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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, new member question and apologies in advance as I bet it's been asked a hell of a lot. Is the 650cc good with a passenger and luggage or hold out for a 1000cc bike. Combined weight of us two is about 140kgs. I've got a Harley Davidson Sportster now so speed isn't such an issue 馃槀 Thanks in advance people 馃挭.
 

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The stock 650 is an very good 2-up tourer. With some slight modification (Front fork emulators and rear shock/spring rebuild to allow for spirited 2-up riding) it is transformed to an excellent rider/pillion platform that is more than capable.
My 2009 has logged 1000's of miles with the lovely wife riding pillion. Her one complaint is the stock seat. That is a pretty minor issue. We have a small set of 22L Givi sidecases, 31L Shad topcase, and a 25L Givi Tank-Ring tank bag. This gives us just over 100 liters of usable storage while maintaining a narrow profile. Perfect for weekend getaways with hotel stays, a bit more cramped to camp. The topcase gets left behind in favor of a Wolfmann roll-down duffel strapped in it's place. That bag contains the entire campsite--tent, sleeping bags, stove, air mattresses, etc. and this has worked well for us so far. Now that Givi has the e36L cases back in production, we may get a set to use for camping/longer runs, although until I spring for the Russell Day Long seat, methinks that runs will be less than 200 miles from home, lol.
 

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You should be OK, we've had two 650's and two 1000's in the garage since 07. My wife and I are considerably heavier than you two, and we always did just fine two up. Overtaking on a back road in traffic, you'll be downshifting, and want to be somewhat careful, but it is workable. Here in the western US, some of our freeway speeds are 80 mph, two lane highways across Nevada or Utah are very high speed, so I went back to the 1000. If passing in a blink of the eye on back roads is important to you, those extra 400 CC's are really nice. The 1000 comes with better brakes and suspension too, there is quite a difference between them, best if you can find and ride examples of both.
K9 Wee is right on about the seats though, I have tried an off the shelf aftermarket on mine, and always went back to Russell for true all day comfort.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi mate, thanks for your very detailed answer 馃憤 I'm really liking the 650 it gives more economy
You should be OK, we've had two 650's and two 1000's in the garage since 07. My wife and I are considerably heavier than you two, and we always did just fine two up. Overtaking on a back road in traffic, you'll be downshifting, and want to be somewhat careful, but it is workable. Here in the western US, some of our freeway speeds are 80 mph, two lane highways across Nevada or Utah are very high speed, so I went back to the 1000. If passing in a blink of the eye on back roads is important to you, those extra 400 CC's are really nice. The 1000 comes with better brakes and suspension too, there is quite a difference between them, best if you can find and ride examples of both.
K9 Wee is right on about the seats though, I have tried an off the shelf aftermarket on mine, and always went back to Russell for true all day comfort.
You should be OK, we've had two 650's and two 1000's in the garage since 07. My wife and I are considerably heavier than you two, and we always did just fine two up. Overtaking on a back road in traffic, you'll be downshifting, and want to be somewhat careful, but it is workable. Here in the western US, some of our freeway speeds are 80 mph, two lane highways across Nevada or Utah are very high speed, so I went back to the 1000. If passing in a blink of the eye on back roads is important to you, those extra 400 CC's are really nice. The 1000 comes with better brakes and suspension too, there is quite a difference between them, best if you can find and ride examples of both.
K9 Wee is right on about the seats though, I have tried an off the shelf aftermarket on mine, and always went back to Russell for true all day comfort.
The stock 650 is an very good 2-up tourer. With some slight modification (Front fork emulators and rear shock/spring rebuild to allow for spirited 2-up riding) it is transformed to an excellent rider/pillion platform that is more than capable.
My 2009 has logged 1000's of miles with the lovely wife riding pillion. Her one complaint is the stock seat. That is a pretty minor issue. We have a small set of 22L Givi sidecases, 31L Shad topcase, and a 25L Givi Tank-Ring tank bag. This gives us just over 100 liters of usable storage while maintaining a narrow profile. Perfect for weekend getaways with hotel stays, a bit more cramped to camp. The topcase gets left behind in favor of a Wolfmann roll-down duffel strapped in it's place. That bag contains the entire campsite--tent, sleeping bags, stove, air mattresses, etc. and this has worked well for us so far. Now that Givi has the e36L cases back in production, we may get a set to use for camping/longer runs, although until I spring for the Russell Day Long seat, methinks that runs will be less than 200 miles from home, lol.
The stock 650 is an very good 2-up tourer. With some slight modification (Front fork emulators and rear shock/spring rebuild to allow for spirited 2-up riding) it is transformed to an excellent rider/pillion platform that is more than capable.
My 2009 has logged 1000's of miles with the lovely wife riding pillion. Her one complaint is the stock seat. That is a pretty minor issue. We have a small set of 22L Givi sidecases, 31L Shad topcase, and a 25L Givi Tank-Ring tank bag. This gives us just over 100 liters of usable storage while maintaining a narrow profile. Perfect for weekend getaways with hotel stays, a bit more cramped to camp. The topcase gets left behind in favor of a Wolfmann roll-down duffel strapped in it's place. That bag contains the entire campsite--tent, sleeping bags, stove, air mattresses, etc. and this has worked well for us so far. Now that Givi has the e36L cases back in production, we may get a set to use for camping/longer runs, although until I spring for the Russell Day Long seat, methinks that runs will be less than 200 miles from home, lol.
You should be OK, we've had two 650's and two 1000's in the garage since 07. My wife and I are considerably heavier than you two, and we always did just fine two up. Overtaking on a back road in traffic, you'll be downshifting, and want to be somewhat careful, but it is workable. Here in the western US, some of our freeway speeds are 80 mph, two lane highways across Nevada or Utah are very high speed, so I went back to the 1000. If passing in a blink of the eye on back roads is important to you, those extra 400 CC's are really nice. The 1000 comes with better brakes and suspension too, there is quite a difference between them, best if you can find and ride examples of both.
K9 Wee is right on about the seats though, I have tried an off the shelf aftermarket on mine, and always went back to Russell for true all day comfort.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi mate, thanks for your very detailed answer 馃憤 I'm really liking the 650 it gives more economy
Thanks for your replies guys, I'm just getting used to this group and struggling typing my replies馃檮 very good answers though so thankyou, I'm thinking the 650 would be better suited as I'm pretty new to riding ~6 months.
 

