Assessing the damage 08 650. no valve shims still does not clear within spec

4878 Views 89 Replies 21 Participants Last post by Rehcie, 3 mo ago

conquermike

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

So while doing my valve clearance on a new to me bike, it seems as though the front cylinder was especially friction-y. I measured 0 clearance.

When I took of the chain tensioner, the chain remained super tight, which made me think that possibly the Valves are really jammed against the camshaft.

Took off the camshaft journal and had to criss cross the screws for much longer than the rear head, the camshaft was really pressed tight against the journal. Pulled the tappet to check the numbers on the shim, noticed they were actually super worn and had lots of wear marks. Sounds like loose valve symptoms right? Well....

For kicks I reinstalled the tappets without any shims. Timed the chain and camshaft, reinstalled chain tensioner.

Turn over the crankshaft twice and measure clearance...not within spec sadly. Couldn't fit 0.10mm.

New valve time, right? Anything else this could be?

Bike runs "great" but the front head is noisy. Sounds slappy and has a loud ring to it upon startup

Mike

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conquermike

Discussion Starter · #21 · 3 mo ago

Dark Angel said:
I really wouldn't ride it like that. There's a high chance you'll stick a valve through the piston.

I agree, my course of action is to get the smallest shims available to try to open the gap as much as possible while I prepare to rebuilt the cylinder head

Hogges

· #22 · 3 mo ago

TDC is when you have the biggest gap. If I understand you right you say there is more space when you are not at TDC. This is impossible. Which to me can only mean that you need to look again to find the true TDC.

Reactions: 3

HokiesRWee

· #23 · 3 mo ago

Hogges said:
TDC is when you have the biggest gap. If I understand you right you say there is more space when you are not at TDC. This is impossible. Which to me can only mean that you need to look again to find the true TDC.

Yeah, I didn’t understand those OP comments, either.

I think that, when the cam lobe is pressing against the bucket, there should, of course, be no gap. When the lobe is directly opposite the bucket (rotated 180 degrees), there should be a gap.

Also, I didn’t see the OP mention mileage (though someone did).

Reactions: 1

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #24 · 3 mo ago

Hogges said:
TDC is when you have the biggest gap. If I understand you right you say there is more space when you are not at TDC. This is impossible. Which to me can only mean that you need to look again to find the true TDC.

thanks for pointing this out clearly, I will double check the service repair manual and make sure I'm following the procedure.

Reactions: 1

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #25 · 3 mo ago

Hogges said:
TDC is when you have the biggest gap. If I understand you right you say there is more space when you are not at TDC. This is impossible. Which to me can only mean that you need to look again to find the true TDC.

After reviewing the instructions, I followed them correctly as far as aligning the indexing mark with the F| for front and |R for rear in the inspection hole but I dont recall my cams being in that position, will double check this afternoon

Reactions: 1

stickerbush

· #26 · 3 mo ago

conquermike said:
There are some super sticky parts of the crankshaft rotation where I can hear what sounds like decompression happening in the front cylinder (my problem cylinder).

This is expected when you don't remove a spark plug before trying to rotate the motor.

Reactions: 2

stickerbush

· #27 · 3 mo ago

@conquermike I find this to be a great adjunct to the service manual when adjusting valves.

circlenz.co.nz

Suzuki V-Strom DL650 Valve Check and Adjustment tutorial - CircleNZ

Our simple step by step illustrated tutorial showing you how to make a valve check and adjustment on a Suzuki V-Strom DL650…

circlenz.co.nz

Reactions: 1

TinMan88

· #28 · 3 mo ago

D.T. said:
Camshaft(s) could be bent!

WHAT?!
Most improbable

TinMan88

· #29 · 3 mo ago

conquermike said:
I agree, my course of action is to get the smallest shims available to try to open the gap as much as possible while I prepare to rebuilt the cylinder head

You are getting way ahead of yourself there. Please review the mechanical timing of the parts. The proper mark on the crank must be coincident with the marks on both cams as pictured in the manual. If you have lifted the cams out while they depress the valves you are in the next orbit of trouble. This job is sequential in an order. When done in the order, there are no surprises in an engine that was running.

Reactions: 2

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #30 · 3 mo ago

stickerbush said:
This is expected when you don't remove a spark plug before trying to rotate the motor.

Roger that, will remove the plugs and hope that eliminates the friction when turning the crankshaft manually

Akula61

· #31 · 3 mo ago

Even the smallest bend on the camshaft? Would cause engine shake/noise like a MoFo....No?

Mike, did you pull the head in question yet? Maybe something is not releasing/binding?

Good luck

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #32 · 3 mo ago

TinMan88 said:
You are getting way ahead of yourself there. Please review the mechanical timing of the parts. The proper mark on the crank must be coincident with the marks on both cams as pictured in the manual. If you have lifted the cams out while they depress the valves you are in the next orbit of trouble. This job is sequential in an order. When done in the order, there are no surprises in an engine that was running.

Just so I understand, the "F|" marking, when aligned with the mark on the inspection hole, does not always indicate that the cams will be in the correct position? I may need to continue rotating the crankshaft until both the F| AND the cams are in the correct position?

