[oldjeep]

Prior to computerized systems I'd tend to agree tho I've always used the key.

Now I think there is good reason to use the key as the manuals and dealership recommends.

MSF also teaches to use high beams all the time and that's dead wrong as well as illegal in some regions, so I'd discount their opinion on kill switch.

They recommend using high beams during daytime hours - FWIW

 

[Grimmer]

Here's some info so everyone can decide for themselves whether or not to use the key, the handlebar run/stop switch, or the side stand switch:

When in the up position, the side stand switch on the Vee2 provides a ground path for the COIL of the side stand relay. It appears to carry no more load than a control circuit would. Also, this circuit is energized whenever the key is ON, so unless you are moving the side stand (in either direction) with the key OFF you are putting it under the same stress regardless of whether or not the engine is running. The side stand relay's contacts bear the load and stress of the "hot contact change of state" and they are cheap and easy to replace. The side stand switch's most probable cause for failure would be the ingress of crap since it is only a few inches off the road's surface.

Once the side stand relay coil is energized, power flows from the fuse through the relay's contacts to the RH Handlebar Run/Stop switch, then on to the low voltage side of all 4 ignition coils, there is also a shunt to the ECM (presumable to report the switch's status to ECM). The ground side of each coil goes directly to the EMC, so whatever load is there is being switched by the ECM internally when it wants the spark plugs to fire.

There may also be a shunt to the ABS module (I don't remember for sure), but that is probably also a control signal to tell the ABS module the switch's status. At any rate the high current parts of the ABS system have their own dedicated relays, so I doubt that the engine run/stop switch is carrying very much load in excess of the low voltage side of the coils.

As for startup and shutdown sequences... I don't see much of a shutdown sequence whether using the key, the engine run/start, or the side stand to kill the engine. I do however see the start up sequence repeated once all three of the above are restored to their run condition, regardless of which one is restored last.

Hope that helps...do as you will, it's your bike.

 

[Polarbear99]

Hi Fellow Troopers,

Answers: I start the bike without twisting the throttle; starts right up. I've had this happen both with and without bliping the throttle ( I actually thought that blipping it after a little warm up and before setting out on a ride might cure the problem - nope ). And I do hit the kill switch with the bike at idle. ECM recall has been done. I expect the air filter is clean as I keep up on all maintainence at my local dealership where I bought the bike, and the '12 650 Strom before this one. And I haven't been riding at all in dusty conditions. Battery voltage at 11.7 when bike is turned on, with lights on, but not running; kicks up to 13.8 very shortly after starting with bike at idle, 14.0 when cruising at 4000 rpm. I'm not sure what all that means, but she briskly turns over at first start-up in the morning. I'm wondering about the throttle body balance - that might be an issue? Thanks guys, for stepping up to the plate here.

Ride safe all.

gary

To me this is a bit too low. Check all electrical? You should be getting a half a bolt higher. Could be a bad stator too, or a bad battery cell. I would start there. But I’m no mechanic...

Good luck.

C


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Macdoc]

I agree there is not an obvious shutdown sequence but all along I've thought his coughing was fuel pressure related. I suspect there is a shut down that releases the pressure in the fuel system and by cutting it off that is left in limbo. The pressure will eventually drop but depending on his restart time that may be where the cough/backfire arises.

From the CB500x forum

*Originally Posted by HardFacts [+]
CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM WHAT THIS IS ??? When all these bikes are first turned on ( not started, just turn on, you can hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds ) I assume this is to build up fuel pressure for the start, is this correct ?

Yes, when the key is turned to ON, the fuel pump turns on for a few seconds to build up the fuel pressure in the system. This must be controlled by a timed relay that turns on for about two seconds to build up the pressure so the fuel to the injectors is sufficiently pressurized.
I know on modern cars, when I replace a fuel injector, I start the engine, then pull the fuse to the fuel pump, and the engine will run for about a minute before stumbling and missing and finally dying. This relieves the pressure in the fuel rail so the injectors can be removed. So the problem you are having sounds similar... the pressure is enough to start it, but then declines over the 10 minutes of running until there is no more pressure in the system. The only thing providing that pressure is the fuel pump.

 

[oldjeep]

I agree there is not an obvious shutdown sequence but all along I've thought his coughing was fuel pressure related. I suspect there is a shut down that releases the pressure in the fuel system and by cutting it off that is left in limbo. The pressure will eventually drop but depending on his restart time that may be where the cough/backfire arises.

From the CB500x forum

Some vehicles may depressurize the fuel system, but in most it stays pressurized even after the engine is shut down. There is typically a check valve that prevents the pressure from bleeding down. If you wonder about this - check the fuel pressure at the rail on whatever you are driving. This is why leaky injectors cause such problems, because they will bleed off fuel into the cylinder with the leaky injector. A low or zero fuel pressure on a parked car is typically the easiest way to diagnose a leaky injector.

