StromTrooper banner

1 - 20 of 74 Posts

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I know that Dupont's teflon chain lube, (the blue can), is a popular product. I am aware that some have switched to the newer product, (yellow can).

I would like to share what has happened with me and using the Dupont product, (blue can).

I have been using the teflon lube since mid-spring. I have been happy with it; primarly because there is no "after mess", (fling off), as can happen with other lubricants.

But lately, I have been having problems with my drive train. Just before leaving on my James Bay trip, I decided that I would change both sprockets and chain. They were about due, and once I left home for James Bay, at least another 3,000 miles was going to be added to the old hardware. So, I installed brand new sprockets and a new chain. I figured and hoped the symptoms I was hearing and feeling would go away.

I am about 4,500 miles into the new setup. I have ridden my bike enough to know when something isn't "right". I have been hearing funny "chirping" sounds from the chain at speeds of 40mph and up. I have also been feeling vibrations as well. The bike just felt like it was "pulling" hard; just not as smooth as it has been.

I do clean my chain with kerosene somewhat regularly. I also clean the sprockets and around the countersprocket shaft. What I missed was the chain guide mounted on the swingarm just aft of the countersprocket.

First I want to share a couple of photographs I took while removing the old sprockets and chain before my trip.

Here is a photo of the front sprocket with the customary "forward hook" to the worn teeth.


Notice the road grime on the outboard face of the sprocket. Also notice the flat spots on the bottom, or "inside face" of the chain.

Now, check out the "motor side" of the countersprocket.


A good 1/32" has been "machined" away by my chain. Improperly aligned chain? Nope, (be patient, I will explain.).

Here is another shot of the chain showing the flat spots. Notice the black "tar - like" substance at the end of each flat spot on the links.


This same very tough and hard substance was "imbedded" into the grooves of my chain guide. Sand and other road grit was also collected in this substance; effectively wearing down and polishing the inside face of the chain. The substance is hard enough to act as a chain guide itself; redirecting my chain into the face of the sprocket.

I have just under 60,000 miles on this bike in almost 3 seasons of riding. I believe I am on my 5th set of sprockets and chain. I have experimented with a host of different chain lubes. I have liked and have recommeded the Dupont lube up until now.

Have I used too much? Possibly.

I am not saying it is a bad product. But, if you do use it, I suggest being vigilant on how you use it and check the chain guide for build up.

I have a feeling that the heat of the chain may change the structure of the teflon to then take on another "personality" and perform in a manner that is counterproductive to its original use.

At work today, I cleaned the build up out of the chain guide grooves. I lubed the chain with some air-tool oil. I will be making the switch back to chainsaw bar oil. It's been the best solution for me so far out of all of the lubes I have tried.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,613 Posts
As usual very informative and thorough. Something to think about.
I am surprised at 5 chains and sprockets in 60,000km. Wow!
My first chain and sprocket set were fine to about 35,000km, and only occasionally cleaned but lubed often with BelRay. With the new chain I switched to the Dupont Teflon product to avoid the gooey buildup thinking I eleimated a place for harmful dirt to accumulate. And now you give cause rethink.
The teflon stuff is cheap at Lowes and I use it liberally. Using is sometimes with a rag as a chain cleaner.
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
As usual very informative and thorough. Something to think about.
I am surprised at 5 chains and sprockets in 60,000km. Wow!
My first chain and sprocket set were fine to about 35,000km, and only occasionally cleaned but lubed often with BelRay. With the new chain I switched to the Dupont Teflon product to avoid the gooey buildup thinking I eleimated a place for harmful dirt to accumulate. And now you give cause rethink.
The teflon stuff is cheap at Lowes and I use it liberally. Using is sometimes with a rag as a chain cleaner.
There's a difference. You are in km units. I am in miles which equals about, 96,560 km.

(EDIT: I was in a rush and neglected to say "thank you" for the compliment. Sorry.)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
It seems that to get around 20,000 miles/30,000 km is pretty much normal, at least on a DL650

My first chain was replaced at 33,900 km and had some life left in it, my second at 37,900 km and it was seriously fried. Both were taken care of with oil-based sprays. I was meticulous in cleaning and lube with the first chain, not so much with the second. I have never felt comfy with Teflon lubes for this purpose but my poll suggested that people got roughly the same life with oil based, Teflon, or other stuff.

