joe Rocket gear. The funny part was the morons that stopped their bikes to help and then stood around chatting in their muscle shirts, shorts and flip-flops. I like to call them "Doners". Hopefully they signed their doner card...
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Thanks.
It's nice to have my hunches backed up with empirical data.
It's nice to have my hunches backed up with empirical data.
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I wear (almost) all of the gear all of the time. I don't wear motorcycle pants with body armor because I can't find them in my size (46 waist, 31 inseam). Instead, I wear Fire Hose Work Pants from Duluth Trading Company. These pants have great abrasion protection. They advertise that they have been tested in motorcycle crashes. I have personally tested them myself (not recommended that you try this) and they held up well with no burn through in a low side. I wish I could get them with motorcycle specific armor. I do own a pair of hard knee/shin armor for dirt riding but can't stand wearing them. The elastic abrades by legs (worst behind my knees). If anyone has ideas of how to wear armor with my pants I am open to suggestions (the Bohn armor doesn't come in my size either). My riding coats are armored. I own one pair of armored gloves and haven't been wearing them because I didn't know if the armor helped and they are butt ugly. After listening to this report, I will start. I always wear a pair of work boots or a pair of motorcycle boots (I switch them out to keep the stench down). And even though I live in a helmet optional state, I always have one on my head. The helmet recently saved me as I slammed my head hard against the pavement during my low side.
I am glad we have a formal study on what works. This is making me reconsider some of my riding gear that I wear (and adds concern about my choice of riding pants).
So, does anyone have suggestions for armored pants or armor that can go under the pants I now ride in? I guess I also need to add that I am retired and am on a fixed income (social security plus the income from my 401K) so that leaves the really expensive stuff like the BMW line out. I am kind of stuck for an answer.
I am glad we have a formal study on what works. This is making me reconsider some of my riding gear that I wear (and adds concern about my choice of riding pants).
So, does anyone have suggestions for armored pants or armor that can go under the pants I now ride in? I guess I also need to add that I am retired and am on a fixed income (social security plus the income from my 401K) so that leaves the really expensive stuff like the BMW line out. I am kind of stuck for an answer.
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Does anyone seriously doubt that protective gear reduces injury? Not me!! The problem I have is that when people start to think they must MAKE someone else do something for their own good (seatbelt or helmet laws for example) Thats when I start being unhappy. Wear your helmet for heaven's sake, but skip the laws. Same with seatbelts.
I wear shorts when I ride in warm months, I go without gloves occasionally, and my sneakers are worn in warmer weather, and it is my business, and no one else's. I have had riders compain behind my back, never to my face-- about my riding apparel. I would suggest they ride their bike and let me ride mine. If I get hurt I promise not to whine or blame someone else.
I broke an ankle a few years ago, while roofing my garage. If I had been wearing motocross boots I wouldn't have gotten hurt--but I am not going to wear motocross boots while roofing my garage. You can't cover every eventuality for your entire life--you assess your daily risks and address them in the way that suits YOU.
I wear shorts when I ride in warm months, I go without gloves occasionally, and my sneakers are worn in warmer weather, and it is my business, and no one else's. I have had riders compain behind my back, never to my face-- about my riding apparel. I would suggest they ride their bike and let me ride mine. If I get hurt I promise not to whine or blame someone else.
I broke an ankle a few years ago, while roofing my garage. If I had been wearing motocross boots I wouldn't have gotten hurt--but I am not going to wear motocross boots while roofing my garage. You can't cover every eventuality for your entire life--you assess your daily risks and address them in the way that suits YOU.
GREAT THREAD
ALWAYS helmet and jacket. One for fall/spring and one for summer. Total cost? $200. Open face, closed face. Total cost? $200 Big effen deal!
Fourth ride and the bike drops me (yeah, the biked did it!). Drop, roll, jump up. Felt absolutely nothing even though it was gravel.
Is it worth it? I won't ride without them even when I go to meetings.
Now, if anyone knows where the heck I can find good, reasonably priced pants to suit a 31 inseam 250 pounder and extra, extra wide size 9.5 boots, let me know. Yeah, I'm a troll.........
ALWAYS helmet and jacket. One for fall/spring and one for summer. Total cost? $200. Open face, closed face. Total cost? $200 Big effen deal!
Fourth ride and the bike drops me (yeah, the biked did it!). Drop, roll, jump up. Felt absolutely nothing even though it was gravel.
Is it worth it? I won't ride without them even when I go to meetings.
Now, if anyone knows where the heck I can find good, reasonably priced pants to suit a 31 inseam 250 pounder and extra, extra wide size 9.5 boots, let me know. Yeah, I'm a troll.........
First of all, I'm a conservative with an huge aversion to nanny state. Live and let live!
Just one curiosity question. In every case where one goes down, the first thing to hit the ground is usually the hands. Why not gloves? Shorts, t-shirt I can see because of extreme heat, but gloves? Even as something as simple and sweat free as mesh bicylce gloves?
Just curious......
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1,407 Posts
.
Well, we could let this thread gravitate in the direction of social/political philosophy, personal freedoms, and that holy phrase "personal responsibility" [which has a lot of slogan-power, but little actual meaning, once you think it through].
But should we go that way on the topic of ATGATT ?
To state the obvious :- everybody wants personal freedom, but nobody wants to pay for the expenses of (other people's) hospitals clogged up with quadriplegics, or for the tax expense of payments to other people's widows & orphans i.e. the relatives of people who exercised their Constitutional freedom to shirk the personal responsibility of taking out full insurance.
The real world has an awful lot of shades of gray in it : and it would be horrifyingly foolish to compel absolute ATGATT (including orthopedic-like knee-braces, neck-brace, & inflatable vest) - just as it would be foolish to advocate/compel the legal freedom to drink-drive and/or cellphone-text while out on the public road.
