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Discussion Starter #1
Any changes from 04 to 05 (DL1000) with regard to using the Haynes manual?? What's a girl to do if there's no 05 specific info published?? What are you 05 owners using?

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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What's a "Haynes Manual?" Is it an aftermarket publication? I just finished requesting a new Suzuki shop manual for mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
spongebob218 said:
You can download the whole service manual here : http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/VStrom.html .
There are also online parts catalogs.
Thanks VERY much for the link! :D
I do prefer the hardback especially since I can throw it in my tank bag. Oh, and I'm very partial to the Haynes manuals since the pictures are quite helpful for those of us w/the mechanical knowledge of a banana! :wink:

So, my original question... can I safely refer to the Haynes DL1000 2002-2004 manual for issues w/my K5???? Basically, does anyone know specifically what is different??
 

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service manuals

Stromette,

Far as I know the only difference between your K5 and my K4 is the color. If anyone else knows otherwise I would certainly stand corrected.

As for the matter of the "online" service manual, that link does take you to a posted copy of the factory manual. As someone who is in the publishing business, I can guess that manual is not public domain. It is a product of someone's work. That's what they do for a living. It is not free and should not be posted without of the permission of the owner. Since the big S still sells this book for profit, I don't think they've agreed to let anyone give it away.

It's pretty handy to get the information immediately and for free, but you know what? It's stealing. Of course as someone who publishes and sells books for a living, I am a bit biased here but stealing is stealing. I am not going to tell Suzuki those links are there but sooner or later they're going to find out and they'll likely take action against the responsible parties.

Just my two cents, thanks for letting me vent.

Jeff
 
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Re: service manuals

MWValley said:
It's pretty handy to get the information immediately and for free, but you know what? It's stealing. Of course as someone who publishes and sells books for a living, I am a bit biased here but stealing is stealing. I am not going to tell Suzuki those links are there but sooner or later they're going to find out and they'll likely take action against the responsible parties.

Just my two cents, thanks for letting me vent.

Jeff
In all actuality, the verbage in the manual doesn't imply any usage restrictions. A general copyright provides protection from copying for profit or enhancement of the said copyright for profit without prior permission.

Examples are CD and movies; where they will explicitly inform you that you can not in any way copy the media except for personal backup reasons.

Now people that sell on eBay are breaking the law. Making available manuals with a generic copyright amongst each other is not infringment, and I've even had both Honda and Kawasaki inform me verbally that it was okay during times where they were out of certain manuals for their newest motorcycles.
 

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Sandyeggo,

If you made your living writing (and selling) such books and found someone had posted your book on the internet for folks to read for free, would you care?

Jeff
 
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MWValley said:
Sandyeggo,

If you made your living writing (and selling) such books and found someone had posted your book on the internet for folks to read for free, would you care?

Jeff
If I cared I would place a legally binding copyright statement in my book to prohibit any inferred and allowed usage.

Suzuki isn't in the manual-selling business; they probably break even at the cost so they probably aren't worried; hence the minimal copyright verbage that will NOT stand up in court for shared usage and reproduction with no compensatory requirement.

The first question to ask is; "What are your copyright restrictions, and were are they outlined". It has to be printed in the book.

Likely answer is; "The simplified copyright disallows someone besides Suzuki America Corp to make money by the reproduction of our manual.". Any other uses are implied.

That is the only protection they have in place with the standard copyright with no other written details.
 
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You can bet your butt, that I will download the online manual!! :wink: And, I will buy a hardback version too!!! See... no money will be lost!
 

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Sandyeggo,

I didn't mean to wind you up. Do what you like.

I have a copy of the Suzuki factory book and Haynes H4038.
Paid for them both.

Wrench well,

Jeff
 

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The aforementioned site with the manual link might well be considered a commercial concern since IMHO it exists to sell their windshield. All it will really take to get the link deleted is a note from Suzuki's attorneys threatening legal action. Even if Suzuki has a weak case they can in all likelyhood "expense" that link away.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I also paid for both manuals as well so I don't feel like I cheated anyone.

