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Discussion Starter #1
Went to dealer today and viewed and sat on both 650 and 1000 and am more seriously considering 1000 since I 2-up 85% and 650 seat will just make do for my inseam.

In my web post research so far it appears that 650 did not have many issues but some 1000 had problems with clutch basket and rough fuel delivery problems.

Should I be concerned about the clutch basket problem or poor fuel delivery for 1000 or are these things that Suzuki has sorted out with the newer models? If so what years are potentially problematic? I see discussion about the PCIII fixing fuel delivery and tweaking even good running factory setups. Is that needed for the 1000 in any event and what sort of investement is involved (have not had time to learn about them but do all my own wrenching so should not be difficult for me).

BTW - sales guy did not seem to know a lot technically: I noted to him that 650 seat would allow me to consider the 1000 as it was lower and he was not even aware of that (seems that would be a good sales tidbit).
 

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I would get the newest you can afford. Pre 04 had clutch issues and a non adjustable shield. 05's had ECM issues. Now after saying that, none of the issues are worth missing a good deal over.
The 06's and 07's, seem to be set up well, they just need some adjustments done as the factory/dealer doesn't seem to do them. TBS, Secondaty throttle plates, and TPS. These are simple to do with the info on this site. Total time to do all would be 1 to 2 hours for a NEW VEE owner. The hardest part would be pulling off the plastic.
 

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There are a lot of people on this forum that will tell you that a PCIII is a "must" for the 1000. I'm not going to argue with them but I will say that I've put 11,000 miles on my '08 DL1000 since I bought it in April without a powercommander and have no plans to buy one. The only issue I've had with my bike so far is a mirror that wouldn't stay adjusted. I synced the TB's at ~3000 miles and did see an improvement in low rpm performance. I do my own work, so the total cost was ~15 minutes of my time.
 

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I will state unequivocably that the Clutch basket problem is pre 2004. and that the dealer can @ any time yosh your 1000 to adjust any Lean fuel issues . I have over 30,500 miles on my 05 and I would not trade it for any bike on the market...:D
 

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Repaires

:pI have a 02 with 15000 on it. The clutch basket was replaced with newer model and I run the TRD. My Vstrome is just as smoth as my buddy,s bike and he got the power commnder.[/B]
 

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There are a lot of people on this forum that will tell you that a PCIII is a "must" for the 1000. I'm not going to argue with them ..............
Agreed. All I've ever done keep to my early 06 running smooth is maintain the TB synch. Will it ever purr like a Bandit? I doubt it, but as a reasonably large bore V-twin I don't expect it too. I'd sell the bike before I resorted to a PCIII.

A question that has always intrigued me is how many 1 K'ers actually do use PC's. What % of all 1000 owners actually post here? And of those that do, what % have gone the PC route? And of those that have, what % was because they absolutely have had to? I ride with 5 other litrebike owners here, and none of them have ever indicated the need for a PCIII. Not looking for a debate, just food for thought.

There are probably some guys that absolutely did need them, perhaps due to having a defective ECU, or the climate where they live. There is also probably a group that went that route trying to improve what they had and make some more oomph. And I imagine that there is another group that bought them because they got the impression from this forum that it was a must do (a la axle spacers). There is likely another segment that came off another type of bike and like to run their bikes in the 2500 rpm range most of the time, and wonder why their bikes protest a bit on occasion.

Before BigB and others jump on me, I know the 1K is lean from the factory. But I am willing to bet that in most cases it is manageable if a person takes care of the basics first.
 

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WeThereYet....Your points were very well taken....the 2004/2005 models seem to have the worst fueling. "Sporadic" problems with the 06 models but the 07/08 models appear to be dialed in pretty good. I didn't need a PCIII until I got exhausts, but I did need the Yoshimura box mapping. I did all the necessary adjustments before I remapped, and the lean surge hiccup was still present. I'm sure my ECM is an affected unit that could get swapped, but I am running great with the PCIII. Really ridiculous that Harley can get their FI systems running practically flawless, and Suzuki seems to not give a crap "with the Stroms".
 