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You didn't say what type of riding you'll be doing, so I'll just add that while the Wee is more than adequate for me and my wife (a combined 165kg naked, though we generally don't ride that way), except under some conditions. Out west in the US, at highway speeds while climbing grades and/or facing headwinds with the two of us and camping gear -- that's when I wish I'd ponied up for the liter bike. I have to thrash my '08 650 to keep up against gravity and wind drag. We haven't ridden on the '21 together yet; it's a bit stronger throughout its range, but will be similarly deficient under heavy load on grades, I'm sure.

Those times are infrequent enough that I never found the 1000/1050 to be worth the tradeoffs and $$. I still love the 650s.

Additionally, if you're looking at gen3 bikes, be aware that many people (including us) found that the stock Suzuki aluminum panniers are mounted much too high and close to the seat for pillion comfort. On my '21 650, I ended up replacing my panniers with Happy Trails to give her back the room she had on the '08. Definiltely a fixable problem, but might take money to do it, depending.

And welcome aboard. :)
 

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Hi mate, thanks for your very detailed answer 馃憤 I'm really liking the 650 it gives more economy
Not sure how good the economy is loaded with a pillion and luggage, that 650 will be working pretty hard. But if you're mostly solo with an occasional pillion, yes, it's quite thrifty.
 
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My Gen 1 650 struggled a bit - not a major thing but basically I ran a gear lower. With my Gen 2 650 it really had no problems. Possibly better than the 1000 in some ways as smooth is good with a pillion on the back and it's not quite as tall. (I have a 2014 DL1000 as well).

Unless you need the power to do stupid passes - which you shouldn't be doing with a pillion anyway - I doubt which you choose matters much.
 

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Not sure how good the economy is loaded with a pillion and luggage, that 650 will be working pretty hard. But if you're mostly solo with an occasional pillion, yes, it's quite thrifty.
Honestly, in my experience, it doesn't seem to matter much. The only thing that dramatically affects fuel economy is wind drag.

Far as load, riding style, etc., nothing moves it much off 45-ish mpg. the only time I get north of 50 mpg is when I ride like a grandma, and in wide-open Wyoming with a stiff breeze at 80MPH, 35mpg is all I can expect. At speeds above 60mph, the effect is exponential.

Those numbers are all from the '08 Wee. So far, the '21 is beating the '08's fuel economy consistently by a couple of mpg at the same point in its life (keeping records helps make this apples-to-apples).
 