I will say that my Suzuki runs the pump everytime I turn the key on - with the cutoff switch on. This says to me that the Suzuki either bleeds off pressure when off - or I have a bad check valve (if one exists). My Yamaha never fires the pump at key on unless I have been doing fuel system work.

Side note - if those Hondas are using a timer relay to determine when enough pressure has built - yuck. Typical design (in cars anyways) is a fuel pressure sensor - which is easily readable when looking at the ecu with a scan tool. I havn't got a scan tool for my bikes, so maybe they are not that sophisticated.

 

[Macdoc]

but in most it stays pressurized even after the engine is shut down

that makes me think that this is the issue...it's not staying pressurized enough...so the bike stumbles and farts.
Proof will be shutting down with the ignition and it stops/

 

[blaustrom]

To me this is a bit too low. Check all electrical? You should be getting a half a bolt higher. Could be a bad stator too, or a bad battery cell. I would start there. But I’m no mechanic.....

NOTE: The V2 shows the voltage on the instrument panel and that connection tends to read a little low. Mine never get above 14V, typically is 13.9V at elevated RPM's. There is a recent thread about it but I can't find it now.

 

[Grimmer]

As mentioned earlier, I have been seeing a slow onset of the return of symptoms somewhat similar to OP. I noticed the first time that my symptoms were lessened by performing the ISC balance followed by the STP learned position reset. The out right coughs for me were during the period when the ECM was "relearning" the STP position. As part of my previous post, I noticed that I was quite overdue for another round of ISC balance and STP reset. The manual basically calls it out every 7,500 miles and it has been about 13,500 miles since my last adjustment.

So yesterday I performed another ISC balance and STP learned position reset. This time I rode it for about 10 miles as soon as I put everything back together (before it cooled off). I did not experience any coughing last night or this morning on a cold engine. The engine is back to running smooth and happy (reversed the slow onset of symptoms).

I can't guarantee a similar procedure will benefit the OP as much as it did for my bike. If there is another underlying issue, then maybe not, but if everything else is up to par, it may solve his problem. Unfortunately, the procedure is a little pricey at the shop for a "maybe it will help" option. Perhaps OP can find a Stromtrooper nearby that can help with the procedure.

As a side note regarding fuel rail pressure... At two times during the procedure I had to remove the tank right after having run the engine. I did not want to shoot pressurized fuel all over the hot engine and electronics, so I stopped the engine and disconnected the fuel pump electrical connector and then restarted the bike to depressurize the system using the injectors. On both occasions there was enough pressure in the fuel rail to restart the bike and run it for about 1 second before it starved out and died. I therefore conclude that there is no immediate fuel pressure relief designed into the system. It may or may not leak down given enough time, but it definitely didn't dump by design at shut off. My Vee2 also runs the fuel pump every time I turn on the ignition, seemingly regardless of residual pressure in the rail.

 

[fayeslane]

FWIW the operators manual for an Australian 2014 DL1000 barely mentions the kill switch and there are no warnings about using it.

if you are worried about wearing it out you should also be worried about the more often used turn signal switch.

 

[Rolex]

99 times out of 100 you will be manipulating the key anyway why use both ?

It's like wearing 2 pairs of underpants, you only need one so the second pair get all that wear & tear for no justifiable reason.

I had the stand switch fail on my V2 while the bike was under warranty, the PO shut the bike down with that switch every time, I was lucky and had the suff with me to bypass the switch and continue my ride, bypassing a failed kill switch would be more trouble, why put yourself in that position when it can be avoided.

After that switch failed I make the effort to use the key when I can, if I do use one of the other switches I cross my fingers the bike will start when I return , I don't find that necessary if I use the key, I fully expect the ignition switch to outlast the bike and it doesn't it had nothing to do with my shut down procedure it was by the book.

I think rider trainers try to make you think they know more than you, I believe there are only small percentage of good ones, the other's learn in parrot fashion like their students.

 

[RebornRider]

Have switched ( pun intended ) to using the keyed ignition switch for on and off function. Will look for any recurrence of the problem over the next couple of weeks. Lots of good discussion here. Some of it way over my head! lol Thanks to all for insightful thoughts.
Ride safe all.
gary

 

[Cryoman]

There have been cases of ignition key contact issues on older models. I'll stick with using the simpler kill switch to stop current flow, 100% reliable, 0 failures. The are both in the same circuit:

 

[Rolex]

The problem is you must still use the ignition switch after you have used the kill switch, so if your ignition switch is going to fail using the kill switch will not save it.

2 pairs of underpants...