[richw]

Preamble

The bumper of my Van is a little twisted from hitting the rear end of a pickup..

My Van ABS PREVENTED the truck from stopping. One caliper jamed so it wouldn't slow that wheel. The ABS PREVENTED the other wheel from applying its brake. Fortunately the rears slowed us enough where it wasn't a big deal....

so

If your bike is on REAL slippery surface can you stop at all or will it just coast into whatever is in front of you. If the wheel wanted to slip everytime it tried to stop would it just keep going?

I certainly believe that our car ABS definitely INCREASES the stopping distance of my cars in slush etc.

 

[SCraig]

Congratulations. You have just found out why I absolutely refuse to have ABS on a bike. I've had that happen to me far too many times in a car to even consider having ABS on a bike.

 

[ph0rk]

If your bike is on REAL slippery surface can you stop at all or will it just coast into whatever is in front of you. If the wheel wanted to slip everytime it tried to stop would it just keep going?

I certainly believe that our car ABS definitely INCREASES the stopping distance of my cars in slush etc.

Yes ABS increases stopping distance... if you engage it.

The flipside is it lets you stay upright - if you break traction without it on two wheels how are you going to stay upright?

If you can brake without slipping you won't engage it, but I'd imagine that's pretty hard on a surface as slippery as you're talking about. Thing is, on a surface that slippery stopping at all is going to take a long time and even cornering will be a problem, so ABS will be the least of your worries.

 

[greywolf]

A jamming caliper is a maintenance issue. In well over 40 years of bike and car miles, I've never had a brake maintenance issue.

 

[keetmanaa]

When applying the rear brake, hoping to slow your descent down a steep hill with a loose dirt or gravel surface, ABS works against you.
Great for pavement; off road not so much.

 

[darkjedip]

Yea! another ABS debate!

No Wheelies Here: Why you need ABS

I used to find these discussions fun, but in reality there are two camps on this subject, and no one is changing tents.

 

[Stromin'Nroman]

The ABS PREVENTED the other wheel from applying its brake. Fortunately the rears slowed us enough where it wasn't a big deal....

It wasn't a big deal because of the ABS.

The ABS prevented your van from piroutting on the one locked front wheel.

Don't blame a safety feature for a lack of maintenance on your part.

The answer to you question is a matter of degrees and is directly related to tha amount of available traction. For the vast majority of riders, the ABS will keep a bike upright while stopping the bike safely when there is little or no traction for braking. Yes, your stopping distance will be greater because you're using the little bit of traction available to the relatively small contact patches of the tires intead of the much greater drag of handlebars and footpegs digging into the asphalt.

However, rear-ending another vehicle because you failed to maintain a safe following distance for conditions is always the ABS's fault.

 

[greywolf]

Rubber on the road has better traction than handlebars and footpegs. Every time somebody drops a bike by locking the brake, usually a rear lock often followed by a brake release and high side, and doesn't have the bike slide into the obstacle, I know a proper braking job would have saved the day. A proper job of braking will stop the bike way faster than dropping it will.

 

[honest bob]

The laws of physics/friction. A rolling tire has more friction than a sliding tire. (that is why it's still rolling):argue: It will therefore, decelerate/accelerate better, and change direction better. This can be untrue on a soft surface where the sliding tire can dig into the surface and create a larger friction patch plus dislodging the actual surface which increases friction.

 

[PTRider]

It wasn't a big deal because of the ABS.

The ABS prevented your van from pirouetting on the one locked front wheel.

+1

ABS isn't for shorter stopping distances. It is for control. With 4 wheels, it allows some steering (or keeping straight) while braking at the max. With 2 wheels, it may help keep you upright if you aren't turning (if you're turning and hammer the brakes, you're doomed no matter what). The ABS system can determine changes in road traction much faster than I can and adjust the braking level for that. Yes, ABS needs to be switched off for downhill on loose stuff.

 

[Scruit]

So, to get this straight... The brakes on your van are not in working order, and you therefore blame ABS for not being able to stop in time?


If the ABS is kicking in then it's because the tires are locking up. If you had no ABS then you'd have skidded into the back of the pickup instead.

And ABS didn't make you follow the pickup too closely pickup. :beatnik:

 

[SittingDuck]

[...]
My Van ABS PREVENTED the truck from stopping. One caliper jamed so it wouldn't slow that wheel. The ABS PREVENTED the other wheel from applying its brake. Fortunately the rears slowed us enough where it wasn't a big deal....
[...]

I'd be happy just calling you an idiot, but that would make me rude, so instead of that, I'll patiently explain where you are wrong:

1) ABS never prevents anything from stopping; it prevents wheels from locking. Also, a locked wheel (on pavement) takes up to 4 times more distance to stop than a wheel that's been prevented from locking by an ABS system.

2) One of your brake calipers jammed: that's poor maintenance on your (or your mechanic's) part; not having ABS would probably have caused your vehicle to spin out before hitting the vehicle in front of you (you would most probably still have hit).