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Discussion Starter #9
marku

Thanks WTY and BB. Sounds like the clutch basket is NP after 2004 and FI is set up better after 06. This factors in to my considering the 1000 Vs 650 as I assume now I will probably not have to play with a newer 1000 just to get it to run right. I am looking both new (my preference - still trying to get a test ride) and used with low miles.

This is a great website. I like the idea of these tweaking toys but since they are all new to me (i.e. current bike is 83 R80ST with carbs and tappets) I need to research before I consider them, but nice to have the option to dial in more performance. But will the tweaking void a warranty? Makes me wonder if a 650 could get tweaked with slightly louder than stock exhaust (I don’t like loud ones) and mapping to gain a bit more grunt to make 2-up mountain riding better.

Today I am calling on a 2008 650 with a GIPro Gear Indicator w/ATRE installed. I would not have needed a gear indicator and reading stuff at GIPro wonder if the ATRE is a good thing or not.
 

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Went to dealer today and viewed and sat on both 650 and 1000 and am more seriously considering 1000 since I 2-up 85% and 650 seat will just make do for my inseam.

In my web post research so far it appears that 650 did not have many issues but some 1000 had problems with clutch basket and rough fuel delivery problems.

Should I be concerned about the clutch basket problem or poor fuel delivery for 1000 or are these things that Suzuki has sorted out with the newer models? If so what years are potentially problematic? I see discussion about the PCIII fixing fuel delivery and tweaking even good running factory setups. Is that needed for the 1000 in any event and what sort of investement is involved (have not had time to learn about them but do all my own wrenching so should not be difficult for me).

BTW - sales guy did not seem to know a lot technically: I noted to him that 650 seat would allow me to consider the 1000 as it was lower and he was not even aware of that (seems that would be a good sales tidbit).
I've an '07 Vee. Almost 4,000 miles on it. No clutch basket problem but clutch is too switch like (on or off) for slow stuff. It does modulate fine for street use. Fuelling is still an issue. Mine surges at steady throttle between 3,000 to around 4,000 rpm. right at highway cruising speed in sixth gear. More conserting is mine has stalled a dozen times when decelerating. pull in the clutch for 3rd to 2nd and it just shut off. What's bad is dealer say Suzuki has no fix, plans no fix, and these behaviors are just "normal" for the bike. My dealer seems more willing to work with me than Suzuki does. Yay Malcolm Smith Motorsports. Since you ride two up, your passenger will most likely be disappointed with the vibration in the passenger pegs. Very high frequency vibation, kind of like and Eager Beaver weed eater, that will put feet to sleep. Rider pegs have virtually no vibes. My 11 year old son hates riding on the back of this thing. He's fine on all other bike I've had. I won a set of older Sportster pegs, the really soft mushy ones off the previous generation, on e-bay. Hopefully they'll hide the vibes. The Wee seat is indeed a little lower and narrower in the front. Makes it easier to reach the ground of course. It will fit the Vee. But from what I've read here neither are a good long distance seat. Lot's of little querks with this bike that you either get used to or just put up with or spend a lot of money trying to fix. As you've read wind buffeting is an issue. Some guys have tried five different shields at $150 to $250 a pop to no avail. To be honest, if this 4,000 miles could be a test ride I would have returned it 2,000 miles ago. I DO NOT like getting used to things. That's why I don't drink coffee. It should work right out of its box not finally work out of many after market boxes. There's something to said about adding farkles to personalize and suite a specific agenda. But, farkles as "fixes"? Doesn't cut it in my book.
 

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Vstrom 1000

I've a 2007 Vstrom 1000, purchased new in Sept 2007 and I've ridden it 20,000km in it's first year.

No problems.

Vstrom rock !
 

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Fuelling is still an issue. Mine surges at steady throttle between 3,000 to around 4,000 rpm. right at highway cruising speed in sixth gear. More conserting is mine has stalled a dozen times when decelerating. pull in the clutch for 3rd to 2nd and it just shut off. What's bad is dealer say Suzuki has no fix, plans no fix, and these behaviors are just "normal" for the bike. My dealer seems more willing to work with me than Suzuki does.

