StromTrooper banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,520 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Last Friday, I left Mount Desert Island, Maine with my GPS set for Milton Mills, NH to spend the night with an old riding buddy of mine; Scott. One my way South, I ran a quick errand in Portland. I arrived at Scott's in time to head out for dinner.

On Saturday morning, Scott and I rode our motorcycles up to the Whitehorse Gear Open House event located in East Conway, NH. We spent about 2 hrs there, talking with riders, checking out bikes and munching on plate fulls of fantastic, (FREE!!!!), food, (It was one heck of an Open House!).

Around noon-time, Scott and I headed up Rt 113, (for those of you who know, you are grinning, right?), to Gorham, NH. At the intersection of Rt 113 and Rt 2, Scott and I parted ways; he headed back down Rt 113 for Milton Mills and I started cutting across NH, VT and up into Québec. I was shooting for Magog, Québec and Rancho Du Spaghetti, where I have stayed four times before, (I really like this place!).

Sunday morning, I cut across lots of farm country, using as many dirt roads as I could find, (I know this area fairly well now). I crossed back into Maine around 11:30 am at the Corburn Gore crossing. Because I was "early", I decided to extend my journey by picking up the Gold Brook Road, (just South of Natanis Pond), and ride that up to the Spencer Lake Road and out to Rt 201 at Lake Parlin, (about 40 miles of dirt logging roads).

It was about 1:00pm when I got to Rt 201, just South of Jackman. I decided to do more dirt riding. I rode down to The Forks and picked up the Moxie Pond Rd, then the Brouchu Rd and rode that all the way to Greenville. Once in Greenville, it was time to "make hay" for home. That was about 80 miles of "up-on-the-pegs" riding. At a given point, I was about 20 miles from any help...........

(The total mileage was about 755 miles for the weekend.)

Yesterday, (Monday), I decided it was time to remove the lackluster Metzeler Karoos that I had won last year for being the "high mileage" contest winner at my local dealership. I was hoping to get more mileage out of these tires compared to the TKC-80s that I like to run. I'm on a "thin edge" and mounted up a used, front and rear, set of Anakees I had hanging around.

While the rear wheel was off, I decided to clean the chain. After completing that task, I mounted the rear wheel into the swingarm and then gave the wheel a "test spin" with my hand. Something didn't sound right, nor did it feel right.

I sighted down the chain towards the front sprocket. When I was cleaning the chain, the chain jumped off the countersprocket. I was now faced with a choice; drop the rear wheel, or remove the countersprocket cover so that I could get the chain back on to the countersprocket.

I don't know why, but I chose to remove the sprocket cover.

This is what I found.


The countersprocket nut had loosened up and backed off the threads enough that it was cutting through the clutch release mechanism.

Here is the washer.


Take a close look, (Greywolf is going to pick up immediately on what was going on.). When I installed my last set of sprockets and chain, I also installed a new countersprocket washer. I also made the decision, (after torquing down the countersprocket nut), NOT to fold the edge of the washer over to lock the nut in place.

Bad choice.

I used my Dremel tool to clean up the washer as best as I could, and reassembled everything. AND, folded the washer down over the nut. (I will get a new washer and clutch release mechanism.......after I get new sprockets..........and new tires...........)


While I was putting the bike back together, I got to thinking about the 3 1/2 miles that I had to push my bike out of the woods last year when I hydrolocked the motor when I dumped the bike in a big mud puddle. If the countersprocket nut had backed off farther and had completely cut through the clutch release mechanism, I would still be in the woods today..........still pushing.

So everyone, please check your nuts before you leave home.

B.
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,048 Posts
So everyone, please check your nuts before you leave home.
Or have somebody check them for you.

It looks like the washer was not over the splines when the nut got to it. It's a good idea to make sure the washer and nut are concentric before tightening the nut. Folding the washer onto the nut probably would not have prevented the loosening because the tabs were not locked into the splines and the nut didn't bear against the full face of the washer. The act of folding might have made it obvious the washer wasn't centered though.
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,520 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Barry, get an inspection port in your sprocket cover quick
HA!!! You are absolutely correct, sir!!!!

Randyo and I had a chance to briefly chat at the Whitehorse Gear Open House. One idea that he shared with me is something that he has done on his bike. He drilled a 1" diameter hole through his bike's countersprocket cover and installed a rubber plug. The rubber plug can be removed so that the hole becomes an inspection port to check the front sprocket. The rubber plug is of the kind that you find in the doorway area of a Ford Windstar. His Ford Windstar has one less rubber plug.......

I also own a Ford Windstar.......

Thank you for the reminder, Randyo!

B.
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,520 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Or have somebody check them for you.

