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The early 650s & 1000s shared the same brakes...among other things. & yes...the early 1000s had better quality cartridge forks & multi stage rear shock valving compared to the 650s simpler design suspension components. If the newer 17up 650s had the 14up 1000s much improved suspension components....well...different story there. Course...it would need the lighter frame too.

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Interesting observation but 3 PSI difference in front tire pressure isn't justification to say one 500 lb. bike is better than another 500 lb. "on the loose stuff".

They both suck!

Me I find the 1000 better to ride on dirt roads (and similar) than the 650. The 650 is underdamped and the brakes are numb in comparison. It always felt kind of "springy" to me where the 1000 feels more planted.
this response makes the most sense to me for sure. I have no experience. If I had my choice the 1000 for street and "easy-does-it" gravel / fire road etc & a single cylinder less than 405 cc FOR MORE SERIOUS of road activities.
The proper machine for the task at hand...."THAT IS THE WAY" !
 

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Using the proper technique lifting the 1000 vs the 650 should not be that different.
It's not lifting it, it's a bit more cumbersome and heavier than the 40lb suggests, mainly because a lot of that weight is higher on the 1000. So it's the points where you might crash unless you take action I probably wouldn't on the 650, probably would on the 1000, or at least drop it more often.

The 650 was too heavy, but it's slightly less reach to the ground turns easier and it was just possible to save it from spills. The 1000 no way, once it starts tipping I'm not going to be able to stop it. Similar issue in other dodgy circumstances, like ooops, a bit fast. The better brakes on the 1000 don't help on gravel, the 650 I could bury the nose in the ground and stop the backend swinging, the 1000, probably not.

Less weight is the clear win off road, power don't enter in to it. From the revs I typically used (<5k), probably 30'ish HP is enough. The other winner is how slowly you can ride the bike, the 650 wins there as well.
 

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How often and when somebody drops a bike depends WAY more on the rider than the bike. Everyone’s opinion will differ because everyone has a different skill set and different experience.
 

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How often and when somebody drops a bike depends WAY more on the rider than the bike. Everyone’s opinion will differ because everyone has a different skill set and different experience.
Yep.

The 650 probably is easier to pick up but it's better not to drop a bike in the first place. If you're dropping/crashing frequently you probably should consider your skill and judgement more than what bike you're on!
 

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Yep.

The 650 probably is easier to pick up but it's better not to drop a bike in the first place. If you're dropping/crashing frequently you probably should consider your skill and judgement more than what bike you're on!
I am still new here, but I am getting the feeling that not dropping your V once in a while means you aren't testing the limits of bike and self enough. I have not had that feeling since I was a teenager so many years ago. I like it. :p
 

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It's not dropping the bike that concerns me, it's me being between it and the ground when that happens :).

I didn't drop bikes often and generally avoided having the bike land on me, but they aren't particularly crashable bikes, once again more weight means more damage done. If you want to push the limits do it on a small bike, the damage to the bike and rider will be less on average.

And again, more power isn't a win because the damage done goes up as the square of the impact speed and that's likely higher on the 1000 than the 650.

Statistics do generally catch up with you in the end.
 

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win because the damage done goes up as the square of the impact speed and that's likely higher on the 1000 than the 650.
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Why would the impact speed be higher on a 1000?

..Tom
 

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I am still new here, but I am getting the feeling that not dropping your V once in a while means you aren't testing the limits of bike and self enough. I have not had that feeling since I was a teenager so many years ago. I like it. :p
Testing the limits to what end? You're not racing right?

If you want to see how hard you can crash a 500 lb street bike off-road go ahead on I guess. Good luck to you.

I grew up riding dirt bikes and I can tell you crashing hurts and is expensive. I do everything I can to avoid it. I've got enough experience in the dirt to know that looking for the "limits" on a Strom won't end well.
 

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Testing the limits to what end? You're not racing right?

If you want to see how hard you can crash a 500 lb street bike off-road go ahead on I guess. Good luck to you.

I grew up riding dirt bikes and I can tell you crashing hurts and is expensive. I do everything I can to avoid it. I've got enough experience in the dirt to know that looking for the "limits" on a Strom won't end well.
Dirt bikes teach you all about injuries and rehab for SURE. Getting better and pushing the limits of a motorcycle does not need to include crashing.
 

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Testing the limits to what end? You're not racing right?

If you want to see how hard you can crash a 500 lb street bike off-road go ahead on I guess. Good luck to you.