As you've read wind buffeting is an issue. Some guys have tried five different shields at $150 to $250 a pop to no avail.
Firstly, your dealer is an idiot. Turn up your idle and make sure your TBS is spot on. Combine that with a clean and lubed chain and I'm willing to bet your vibes will be gone.

Also put a Givi shield on it. Best of all shields. (My opinion only, please don't debate.)

If you haven't done this, or can't do it, you are not meant for this bike. The Vee is perfect for some right out of the box, but not for everyone. Some people require different levels of tweaking to make it just right for them.

The Vee is all about sensory overload. It's noisy, it's unrefined, it smells but most of all it exites all your senses. it feels like a V-Twin should.

Sounds like a Gold Wing is for you.
 

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Time to find another dealer. These behaviors are not normal to every Vee.

it's not my dealer. It was a service buletin from suzuki. My dealer is great. owned and operated by famed Malcolm Smith. they tell me that if the problem persists they will take care of me. you will not find better service than his shop and he personally will listen to you and see to it that you are treated right. Suzuki blows. fix a brand new bike? should never have left Japan. and for SUZUJI to say it is "normal"? it's funny that if the kind of issues that i mention here were mentioned about Harley or Ford or GM or Dodge i would get comments more in the whaline of "that's t you get for buying HD FoMoCo, bowtie, or Mopar. IF there is a solution for the stalling and the surging, i have every bit of confidence that Malcolm's boys and girls will get it right. Even without Suzuki's backing. as for the vibration maybe decent tune will solve that, maybe it's poor engineering. either way it's Suzuki's fault. when I take it in for the next service we'll see. but for a brand new vehicle from a Japanese company, sorry i am not impressed.
 

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I freakin love this bike...cost me $50 for a quick pc tune and I only did that to see if it could smooth it out a tad and it did but I lost a bit of top end torque so its a trade off...didnt really need anything.
2up its awesome...be better when the Givi shield and Madstad get here :D
Not one loose thing in 6000 km's...not a drop of oil...nothing but a chain tighten and lube...this aint no KLR ;)
I think some guys think this bike should be like there former 4 cylinder cruiser...its plenty smooth enough zipping down a curvy road on a sunny day passing every cruiser I see like they were dragging boat anchors ;):D
 

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Firstly, your dealer is an idiot. Turn up your idle and make sure your TBS is spot on. Combine that with a clean and lubed chain and I'm willing to bet your vibes will be gone.

Also put a Givi shield on it. Best of all shields. (My opinion only, please don't debate.)

If you haven't done this, or can't do it, you are not meant for this bike. The Vee is perfect for some right out of the box, but not for everyone. Some people require different levels of tweaking to make it just right for them.

The Vee is all about sensory overload. It's noisy, it's unrefined, it smells but most of all it exites all your senses. it feels like a V-Twin should.

Sounds like a Gold Wing is for you.
Please see my other reply about my dealer.

sorry to burst your bubble but i'm not a Wing man. I've been riding for 25 years cose to 2/3 of my life. i've put 15,000 miles on a 50cc scooter in one year. i've had more than my fair share of iron butts on bikes that were not made for them. I know about sensory overload.
I'm not going to debate you about YOUR satisfaction of YOUR Givi windshield. I'm glad you like it. I've read many opinions on all available windshields for this bike. I'm not going to drop at least $100 on a maybe cure when it really shouldn't even be an issue. I owned a '92 TDM850. half faired, small nonadjustable windshield, very similar bike and ergos. NO buffeting at all. that bike was such a pleasure to ride. Suzuki knows the buffeting is an issue. that's why they TRIED to fix by making it adjustable. too bad they sell it as a "feature" instead of really fixing it. kind of like Ford selling their rear door "safety" windows that only roll down half way when in reality they were too cheap to figure out how to get them all the way down in lieu of the rear fender wells. some smart marketing dude said "I know, we'll sell it as a safety feature." It was a flaw and so is the windshield on the V-Strom. I simply want something to function as it's supposed to. put on a fairing and windshield, then block the wind. don't stir it up and throw it in my face.
I'm plenty capable of following the TBS instructions. Not my job. If it were a used bike with more than a few thousand miles sure. But new, with factory warrantee, Suzuki's going to have to step up.
marku asked a question about issues with the Vee. these are mine. if you don't have any, let him know. he'll read all comments and make a decision. But i tell you that if I had researched and read all these issues that NEW owners needed to do to their machines i would have shopped elswhere. But like i said in another reply, i am confident that my "idiot" dealer will take care of me
 