My current chain has about 15,000 km and is in real good shape. I am using a different product to lube it based on the recommendation of a local bike mechanic that seems to know his stuff pretty good. He feels that chains should last over 100,000 km so I am trying it. The product is Wurth Sabesto HHS2000 and as far as I can tell is like a penetrating grease. I am lubing with each tank of gas and not worrying much about cleaning it. I spray from behind with the bike running on the center stand in first gear, and focus on getting the lube between the plates. (Some inevitably gets everywhere else on the chain anyway.) The stuff is messy but the chain looks like it is in great shape. No links are even slightly stiff, the chain has not needed any adjustment at all (we put it on slightly tight) and it sounds and feels good. I know that only long term will tell but I am encouraged with this stuff.

..Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Been using Dupont Teflon lube since 700 miles, currently at 28,600...chain looks like new as well as the sprockets. I clean the area your talking about, at least the top side everytime I lube it, also clean the countershaft sprocket area every 5,000 miles or less.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,025 Posts
I keep wondering if we should all go back to 30w oil like Pirsig used. He did at least a few paragraphs about it. Does it come in a spray can? :bom_grin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,571 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
I've been using the same stuff now for a few months. For the past month I have been having an issue with a clunking sound, but it's only in 1st and 2nd gears. The sprockets themselves appear to be fine. Like yourself, I've been pretty religious about cleaning the chain and the sprockets. The odd part is that as soon as I hear the sound, if I spray the chain again the sound goes away for the rest of the day. The next day it seems to be right back at it.

Thought there was some kind of kink in the chain because it's almost a hard click and pretty repetitive on timing if I hold speed. Caused by the chain lube? Not sure what to do.... A friend of mine and I went over it all and he said to keep doing what I have been. If the chain starts to loose tension and continue to, then go ahead and replace it. Til then he said why bother? Other then the sprockets themselves, I'm guessing there will be no ill effects. Correct in those assumptions?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
I googled Wurth HHS 2000 and got several hits. the first from Amazon said they were out of stock and had no idea if it would be back in. Several other sites offering it for sale online.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
984 Posts
Slippery

I know that Dupont's teflon chain lube, (the blue can), is a popular product. I am aware that some have switched to the newer product, (yellow can).

I would like to share what has happened with me and using the Dupont product, (blue can).

I have been using the teflon lube since mid-spring. I have been happy with it; primarly because there is no "after mess", (fling off), as can happen with other lubricants.

But lately, I have been having problems with my drive train. Just before leaving on my James Bay trip, I decided that I would change both sprockets and chain. They were about due, and once I left home for James Bay, at least another 3,000 miles was going to be added to the old hardware. So, I installed brand new sprockets and a new chain. I figured and hoped the symptoms I was hearing and feeling would go away.

I am about 4,500 miles into the new setup. I have ridden my bike enough to know when something isn't "right". I have been hearing funny "chirping" sounds from the chain at speeds of 40mph and up. I have also been feeling vibrations as well. The bike just felt like it was "pulling" hard; just not as smooth as it has been.

I do clean my chain with kerosene somewhat regularly. I also clean the sprockets and around the countersprocket shaft. What I missed was the chain guide mounted on the swingarm just aft of the countersprocket.

First I want to share a couple of photographs I took while removing the old sprockets and chain before my trip.

Here is a photo of the front sprocket with the customary "forward hook" to the worn teeth.


Notice the road grime on the outboard face of the sprocket. Also notice the flat spots on the bottom, or "inside face" of the chain.

Now, check out the "motor side" of the countersprocket.


A good 1/32" has been "machined" away by my chain. Improperly aligned chain? Nope, (be patient, I will explain.).

Here is another shot of the chain showing the flat spots. Notice the black "tar - like" substance at the end of each flat spot on the links.


This same very tough and hard substance was "imbedded" into the grooves of my chain guide. Sand and other road grit was also collected in this substance; effectively wearing down and polishing the inside face of the chain. The substance is hard enough to act as a chain guide itself; redirecting my chain into the face of the sprocket.

I have just under 60,000 miles on this bike in almost 3 seasons of riding. I believe I am on my 5th set of sprockets and chain. I have experimented with a host of different chain lubes. I have liked and have recommeded the Dupont lube up until now.

Have I used too much? Possibly.

I am not saying it is a bad product. But, if you do use it, I suggest being vigilant on how you use it and check the chain guide for build up.

I have a feeling that the heat of the chain may change the structure of the teflon to then take on another "personality" and perform in a manner that is counterproductive to its original use.