Reactions: 2

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #33 · 3 mo ago

Akula61 said:
Even the smallest bend on the camshaft? Would cause engine shake/noise like a MoFo....No?

Mike, did you pull the head in question yet? Maybe something is not releasing/binding?

Good luck

So it seems as though I interpreted the instructions in the service manual incorrectly. I assumed based on what I read that the cams would always be in the correct position if the crankshaft was in position for TDC. I didn't understand that I may need to rotate the camshaft 360 degrees several times until the cams are also correct.

Stay tuned!
Ps. Also I hope your rear shock is living it's best life at sasquatch!

Reactions: 1

Motorpsychology

· #34 · 3 mo ago

Something is not in its position if there is no gap at TDC. Double check your manual.:

Are the intake and exhaust cams in the proper place (not reversed)? They are marked IN and EX. Not trying to insult you, but just looking for clues.
Are you sure the cams are at the proper position when the flywheel is at TDC?
Are the cams aligned with the mating surface of the head as it is specified?
Are there the proper number of cam chain links between the marks on the cams?

Reactions: 2

stickerbush

· #35 · 3 mo ago

conquermike said:
Just so I understand, the "F|" marking, when aligned with the mark on the inspection hole, does not always indicate that the cams will be in the correct position? I may need to continue rotating the crankshaft until both the F| AND the cams are in the correct position?

Correct. There are two top dead center positions, one for compression stroke and one for exhaust stroke. At TDC on exhaust stroke the cam lobe will be holding the exhaust valve open. At TDC on compression stroke, valves will be fully closed and this is the position for adjusting valve clearance.

Reactions: 5

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #36 · 3 mo ago

Motorpsychology said:
Something is not in its position if there is no gap at TDC. Double check your manual.:

Are the intake and exhaust cams in the proper place (not reversed)? They are marked IN and EX. Not trying to insult you, but just looking for clues.

Are you sure the cams are at the proper position when the flywheel is at TDC?

Are the cams aligned with the mating surface of the head as it is specified?

Are there the proper number of cam chain links between the marks on the cams?

You are correct, yourself and others have enlightened me to something I missed in the manual where I may need to rotate the crankshaft 360 degrees several times until the cams are in position. They were not in position, unfortunately I did remove the cams while they were pressed against the valve tappet, but I was super careful and took pics to ensure they were reinstalled as they were removed

Reactions: 1

TinMan88

· #37 · 3 mo ago

conquermike said:
Just so I understand, the "F|" marking, when aligned with the mark on the inspection hole, does not always indicate that the cams will be in the correct position? I may need to continue rotating the crankshaft until both the F| AND the cams are in the correct position?

Yes. Understand the sequence. The crank can go round and round but it is only in the correct place when the hash marks on the camshafts coincide with the correct mark on crank rotation. At that point the crank must not move again . When the cams are removed and replaced they will reflect the same marks aligned with the gasket surface as before. Any discrepancy with this alignment on re-assembly indicates a part out of sequence.

Reactions: 3

TinMan88

· #38 · 3 mo ago

Akula61 said:
Even the smallest bend on the camshaft? Would cause engine shake/noise like a MoFo....No?

Mike, did you pull the head in question yet? Maybe something is not releasing/binding?

Good luck

There is nothing in the assembled parts that would bend a hardened camshaft without being involved in a total wipeout.

Reactions: 3

D.T.

· #39 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Well, it is your first time I assume and you are at least trying.

I probably made a lot of mistakes, but sometimes the you have to learn the hard way. We all have different circumstances.

All the info you need is probably here already.

www.stromtrooper.com

DL650 Valve Adjustment Notes and Tips

This zipped Word document contains several pages of notes that I prepared after completing the first valve adjustment on my DL650. It is a compilation of suggestions from other posters and my own tips and observations. It is meant as an adjunct to the Workshop Manual, certainly not a...

www.stromtrooper.com

www.stromtrooper.com

circlenz.co.nz

Suzuki V-Strom DL650 Valve Check and Adjustment tutorial - CircleNZ

Our simple step by step illustrated tutorial showing you how to make a valve check and adjustment on a Suzuki V-Strom DL650…

circlenz.co.nz

Reactions: 1

conquermike

Discussion Starter · #40 · 3 mo ago

D.T. said:
Well, it is your first time I assume and you are at least trying.

I probably made a lot of mistakes, but sometimes the you have to learn the hard way. We all have different circumstances.

All the info you need is probably here already.

DL650 Valve Adjustment Notes and Tips

This zipped Word document contains several pages of notes that I prepared after completing the first valve adjustment on my DL650. It is a compilation of suggestions from other posters and my own tips and observations. It is meant as an adjunct to the Workshop Manual, certainly not a...

www.stromtrooper.com

Suzuki V-Strom DL650 Valve Check and Adjustment tutorial - CircleNZ

Our simple step by step illustrated tutorial showing you how to make a valve check and adjustment on a Suzuki V-Strom DL650…

circlenz.co.nz

Yup first time! I bought the bike sight unseen for $1500 from a friend based on the reputation for longevity.

I'm going to take another whack at it in about an hour and will hopefully have better news to report!

Was really hoping to just use the service repair manual as a resource but with its suggestion to merely lift the tank for this job, it evidently falls short sometimes.

Reactions: 1

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