What is a reasonable compromise point between these extremes?
What is cost-effective - not in terms of dollars, but in terms of maximizing benefit, for minimal inconvenience?
For a car, that is easy to point to : the ancient-but-highly-effective seatbelt. Takes three seconds to put on. Equals zero hassle. Or should it only be compulsory for passengers?
For a motorbike : easy again - the helmet, though slightly more of a hassle [about equal to putting on shoes]. Again, only for the pillion passenger? That's arguable - but not very.
Of course, the frequency of deaths/injuries/disablements should influence your social/political decisions, too.
If each state had only 7 cars and 3 motorcycles, then it would be reasonable to treat the whole matter as insignificant (relative to all the other stuff going on).
Similarly, with people repairing their own roof - the number of geezers [old or young geezers] falling off the ladder and breaking a leg [but well recovered in 3 months] is a small matter compared our real-world deaths & injuries on the road.
But ATGATT itself is the heart of the thread.
What is effective, that we can use as our personal choice?
Helmet and gloves are so fundamental, that they hardly need any comment.
And if you have good protection on your knees and elbows, and some general leather / Kevlar / nylon coverage against road-rash, then is that the reasonable personal-choice minimum?
.
Well, we could let this thread gravitate in the direction of social/political philosophy, personal freedoms, and that holy phrase "personal responsibility" [which has a lot of slogan-power, but little actual meaning, once you think it through].
But should we go that way on the topic of ATGATT ?
To state the obvious :- everybody wants personal freedom, but nobody wants to pay for the expenses of (other people's) hospitals clogged up with quadriplegics, or for the tax expense of payments to other people's widows & orphans i.e. the relatives of people who exercised their Constitutional freedom to shirk the personal responsibility of taking out full insurance.
The real world has an awful lot of shades of gray in it : and it would be horrifyingly foolish to compel absolute ATGATT (including orthopedic-like knee-braces, neck-brace, & inflatable vest) - just as it would be foolish to advocate/compel the legal freedom to drink-drive and/or cellphone-text while out on the public road.
What is a reasonable compromise point between these extremes?
What is cost-effective - not in terms of dollars, but in terms of maximizing benefit, for minimal inconvenience?
For a car, that is easy to point to : the ancient-but-highly-effective seatbelt. Takes three seconds to put on. Equals zero hassle. Or should it only be compulsory for passengers?
For a motorbike : easy again - the helmet, though slightly more of a hassle [about equal to putting on shoes]. Again, only for the pillion passenger? That's arguable - but not very.
Of course, the frequency of deaths/injuries/disablements should influence your social/political decisions, too.
If each state had only 7 cars and 3 motorcycles, then it would be reasonable to treat the whole matter as insignificant (relative to all the other stuff going on).
Similarly, with people repairing their own roof - the number of geezers [old or young geezers] falling off the ladder and breaking a leg [but well recovered in 3 months] is a small matter compared our real-world deaths & injuries on the road.
But ATGATT itself is the heart of the thread.
What is effective, that we can use as our personal choice?
Helmet and gloves are so fundamental, that they hardly need any comment.
And if you have good protection on your knees and elbows, and some general leather / Kevlar / nylon coverage against road-rash, then is that the reasonable personal-choice minimum?
.
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Seems so out of place, doesn't it?! :yesnod:
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A first for me, being called a troll. Admin, delete my posts in this thread if needed please.
That question about the pants/armor was a serious question but I will just let it go. I wear all the riding gear that I can afford/find in my size. My personal choice. You make your own choices, ride in shorts, tee shirt, flip flops if you want to. That doesn't affect me as you are making your own choices. Live with the results. I went down this past Friday and am (probably) a little hyperaware of the possibilities.
I did not intend to stir things at all.
Did you misunderstand what I wrote? Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote here? I did NOT call YOU a troll, I was referring to myself because of my extra extra wide, extra extra large everything. My university weight when I ran 5 miles every second day was 235 pounds....in a 5'10" height.
The last sentence of my previous post was a very serious question. I can't find extra, extra wide boots that fit me so I'm forced to wear WalCrap boots. As for pants, the ones that fit me have a 38 inch inseams and look like I just got out of jail.
I blame my mother for all this......:green_lol:
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I am sorry. I must have misread what you posted but I can answer one of your questions. I have lost 87 pounds in the past year and a half. Before the weight loss, I had to wear wide boots. I have a pair of Harley Davidson boots that are extra wide. I have had the heels replaced on them when they wore out as they are very, very comfortable. I usually don't wear pirate clothing but this time I made the exception. Not too many people look closely at my boots so I can put up with them.
Did you misunderstand what I wrote? Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote here? I did NOT call YOU a troll, I was referring to myself because of my extra extra wide, extra extra large everything. My university weight when I ran 5 miles every second day was 235 pounds....in a 5'10" height.
The last sentence of my previous post was a very serious question. I can't find extra, extra wide boots that fit me so I'm forced to wear WalCrap boots. As for pants, the ones that fit me have a 38 inch inseams and look like I just got out of jail.
I blame my mother for all this......:green_lol:
As to the pants, maybe someone will come up with an answer. Maybe, just maybe the company will be one that does big and tall motorcycle gear.
Don't know about the boots, but the pants can probably be had from Motoport. I'm 6'6" and thin. 38" inseam is barely long enough, but Motoport made a pair of pants to fit me. It's not cheap, but they are very well made & comfortable.
As for pants, the ones that fit me have a 38 inch inseams and look like I just got out of jail. :
The usual "I have no relation with them besides being a satified customer....." does apply.
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