3) "Fortunately the rears slowed us enough" is in contradiction with "The ABS prevented the other wheel from applying its brake". There are two kinds of ABS systems: the old crappy ones (1970's) that engage on the entire braking system (in which case your rear brakes would not have worked any more than your other front brake), and the new ones that operate on each wheel independently (in which case your other front brake would have worked just fine). So logically, one your two statements that I quoted has to be false. Anyone with minimal understanding of ABS technology and basic reasoning skills can see that.

What you're doing by believing that the ABS screwed you is ego-defensive behaviour: many people will shift the blame away from themselves (and perhaps onto technology) because it helps them avoid facing the fact that they are in fact a bad driver (something that does not fit with their beliefs).

So I guess it's time to re-evaluate your driving skills. Many driving schools will give refreshers in emergency manoeuvres to experienced drivers; I suggest you swallow your pride and contact one of them.

 

[Malikenya]

I wonder if there was a "traction control" feature involved?

One of those systems that monitors all the wheels and tries to keep you straight...not just from skidding. Wouldn't that would explain the rear brakes still functioning but preventing asymmetric front braking?

 

[Garbage Marc]

I'd be happy just calling you an idiot, but that would make me rude, so instead of that, I'll patiently explain where you are wrong:

1) ABS never prevents anything from stopping; it prevents wheels from locking. Also, a locked wheel (on pavement) takes up to 4 times more distance to stop than a wheel that's been prevented from locking by an ABS system.

2) One of your brake calipers jammed: that's poor maintenance on your (or your mechanic's) part; not having ABS would probably have caused your vehicle to spin out before hitting the vehicle in front of you (you would most probably still have hit).

3) "Fortunately the rears slowed us enough" is in contradiction with "The ABS prevented the other wheel from applying its brake". There are two kinds of ABS systems: the old crappy ones (1970's) that engage on the entire braking system (in which case your rear brakes would not have worked any more than your other front brake), and the new ones that operate on each wheel independently (in which case your other front brake would have worked just fine). So logically, one your two statements that I quoted has to be false. Anyone with minimal understanding of ABS technology and basic reasoning skills can see that.

What you're doing by believing that the ABS screwed you is ego-defensive behaviour: many people will shift the blame away from themselves (and perhaps onto technology) because it helps them avoid facing the fact that they are in fact a bad driver (something that does not fit with their beliefs).

So I guess it's time to re-evaluate your driving skills. Many driving schools will give refreshers in emergency manoeuvres to experienced drivers; I suggest you swallow your pride and contact one of them.

I think you say stupid shit just for attention both good and bad.

 

[ph0rk]

I think you say stupid shit just for attention both good and bad.

His statements have more face validity than the OP (and yours, of course).

Blaming ABS for a jammed caliper? Come on.


"This one time, I crashed into a car I was 0.5 seconds behind while doing 30 mph over the speed limit over black ice. The ABS must have made me crash!"

 

[Garbage Marc]

Let's see I drive a 50,000 lb automated garbage truck for a living and stop anywhere from 600 to 800 times a day on pavement, gravel and brick streets with ABS. So lets see I think I know a little about driving and stopping.:fineprint:

 

[SCraig]

... Blaming ABS for a jammed caliper? Come on. ...

Nothing wrong with my brakes and I've skated along slick streets and washboard streets because the damn ABS engaged more times than I can remember. Given a choice I would never own a vehicle with ABS. Nobody will ever convince me that ABS improves braking because I've been in far too many situations that proved otherwise. My personal opinion and I'm sticking with it.

 

[honest bob]

His statements have more face validity than the OP (and yours, of course).

Blaming ABS for a jammed caliper? Come on.


"This one time, I crashed into a car I was 0.5 seconds behind while doing 30 mph over the speed limit over black ice. The ABS must have made me crash!"

+1 phOrk:thumbup: He did mention he is a tad rude, but he is also a lot right.:yesnod:

 

[fender5803]

Nothing wrong with my brakes and I've skated along slick streets and washboard streets because the damn ABS engaged more times than I can remember. Given a choice I would never own a vehicle with ABS. Nobody will ever convince me that ABS improves braking because I've been in far too many situations that proved otherwise. My personal opinion and I'm sticking with it.

I am just glad that neither I or my family or friends live near you and your slipin and sliding or skating. You need to slow down and drive more defensively, carefully .....
I've been driving a long time and can still count with less than five fingers the times I've had to steer out of danger with or without any anti lock braking system. Not including winter snow storms i.e. fully snow covered roads. Believe me when I say I've had my fun driving, just a wee bit farther inside the envolope than you I guess, except for time on the tracks.

 

[griffin800]

ABS

ABS also does nothing for lousy decision making. Go too fast and follow too close in poor traction situations and the ABS isn't gonna save your butt. Learn to ride (drive) like an adult and maybe it will.

No fixing stupid.

Bill H.