I grew up riding dirt bikes and I can tell you crashing hurts and is expensive. I do everything I can to avoid it. I've got enough experience in the dirt to know that looking for the "limits" on a Strom won't end well.
I think "self" covers it. I wouldn't have a Strom if self didn't matter.
 

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There is a tipping point when it comes to the weight of motorcycles in respect to the notion that one bike feels more easily maneuverable and another bike feels more heavy and less maneuverable and in my opinion that is the difference between the 650 and larger Stroms. The 650 can do both ride the slab all day and then go off road on reasonable dirt roads without a lot of drama.
 

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There is a tipping point when it comes to the weight of motorcycles in respect to the notion that one bike feels more easily maneuverable and another bike feels more heavy and less maneuverable and in my opinion that is the difference between the 650 and larger Stroms. The 650 can do both ride the slab all day and then go off road on reasonable dirt roads without a lot of drama.
And that tipping point is different for each rider. I can’t imagine any drama at all on a dirt road no matter what motorcycle I’m on. I ride my 1000 on some pretty gnarly trails but maybe our definition of off-road is different. If the 650 is better for you that’s fantastic, that doesn’t make it a better bike. Same can said for the 1000
 

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495 pounds or 530 pounds
Either one, it might not be good.
For that reason I installed engine protection sliders... they stick out about 4 to 5 inches ( a guess).
That’s one thing about a bmw twin,
Those cylinders keep your feet warm in cold , and will keep frame from pining you down.... most of the time.
 

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Why would the impact speed be higher on a 1000?

..Tom
Because the 1000 picks up speed a lot faster, because FEELS better on dirt roads (until shit happens at least), lots of reasons, mainly it comes down to "because it has more power" and odds are that if you make a mistake it'll happen at higher speeds.

Even the 650 was stupid fast for the dirt roads around here, I looked down once, saw 130k's on what was not a well groomed dirt road - felt great. Pulled off 50k's very quickly then clipped a kangaroo. Had I been doing 150 initially the outcome would have been far different. (The old Grafton Glen-Innes road if any Aussies care)

I only had a DL650 because any decent dirt roads are at least 80k of seal away for me so a bike that could manage dirt and wasn't foul on long slab runs was what I was after. Even the bigger singles are generally horrible if you do long road k's. Wind blast if nothing else.
 

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Because the 1000 picks up speed a lot faster, because FEELS better on dirt roads (until shit happens at least), lots of reasons, mainly it comes down to "because it has more power" and odds are that if you make a mistake it'll happen at higher speeds.

Even the 650 was stupid fast for the dirt roads around here, I looked down once, saw 130k's on what was not a well groomed dirt road - felt great. Pulled off 50k's very quickly then clipped a kangaroo. Had I been doing 150 initially the outcome would have been far different. (The old Grafton Glen-Innes road if any Aussies care)
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So this isn't actually a DL1000 thing it is your opinion that a DL1000 rider would ride their heavier, taller bike faster when offroad.

I suspect the opposite is true; perhaps people riding a lighter bike would ride faster when offroad.

I don't think it makes any real difference in reality. faster riders will ride faster regardless of what they are riding.

..Tom
 

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So this isn't actually a DL1000 thing it is your opinion that a DL1000 rider would ride their heavier, taller bike faster when offroad.

I suspect the opposite is true; perhaps people riding a lighter bike would ride faster when offroad.

I don't think it makes any real difference in reality. faster riders will ride faster regardless of what they are riding.

..Tom
1000% right! The faster rider will always be faster regardless of the bike.
 

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with regard to all of this discussion. the 650 vs the 1000... i say either are just as good or no good off road....IMHO. That said, money no object... the 1000 for street and light duty non street... and a sweet KTM 390 & a camper to take to your off-road place etc.
If your riding preference is not to gnarly, the Suzuki 400 cc thumper is a great choice.
 

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If your riding preference is not to gnarly, the Suzuki 400 cc thumper is a great choice.
+1 on that as a 2nd toy. Had a TS400J in the mid 1980's as a long term loan to settle a debt (bike turned out to be stolen-glad I was never pulled over). Gobs of power, had a few quirks, lots of fun, not crazy heavy if memory serves. That cc range on an off road oriented dual sport is perfect for me
 

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And that tipping point is different for each rider. I can’t imagine any drama at all on a dirt road no matter what motorcycle I’m on. I ride my 1000 on some pretty gnarly trails but maybe our definition of off-road is different. If the 650 is better for you that’s fantastic, that doesn’t make it a better bike. Same can said for the 1000
As always...... everybody is entitled to my opinion. ;)
 
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