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My Gen 1 650 struggled a bit - not a major thing but basically I ran a gear lower. With my Gen 2 650 it really had no problems.
Interesting. I've noticed a similar difference between my gen1 and gen3. I'm not sure if it's age/wear on the '08, or engine design, but there's no question the '21 is a bit stronger. (Tested by my butt dyno, accelerating from 60-70mph and timing it, in various gears, the '21 is definitely faster.)
 
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My 2011 650 is very competent with me and the wife. Between the two of us we just top 300 pounds (no gear), 136 kg for our euro buddies. She doesn't come on the longer trips, just fun local stuff (no high speed slab stuff).

On the highway, I'm sure it could do it. But if that was going to be our main use case I'd get the bigger one.
 

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On my 2007 DL1000, it was suspension more than power that made a huge difference for 2-up.

With the stock suspension, things were miserable with both of us on.

Once I got stiffer springs and had the rear shock rebuilt by Sasquatch, the ride was so much better. No more extreme diving while braking. No more pogo or bottoming out going over a speed bump. No more having to adjust my mirrors between solo and riding with passenger.

I would imagine the same would apply to 2-up with a 650: suspension upgrades will pay off significantly.
 

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I previously owned an 05 DL650 and had it set up with stiffer springs etc for two up riding. The 650's power was more than adequate for two up. But- the big advantages of the 1000 for riding two up are chassis related. Features such as much more powerful front brakes, the upside down forks vs conventional, and the 1000's overall chassis stiffness in general. I think the chassis stiffness comes from a substantially more engineered swing arm, larger axles, double clamp style front axle, and better clamping of the rear axle. Of course, the 1000's extra power is certainly more fun too, and that needs to be considered.

The interesting thing to know, is that the 650 didn't feel slow when riding two up, but it did feel slow when riding solo. The 1000 doesn't feel slow either two up or solo. Of course, compared to big hp sportbikes, the 1000 lacks the factor of "totally unnecessary level of excess power".
 

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I would go for the 1000. Logically it has more passing power than the 650. I was torn between both when I purchased my Strom. The Wife tried the pillion perch on both and preferred the 1000 albeit as far as I could see there was little difference between them. She also encouraged me to go for the 1000 for the extra power that it provided when needed. I have never regretted that decision in the most demanding conditions even two up and fully loaded with gear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks very much for all your replies guys, very useful and informative. I'll go with an open mind but may swing towards the 1000 if it's the right bike. And in reply to dtalk it's a bit chilly in the UK for naked riding 馃槀, and oh this is going to be probably my long distance back up bike, the V Strom's just have awesome reviews 馃挭
 

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Toured 2 up on both bikes. The 650 works, but the suspension needs work first. The 1000 is nice an easy, no downshifts for passing. 140 kg should keep you a comfortable distance from the max GVWR.
 

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A Sasquatch upgrade on the rear shock worked wonders for us. Combined, we are 375lbs.
Best $400 inc shipping that I spent on the bike.馃憤
 

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Hi guys, new member question and apologies in advance as I bet it's been asked a hell of a lot. Is the 650cc good with a passenger and luggage or hold out for a 1000cc bike. Combined weight of us two is about 140kgs. I've got a Harley Davidson Sportster now so speed isn't such an issue 馃槀 Thanks in advance people 馃挭.
Weight should be ok. But riding 2 up loaded with luggage, I think the bike would fall short on power, unless your just riding 2 lane back roads with no need for passing power.
 

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I'm thinking the 650 would be better suited as I'm pretty new to riding ~6 months.
I'd get a used 650 and ride at least another year on the 650 till you get your sea legs and a bit more experience. The 650 is a bit of a pig (i.e. tall and top heavy esp. with a full tank) and the 1000 is even moreso. Put a passenger on the back and it is even more unwieldy. Cut your teeth on the smaller bike. As others have stated, you can still do 2 up on the 650 but it is only adequate. If touring with your lady becomes a thing you both love to do together then move to the 1000.

...so speed isn't such an issue
The extra cc's aren't so much for speed (though it is nice) but for power and to give you more options in dicey situations. With all the luggage and an extra person the 650 can get trapped in common touring scenarios. Passing on a short runway or on a grade, high head winds, stuck behind a long row of cars on a windy road, etc. At freeway speeds (in the USA anyway) the 650 is not quite at its limit so it still has some oomph but you will need to pedal (down shift) in an uphill climb or head wind which can make for a sketchy ride.
 
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