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Discussion Starter #17
test ride observations

It was useful to read the above before the test today. I have some observations after a short 2-up test ride of a DL650 today -as it was my first Vstrom ride and short ride so not every thing sorted out. Bear with me as I've been riding the same R80ST for 25 years so some observations may just be a much different feel – but are a reference point for me now). The 650 test did not sell me on the spot but gave me stuff to think about.

1- Stock windshield OK for me (maybe I am just used to buffeting) – probably would also try Givi
2- clutch seemed very hard to feather at low speed (immediate weak on and then grab)
3- Not as nimble as I expected based on reviews (my bike is reference)
4- Nice smooth long power curve but not real strong until 5K (but surprisingly after I lost track of shift by accident did start out from slow roll in 3rd with no whimper – impressed).
5- I thought very smooth running and wife did with rear pegs also (no vibes)
6 – front seat felt thin and hard – Wife liked wide back seat – but--
7 – wife short arms could not reach pillion handles and did not feel comfortable (used to bar behind – not sure of solution)
8 - brakes strong enough with good pull but not a good even feel at slight braking or in between (probably get used to)
9- He had set up with 1-1/8” lower rear link and tubes in stock position – said he raised front by upping preload. The lowering was nice for flat feet but I would probably not go beyond ¾” links as --I am guessing here --but given there were risers available I would have also lowered the front 1” and then adjusted preload to taste. I am guessing test setup could have affected the nimbleness and/or maybe I need to get used to the bike (still made me respect my old fart ST a bit as it is much more nimble).
10- The engine acted a bit jerky at low RPMs in slow situations and not sure why or if it was just me (chain was dry but adjusted correct – been so long since I had a chain not sure if that means a darn thing -- just observation)

Minor problem was a lot of 35 and 45-mph speed zones. I was still a bit dumb and thought there might be some break-in issues (3K miles) so told owner (real nice guy) I would not rev up much and I did not get into the curve much or above 6.5K. However, I could feel the power pull start and can imagine the quickness that seems good 2-up for 650 with a wide power curve. Have to say I am still interested in the 1,000 because even my old ST with 85k and original engine parts seemed to have more torque pull in mid-range. I am guessing if I headed to the hills with 2-up the 650 would do OK but would be spinning pretty quick in the mountains and out of curves to keep a brisk touring pace – I’ll just need to sort that out.

Centerstand – I am torn about even ¾” links as I want a centerstand. Owner said he could not rig up but I have read at owner sites that they did ¾” links and still could use centerstand. Is that true? I might want that amount of lowering to feel more secure with my inseam – but then will I need to worry about cornering 2-up (I do ride corners hard).

I may test ride some other bikes (F650GS, F800ST) but Vstrom may still be end choice because of saddle for my wife, decent touring feel, many dealers across county, economical (not major issue). I just need to sort out height/clearance, my wife’s hanging on, and if those then the 650/1000 issue although either power plant might do.

Thanks for all the input.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
test ride observations

It was useful to read the above before the test today. I have some observations after a short 2-up test ride of a DL650 today -as it was my first Vstrom ride and short ride so not every thing sorted out. Bear with me as I've been riding the same R80ST for 25 years so some observations may just be a much different feel – but are a reference point for me now). The 650 test did not sell me on the spot but gave me stuff to think about.

