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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I agree most motorcycle buyers are morons but not all. In fact the adventure segment may be one of the few demographics that will worry about how a motorcycle performs etc.

Some of us will do research. If I was to be asked today about whether a future buyers should buy or wait for the new Vstrom I would have to tell them that the existing one has many quirks, poor fueling, clutch chudder, rear sprocket/cush hub, low electrical output, poor mileage and range.

Edit forgot ridiculous windshield wind buffeting

Just remembered sprung too soft for USA Euro Market

Ridiculous expense and difficulty for fuel filter / pump things

TPS as the cheapest form of printed potentiometer guaranteed to wear out


There has been zero evidence from the stylist reports that ANY of these real short comings have been addressed.

If you guys have handled these problems then this is what we want to hear about not that a stylist was inspired be a wood pecker in heat

thank you rich w
 

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I agree most motorcycle buyers are morons but not all. In fact the adventure segment may be one of the few demographics that will worry about how a motorcycle performs etc.

Some of us will do research. If I was to be asked today about whether a future buyers should buy or wait for the new Vstrom I would have to tell them that the existing one has many quirks, poor fueling, clutch chudder, rear sprocket/cush hub, low electrical output, poor mileage and range.

Edit forgot ridiculous windshield wind buffeting

There has been zero evidence from the stylist reports that ANY of these real short comings have been addressed.

If you guys have handled these problems then this is what we want to hear about not that a stylist was inspired be a wood pecker in heat

thank you rich w
:green_lol::thumbup:

I will second that! I am very excited about the new DL1000. I had a DL1000 and enjoyed it, but the clutch chudder issue burned me. I would also like to know that the issues with the current model have been addressed.

At any rate, I will sit back and watch for 2-3 years and see how the early adopters fare, both with the quality of their bikes, and the quality of support from American Suzuki.
 

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The problem with the new Vstrom is that it doesn't excite
The KTM 1190 ADV does have this sparkle, and yet it seems KTM kept the function over form principle

Maybe the new Vstrom is just not the next bike for us?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We shouldn't judge until it exists but I am trying to tell them that the faithful need to hear that concerns were addressed not ignored. They now have competition in this market area and millennials will be less tolerant of quirks then Geezers are

I have heard from a few KTM's that they are high strung, hard to work on, and have a few quirks of there own......Grass is greener

I don't care just a kibbutz as I will probably never buy another motorcycle as long as the 06 keeps going
 

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I don't think any bike manufacturer is going to say in their ads "we got the following specific items wrong the first time.....but have addressed all these items in the 2014 model to make it better".
Suzuki HAS said they tweaked the motor (does that mean "fix", or just redesign for better fuel economy, blah, blah....???) for the 2014 version. Most of the previous Vee "irratants" have stemed from the engine.....with the exception of the cush hub wear.......so only time will tell if they fixed the chudder and other ridability problems.
If you remember when the 2012 Glee was introduced, Suzuki said the engine was revised for better fuel consumption.....and I don't remember much more (in the engine dept)?? (there may be, I just don't remember??? air-cooled oil cooler changed to water-cooled??) Did we get better brakes.....no. Better windshield design.....no. But we did get a better bike....as testified by owners who have owned both the old and the new. I expect Suzuki has done the same thing for the '14 Vee.........made it "better" but not necessarily addressing all the "nits" of the old model.
 

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I notice that there was a thread concerning a recall of the 2012 Vee ECM. People who had it changed say that the bike with the new ECM runs beautifully. Perhaps while working on the 2014, the techs finally got it right, put the new map/ECM in the 2013s and voluntarily upgraded the 2012s. Suzuki has got some excellent engineers, they've asked the Europeans what they want, and I'll bet the boys (and girls) across the pond don't want chudder, poor mileage, etc. Wait and test drive before you write the new one off, just because you don't like Suzukis advertising campaign.:fineprint:
 

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The problem with the new Vstrom is that it doesn't excite
The KTM 1190 ADV does have this sparkle, and yet it seems KTM kept the function over form principle
And I am betting the new Vee won't cost $16,000 either.
 

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I agree most motorcycle buyers are morons but not all. In fact the adventure segment may be one of the few demographics that will worry about how a motorcycle performs etc.