It looks like the washer was not over the splines when the nut got to it. It's a good idea to make sure the washer and nut are concentric before tightening the nut. Folding the washer onto the nut probably would not have prevented the loosening because the tabs were not locked into the splines and the nut didn't bear against the full face of the washer. The act of folding might have made it obvious the washer wasn't centered though.
Pat, everything was in its proper place when I tightened it. Here is a photograph of the same setup back in 2009. You will notice that the washer is not folded over the nut. Look at the threads of the countershaft, they stick out BEYOND the end of the nut compared to the photograph above. The splines of the washer got pounded out of shape by bouncing around on the countershaft. There was quite a bit of slop between the nut and the engine case!



My guess is, there is something like 3,000 miles ridden with everything loose. That's why I am not too concerned about it and reassembled everything. But, will order parts soon.

(I also used Blue threadlocker as well on the threads.).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
Just curious, what did you torque the nut down to when the front sprocket was off last? It looks like the actual nut has a locking ring on it that is coming off. I could be wrong though. I don't remember if my 05 has a regular nut or a self locking one. You said it though, if that would have come completely off it would have not been pretty.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,025 Posts
Just curious, what did you torque the nut down to when the front sprocket was off last? It looks like the actual nut has a locking ring on it that is coming off. I could be wrong though. I don't remember if my 05 has a regular nut or a self locking one. You said it though, if that would have come completely off it would have not been pretty.
You have to peen that locking washer/ring over against the flats of the counter sprocket nut for it to work. Your '05 is the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
654 Posts
Pat, everything was in its proper place when I tightened it. Here is a photograph of the same setup back in 2009. You will notice that the washer is not folded over the nut. Look at the threads of the countershaft, they stick out BEYOND the end of the nut compared to the photograph above. The splines of the washer got pounded out of shape by bouncing around on the countershaft. There was quite a bit of slop between the nut and the engine case!



My guess is, there is something like 3,000 miles ridden with everything loose. That's why I am not too concerned about it and reassembled everything. But, will order parts soon.

(I also used Blue threadlocker as well on the threads.).
Me thinks the nut started loose about a turn, then the washer slid down between the nut and the sprocket, such that the tangs were no longer engaged on the shaft.

And....I would have used red loctite here....on such a huge joint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
You have to peen that locking washer/ring over against the flats of the counter sprocket nut for it to work. Your '05 is the same.
The washer I know about, it looks like to me in the picture where the nut is loose, there is something coming off of the countershaft nut. It could be just the angle of the picture though. The only bike I have ever owned that didn't have the washer to peen over was my old CR500. That had two bolts that went through the sprocket to hold it on. Those washers, when installed properly, very rarely fail from what I have seen. What I was seeing on the pictures posted above made me think that nut is similar to a locking nut on a rear axle. Not sure of the technical name for a nut that has the internal self locking mech., but it looks like that locking clip inside the nut is coming out of the nut. I could be wrong.
 

·
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
Joined
·
38,048 Posts
It looks like the end of the nut got a combination of wear and breakage from rubbing against the clutch actuator. What's interesting is the DL1000 makes a lot more power, yet it has a thick washer that does not engage the splines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,265 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,564 Posts
The washer I know about, it looks like to me in the picture where the nut is loose, there is something coming off of the countershaft nut. Not sure of the technical name for a nut that has the internal self locking mech., but it looks like that locking clip inside the nut is coming out of the nut. I could be wrong.
They have one of those very technical names that I can't remember either, so I looked it up (self locking nut:green_lol:) http://www.dual-star.com/index2/Brand/Suzuki/axle_nuts_suzuki.htm I think your right about it being that type of nut too. In the pic you can see the very distinct end of one (of four) of the locks. If you squint a bit you can see the corner of another. The other two seem to be missing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
I hear you, but I've never heard or read anyones counter-sprocket nut ever backing off on either the SV or DL.:confused:
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,520 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
most people tend to bend the lock washer over, and obvious oversight on Barry's part
It wasn't an oversight. I actually made the decision not to peen it over. I just figured with 105lbs of torque and a liberal amount of Blue Locktight; where's it gonna go?

I do like your idea of deceleration though. I am big on downshifting and minimally using brakes. Doing this keeps the "revs" up to blast out of a turn, (and yes, the back tire is slipping around some.).

Your idea feels intuitively correct.

I dodged another bullet.
 

·
What Kinda Bike Is That?
Joined
·
5,520 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
It looks like the end of the nut got a combination of wear and breakage from rubbing against the clutch actuator. What's interesting is the DL1000 makes a lot more power, yet it has a thick washer that does not engage the splines.
Yes, you are correct.

The last time I had the sprocket off was when I did my "clutch pushrod - countersprocket" tutorial late last year. I actually rode around for about a week with the sprocket off the bike. I wanted to be absolutely sure there were no leaks; and there weren't.

If you take a look at the original photo of the countershaft and then the later one of what the proper setup should be, (but should have peened over the washer.), there was nearly 1/2" play in the countersprocket. I am so very, very lucky, the CS did not eat up the splines. My guess is, with tension on the sprocket from the chain, the sprocket didn't move around much like the washer did. The sprocket and splines don't look beat up at all.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top