1- Stock windshield OK for me (maybe I am just used to buffeting) – probably would also try Givi
2- clutch seemed very hard to feather at low speed (immediate weak on and then grab)
3- Not as nimble as I expected based on reviews (my bike is reference)
4- Nice smooth long power curve but not real strong until 5K (but surprisingly after I lost track of shift by accident did start out from slow roll in 3rd with no whimper – impressed).
5- I thought very smooth running and wife did with rear pegs also (no vibes)
6 – front seat felt thin and hard – Wife liked wide back seat – but--
7 – wife short arms could not reach pillion handles and did not feel comfortable (used to bar behind – not sure of solution)
8 - brakes strong enough with good pull but not a good even feel at slight braking or in between (probably get used to)
9- He had set up with 1-1/8” lower rear link and tubes in stock position – said he raised front by upping preload. The lowering was nice for barely flat feet but I would probably not go beyond ¾” links as --I am guessing here --given there were risers available I would have also lowered the front 1” and then adjusted preload to taste. I am guessing test setup could have affected the nimbleness and/or maybe I need to get used to the bike (still made me respect my old fart ST a bit as it is much more nimble).
10- The engine acted a bit jerky at low RPMs in slow situations and not sure why or if it was just me (chain was very dry but adjusted correct – been so long since I had a chain not sure if that means a darn thing -- just observation)

Minor problem was a lot of 35 and 45-mph speed zones. I was still a bit dumb and thought there might be some break-in issues (3K miles) so told owner (real nice guy) I would not rev up much and I did not get into the curve much or above 6.5K. However, I could feel the power pull start and can imagine the quickness that seems good 2-up for 650 with a wide power curve. Have to say I am still interested in the 1,000 because even my old ST with 85k and original engine parts seemed to have more torque pull in mid-range. I am guessing if I headed to the hills with 2-up the 650 would do OK but would be spinning pretty quick in the mountains and out of curves to keep a brisk touring pace – I’ll just need to sort that out.

Centerstand – I am torn about even ¾” links as I want a centerstand. Owner said he could not rig up but I have read at owner sites that they did ¾” links and still could use centerstand. Is that true? I might want that amount of lowering to feel more secure with my inseam – but then will I need to worry about cornering 2-up? (I do ride corners hard)

I may test ride some other bikes (F650GS, F800ST) but Vstrom may still be end choice because of saddle for my wife, decent touring feel, many dealers across county, economical (not biggest issue). I just need to sort out height/clearance, my wife’s hanging on, and if those then the 650/1000 issue although either power plant might do.

Thanks for all the input.
 

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I have my bike lowered 3/4" front and back and have no trouble using the centerstand with two 36 liter side cases and a 45 liter top case all filled. I'm a 63 year old retired desk jockey. With stock height, the bike doesn't have to be lifted when bare. Standing on the centerstand tang with my 200lb geared up weight would put the bike up.
 

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sorry to burst your bubble but i'm not a Wing man......

I'm not going to debate you about YOUR satisfaction of YOUR Givi windshield. I'm glad you like it.

marku asked a question about issues with the Vee. these are mine. if you don't have any, let him know.

But i tell you that if I had researched and read all these issues that NEW owners needed to do to their machines i would have shopped elswhere. But like i said in another reply, i am confident that my "idiot" dealer will take care of me
It will take more than that to burst my bubble.

Good. It is my opinion, that's why I asked for no debate. A comment like "xxxx is the best" usually erupts into a verbal colon blow around here.

If you didn't want anyone to respond with their opinions to your original post, perhaps you should have said so.

But lastly, I don't think you will ever be happy with this bike. They are what they are and Suzuki has dropped the ball on many issues, including customer care. I agree they should step up and make it right, but that likely won't happen. So the rest of us who see real potential in this bike have kicked the dealer out of the equation and fixed them up the way we want them. Is it right, no. Is it reality, yes. Sell your bike, or join the rest of us in doing your own tinkering.

In any event, much todoo about nothng. Looks like the OP will be buying a Wee.
 
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