Some of us will do research. If I was to be asked today about whether a future buyers should buy or wait for the new Vstrom I would have to tell them that the existing one has many quirks, poor fueling, clutch chudder, rear sprocket/cush hub, low electrical output, poor mileage and range.

Edit forgot ridiculous windshield wind buffeting

There has been zero evidence from the stylist reports that ANY of these real short comings have been addressed.

If you guys have handled these problems then this is what we want to hear about not that a stylist was inspired be a wood pecker in heat

thank you rich w
Surely you consider yourself a member of the select group of morons !!! :green_lol:
 

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And I am betting the new Vee won't cost $16,000 either.
It won't, but if it costs $13K-$14K (likely, IMO), then $16K-$17K for a much better motorcycle is a better deal/value.
The DL-650 (Wee/Glee) is a good platform to improve from, since it is good value at ~$8-8.5K.
I wouldn't put $3K to improve a $13K motorcycle, would just go straight to the $16K bike.

I don't see Suzuki putting high quality suspension. Almost all their bikes have cheap suspension. Nor do I see any of the smart mapping all the other high end ADVs have, or the fly-by-wire throttle, cruise control.
It is going to be a better Vee, lighter and stronger, but not a force that can compete with the current 1200CC ADV bikes (BMW, Ducati, KTM, Triumph, Aprilia)
In fact, the other 1000cc "ADV" bikes are the Kawasaki Versys 1000, which I would never put off road with an inline 4 and so much weight, and the Honda Varadero 1000cc which is a great bike, but not sold in the US, and is also getting outdated.
KTM will no longer have the 990 model sold.. Does Suzuki want to be the only manufacturer selling in the US an ADV bike with 1000cc? Maybe it is a genius strategy, or maybe they don't read the market very well?? :confused:
 

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The problem with the new Vstrom is that it doesn't excite
The KTM 1190 ADV does have this sparkle, and yet it seems KTM kept the function over form principle

Maybe the new Vstrom is just not the next bike for us?
Speak for yourself, it speaks to me just fine. The KTM will have plenty of other things that I am sure will not excite you, especially when it breaks down or you need dealer support. Yes the European gourmet ADV bikes have great brakes and suspension, but plenty of other things can tarnish that real quick.
 

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Speak for yourself, it speaks to me just fine. The KTM will have plenty of other things that I am sure will not excite you, especially when it breaks down or you need dealer support. Yes the European gourmet ADV bikes have great brakes and suspension, but plenty of other things can tarnish that real quick.
Funny that you mentioned dealer support.
Yesterday I took the the bike to my private mechanic for a service. He is 40 minutes away from my house. I live in northern NJ, not the middle of nowhere exactly, and yet the two Suzuki dealers that existed here shut down last year. If Suzuki (and Japanese motorcycles in general) were such a hot commodity, one would expect another dealer to take over.
But what do you know, the KTM dealer is not far away from me and seems to be doing business just fine.

KTM had an amazing sales year, world wide but in the USA as well.
They are opening new dealerships quickly and expanding.
Uh-Oh BMW, KTM Had Its Best Sales-Year Ever in 2012

"Seeing 32% growth in its worldwide market, thanks in part to a 15% increase in the United States, as well as strong sales in India, KTM is rapidly transforming itself from a boutique brand and into a juggernaut in the motorcycle industry. "

There are other sites that can show you the same facts.

Suzuki used to be bold and daring. But now they are just re-using the same 10-15 year old formula instead of generating some new designs.

KTM could have taken the 996 and make it better, lighter, stronger etc.
Instead they looked at the market, put Ducati on their cross hairs and made a phenomenal bike that has the potential to be their best seller ever.

Aprilia also looked at the market and came out with a wonderful ADV bike, that too has a v-twin racing engine in its heart.

I like Suzuki since I was a child, and have nothing against the company, but one must try to apply critical thinking.
Surely there will be some people buying the new DL1000, maybe even many, but I don't see this model taking Suzuki into the next level.
They have neglected R&D in the last years, have no presence in MotoGP (Maybe 2015, who knows?), insignificant presence in World Superbike (remember that some ADV engines come from WSBK), and no impact in Dakar.