Since you write these things can I request that you put MORE PICS in them for those of us who are complete mechanical morons. Stromette likes pics!! Oh, and torque settings in FT LBS would be quite helpful too. :p
 

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Stromette,

My company pulishes motorcycle books but not model-specific manuals a la Clymers and Haynes fer instance. Haynes is a Brit company so you're going to get a slew of international units of measure in their books. Clymers is a US firm, so you're more likely to see inches, pounds, and the like in their books.

As for pictures? We are right there with you. In our excellent (if I do say so) book, The Essential Guide to Motorcycle Maintenance, there are HUNDREDS of clear, full-color images. Nothing conveys more information than a good image. In fact this is such a great book, I am going to send one to Stromtro so he can offer it up as a monthly contest prize. I am already sending Motorcycling Excellence Second Edition by the MSF as a prize so I'll add the Essential Guide to the package. There! How's that?!

Ride well,

Jeff
 
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MWValley said:
Sandyeggo,

I didn't mean to wind you up. Do what you like.

I have a copy of the Suzuki factory book and Haynes H4038.
Paid for them both.

Wrench well,

Jeff
I'm not wound up... I'm a copyright attorney! :D
 

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Ah, nothing like a good discussion about intellectual property law!

While I am not an attorney (only one in the family for three gens that isn't) I am playing a amateur attorney right now in a potential copyright infringement case. Wanna here more? PM me. I will tip you off that a large soft drink company sent me (actually my wife) a letter a few days ago and it wasn't for something free. :lol: BTW, we did nothing wrong, but the big corporate bully thinks so.

I did work for a Hallmark Cards subsidiary for 5 years as my first gig out of college. I was their EHS pro, but took a keen interest in learning about many other aspects of the company. I spent a lot of time gaining knowledge about licensing, specifically how we licensed artist's products (not limited to greeting cards). I gained a new respect for copywrite and trademark infringements.

I am positive that sandyeggo can give us some interesting info regarding what is going on in China now with counterfeit goods.

Personally, I will not download or buy pirated copies of anything. I do have the Haynes Manual and like stromette mentioned, it fits right in my Touratech cases when I go on a trip. It carries much better than my laptop with electronic manual.



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I am positive that sandyeggo can give us some interesting info regarding what is going on in China now with counterfeit goods.
Oh, now there's a huge mess...

How can you hold citizens/businesses accountable when the Country doesn't...

It will be interesting to see how things develop: Infringement of copyrights and counterfeit products is a major driver of the economy in China right now, and the government is fine with it... :roll:
 

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China is killing many of our industries in Indiana. Southern Indiana's economy has been driven by furniture manufacturing for the last one hundred years. Many of the large companies have fallen victim to the replication in China and were forced to close.

A personal story about China. My father in law decided to make some minuture tractor seats ( I won't bore you with the details). It was a novel idea but he ran into a licensing issue (ah the irony) and the project failed. But he did have the seats cast at a foundry in Terre Haute, IN. He realized it was cheaper to send the cast seats to China to have them painted. I was shocked that he was able to send them to China, have them painted, sent back all in less than three weeks for a significant savings from what could have been done in the US.

What have we done to ourselves.

BTW, many books (in the spirit of the original topic) are being printed in China now.



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Re: service manuals

MWValley said:
Stromette,

Far as I know the only difference between your K5 and my K4 is the color. If anyone else knows otherwise I would certainly stand corrected.

As for the matter of the "online" service manual, that link does take you to a posted copy of the factory manual. As someone who is in the publishing business, I can guess that manual is not public domain. It is a product of someone's work. That's what they do for a living. It is not free and should not be posted without of the permission of the owner. Since the big S still sells this book for profit, I don't think they've agreed to let anyone give it away.

It's pretty handy to get the information immediately and for free, but you know what? It's stealing. Of course as someone who publishes and sells books for a living, I am a bit biased here but stealing is stealing. I am not going to tell Suzuki those links are there but sooner or later they're going to find out and they'll likely take action against the responsible parties.

Just my two cents, thanks for letting me vent.

Jeff
Jeff, I pm'd you.

Hutch
 
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