At work today, I cleaned the build up out of the chain guide grooves. I lubed the chain with some air-tool oil. I will be making the switch back to chainsaw bar oil. It's been the best solution for me so far out of all of the lubes I have tried.
When it comes to chain lube there is only one obvious choice, Bel-Ray Super Clean. Best stuff on the planet. Nope! Don't even think about starting a discussion about other choices, there aren't any. You best rush right out and get some right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
480 Posts
Just looking at your avatar I'm suprised your bike lasted 60k. My chain was shot at 26.5k but the sprockets looked like new compared to your pics. However I spent (at the most) 1k on dirt roads - taking all precautions to remain in a vertical orientation with the ground. While the buildup under the sprocket cover was nasty (almost like a silicon caulking) it never interfered with the hydraulic clutch on the 1000. I can understand how abrasive that could get when your ride likes sleeping in the mud!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,105 Posts
Maybe the kerosene and teflon don't work well together? I've used the Dupont lube to even clean my chain (along with WD40), I don't have enough miles to tell if it's working well or destroying my chain but will keep a eye on it! Cheers-BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Interesting. I have 20k miles on my chain and sprockets. The front sprocket is starting to look like the one in your pic. I use the Dupont every time I fill up the gas tank. I clean the chain with Kerosene every couple of thousand miles or so. I have scrubbed the chain guide clean a couple of times as well, and have cleaned out the counter shaft area about that many times too. I have adjusted my chain exactly twice, and it still looks good and in spec for adjustment. I am expecting it to start showing its age more soon enough, though. I figure by 25k it will be time for sure. With that kind of performance I don't see any reason to change my routine. Anyone disagree with that assessment?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,741 Posts
The product is Wurth Sabesto HHS2000 and as far as I can tell is like a penetrating grease. (Quoted from Tom)

Hey Tom: Where do you get that stuff? (in kanakistan) Inquiring minds want to know!:mod2_clap:

http://wurthindustry.thomasnet.com/item/chemicals-lubricants/lubricants/wur-0893-106?&seo=110 Shows what it looks like:var_50:
I get it from my work as Wurth supplies a lot of chemicals to car dealerships. We don't sell it retail. I was first told about it by Ted Rose who owns Rosey Toes and he sells it, but he's in Toronto. Once I discovered my work uses it I stopped looking. If you can't find it at any retail outlets I think you might check at some local dealerships and see if they use Wurth Products and can get it for you.

Be aware it is messy. I think it helps if you apply it and then let the bike sit. I just want to see if Ted is right on this (chain lasting over 100,00 km) or not. It kind of makes sense ot me as it's a penetrating grease, and grease is what is inside the O-rings.

..Tom
 

·
$tromtrooper
Joined
·
2,378 Posts
...For the past month I have been having an issue with a clunking sound, but it's only in 1st and 2nd gears. ...if I spray the chain again the sound goes away for the rest of the day. The next day it seems to be right back at it....
Those were symptoms of an out of spec chain for me. Replaced with new, problem gone.

Yeah, and BLs avatar suggests a hard life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
671 Posts
Hmmm... thanks for sharing, that is indeed something to watch...

I do have an observation though: if anything caked up so high on the chain guide, it would grind the chain away. No matter what the lube is - the caked-on stuff is mostly dirt, therefore highly abrasive.

I have hard time understanding how it would be better with a lube that creates more fling? If you did not clean it up for as long as this one was not, it could definitely look the same?
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,522 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hmmm... thanks for sharing, that is indeed something to watch...

I do have an observation though: if anything caked up so high on the chain guide, it would grind the chain away. No matter what the lube is - the caked-on stuff is mostly dirt, therefore highly abrasive.

I have hard time understanding how it would be better with a lube that creates more fling? If you did not clean it up for as long as this one was not, it could definitely look the same?
With past sprocket and chain replacements, I have inspected and cleaned, (when necessary), the chain guide. I have never had the issues, (unique wear), nor have I ever seen the kind of "stuff" that accumulated in the chain guide as I have after using the teflon spray.

I suspect that possibly, the heat from the chain may cause the teflon to change its "structure" and get very gummy, (attracting grit), and harden; sticking in the chain guide area. Oil type chain lubricants, I think, may flush themselves out of the guide.

Again, I mention all of this because this is the first time I have ever seen something like this on my bike. I wanted to share my experience with the teflon spray.
 

·
$tromtrooper
Joined
·
2,378 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,038 Posts
That's why I use a light oil like ATF as chain lube, the dirt tends to fall off a lot easier - even then I still pull the sprocket cover and give it a clean with kerosine every 3 months or so.

The grinding paste problem isn't unique to teflon, most of the sticky or waxy "lubes" will do the same thing without additional cleaning.

Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
WOW! You must have really applied a huge amount of this stuff on a regular basis for it to actually build-up to that level, redirect your chain and create that amount of wear. I've never seen or heard anything like this with any chain lubricant.

My chain is closing in on 26k using the Dupont lube with no adverse effects. I do clean my chain every 500-700 miles, maybe that helps.
 
1 - 20 of 74 Posts
Top