The DL650 is a much better seller for Suzuki, and there is a reason for that - it is much cheaper with almost the same components as the DL1000.
I can't see the new DL1000 competing with the new ADV bikes, and I can see the 800cc bikes (and soon Yamaha 900cc triple ADV) competing with it aggressively with their modern engines and design, weight, and probably better pricing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
A closed loop pollution mandated ECM gives you all the power modes and traction control with a switch. It can also give you more big end power where the sniffers don;t test.

There has never been a reason to tie displacement and cost. It is marketing BS. The factory cost of bigger engine and better suspension in the age of China is peanuts. I bet the real cost 650 to 1000 is no more than $200 the price is what the evil naked mole rats think the public will bear.

I am a cheap moron but looked for a UJM for cheap I paid 6600 out the door for my left over.

To bring it around.... and being am inginear myself I would have liked a little more touting of advancements and improvements some like inverted forks are obvious. I am troubled by their focus on the guy ripping off the Nike swoosh as some muse inspired art that for just a few sheckles (sp?) you can be privileged to possess

Eventually our little group of Stromtroopers will dissipate. Big motorcycles will actually decrease in numbers in North America and if the New Big Strom is really a turkey at a high cost this will happen even faster.

All the Jap companies are stupid if the think they can sell against the BMW faithful and KTM go fasts with a mere 20% savings
 

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You've got to remember why people buy a DL650 or similar, 'cos they don't want a great big lumpy bike. Most BMW R1200GS riders are wannabe posseurs and never have the nerve/ability to take it off the highway. Also, I notice the absence of the Moto Guzzi Stelvio, what a great bike this is, far better and capable than the Ducati 1200 and even better than the Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere. Yes BMW and KTM will always win out against the Kawasaki's, Yamaha's (unless it's the XT660 Tenere) and Suzuki V Strom 1000, but these same manufactures have managed to 'include' a huge number of riders that would otherwise never be able to enjoy adventure biking due to high buy-in costs. These are everyman bikes, not just those with lots of spare cash to play with at the weekends.
 

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You've got to remember why people buy a DL650 or similar, 'cos they don't want a great big lumpy bike. Most BMW R1200GS riders are wannabe posseurs and never have the nerve/ability to take it off the highway. Also, I notice the absence of the Moto Guzzi Stelvio, what a great bike this is, far better and capable than the Ducati 1200 and even better than the Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere. Yes BMW and KTM will always win out against the Kawasaki's, Yamaha's (unless it's the XT660 Tenere) and Suzuki V Strom 1000, but these same manufactures have managed to 'include' a huge number of riders that would otherwise never be able to enjoy adventure biking due to high buy-in costs. These are everyman bikes, not just those with lots of spare cash to play with at the weekends.
The fact is that the Euro manufacturers (BMW and KTM, Ducati and Triumph) are selling many motorcycles very well.
As for the rest, Suzuki is not selling the DL1000 well, from what I read and see the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200 is not a major sales hit, I think it is safe to say the Kawasaki Versys 1000 is a flop (an observation: have never seen one to date on the road), and the Guzzi is a rare collectors item at this point.

Posers or not, these middle aged men are the primary target for the Euro companies mentioned above (BMW/KTM/Ducati/Triumph) and Aprilia wants to join the exact same market. I expect the Caponord to be a major sales hit for Aprilia - it actually looks like what Suzuki should have done and has some resemblance IMO to the original V-Strom 'design'.
Piaggio, owner of Aprilia, was always the 'Suzuki' of Europe. Reliable machines for an affordable price.

The Japanese have a real leadership crisis - the days of Europe making unreliable Euro trash bikes are gone.
Europe has caught up with all the hi precision techniques that were so associated with Japan. It is true for cars, airplanes, and even space technology.
 

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The fact is that the Euro manufacturers (BMW and KTM, Ducati and Triumph) are selling many motorcycles very well.
As for the rest, Suzuki is not selling the DL1000 well, from what I read and see the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200 is not a major sales hit, I think it is safe to say the Kawasaki Versys 1000 is a flop (an observation: have never seen one to date on the road), and the Guzzi is a rare collectors item at this point.

Posers or not, these middle aged men are the primary target for the Euro companies mentioned above (BMW/KTM/Ducati/Triumph) and Aprilia wants to join the exact same market. I expect the Caponord to be a major sales hit for Aprilia - it actually looks like what Suzuki should have done and has some resemblance IMO to the original V-Strom 'design'.
Piaggio, owner of Aprilia, was always the 'Suzuki' of Europe. Reliable machines for an affordable price.

The Japanese have a real leadership crisis - the days of Europe making unreliable Euro trash bikes are gone.
Europe has caught up with all the hi precision techniques that were so associated with Japan. It is true for cars, airplanes, and even space technology
.

Cannot agree with that much, they are better for sure but still not up to par with the Japanese OR Americans. KTM dominates MX and for good reasons, they are a MX company that now is trying to make quality road bikes. Triumph IMHO is the company that impresses me the most, and a Tiger 800 is on my short list. BMW is hit or miss "big time" and that is the problem as I see it. So many of us will buy our cheap Stroms and simply spend a bit here and there to upgrade suspension and brakes, and they are every bit as good as the European offerings in many way. Reliability is still just not there with the gourmet bikes, hence why there are many ex BMW riders now on Stroms. Keep it simple and stupid, that works great for me and many others. The KLR has done quite well since it's introduction, and it still is a good seller. Perfect example of a bike that "just works", not perfect but pretty darn good. The Tsunami really hurt Japan in many ways but they are bouncing back, Suzuki is tiny compared to the other "big 3", so they have to be smart about thinking outside the box.
 

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BigB
Would you shell $13k for the new DL1000?
That's the bottom line question, IMO

I wouldn't
 

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The fact is that the Euro manufacturers (BMW and KTM, Ducati and Triumph) are selling many motorcycles very well.
As for the rest, Suzuki is not selling the DL1000 well, from what I read and see the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200 is not a major sales hit, I think it is safe to say the Kawasaki Versys 1000 is a flop (an observation: have never seen one to date on the road), and the Guzzi is a rare collectors item at this point.

Posers or not, these middle aged men are the primary target for the Euro companies mentioned above (BMW/KTM/Ducati/Triumph) and Aprilia wants to join the exact same market. I expect the Caponord to be a major sales hit for Aprilia - it actually looks like what Suzuki should have done and has some resemblance IMO to the original V-Strom 'design'.
Piaggio, owner of Aprilia, was always the 'Suzuki' of Europe. Reliable machines for an affordable price.

The Japanese have a real leadership crisis - the days of Europe making unreliable Euro trash bikes are gone.
Europe has caught up with all the hi precision techniques that were so associated with Japan. It is true for cars, airplanes, and even space technology.
Actually Moto Guzzi Stelvio has been a good success for the company, Aprilia and Ducati are just so over-priced for their reliability. BMW has been 'rush jobbing' the GS for the last 9 years that they have tons of problems with sub-standard build and corrosion issues. KTM should have had the GS's kudos but at the last minute they pulled out of lending a couple of guys their machines for a 'Long Way Down' trip and hence the GS success story was written. I love the looks of the Italian bikes, but would I throw my money at one (other than the Stelvio)? NO. For my money as a second or third bike to leave out in all weathers, the DL650 will fit the bill for now.
 

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Actually Moto Guzzi Stelvio has been a good success for the company, Aprilia and Ducati are just so over-priced for their reliability. BMW has been 'rush jobbing' the GS for the last 9 years that they have tons of problems with sub-standard build and corrosion issues. KTM should have had the GS's kudos but at the last minute they pulled out of lending a couple of guys their machines for a 'Long Way Down' trip and hence the GS success story was written. I love the looks of the Italian bikes, but would I throw my money at one (other than the Stelvio)? NO. For my money as a second or third bike to leave out in all weathers, the DL650 will fit the bill for now.
Your conclusion is irrelevant to the discussion here
When one wants to move to a newer big ADV, DL 650 will not be the solution

KTM is Austrian, not Italian
these guys make top quality, reliable motorcycles that win races, Dakar in particular, year after year
 

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BigB
Would you shell $13k for the new DL1000?
That's the bottom line question, IMO

I wouldn't
Yup.......and we do not know everything about the bike yet. I doubt it will be that much anyways, and I think it will be a big seller for Suzuki, and make many of us 1000 owners very happy.

Yeah KTM wins allot of Dakar and other offroad races, "on road" reliability and longevity is a whole other thing. So when you getting the new KTM 1190 Adventure?
 
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