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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was leaving work last night and had a big problem,,,, basically when I pulled in to get fuel, I noticed the rear brake was pretty much useless. When I stopped at the pump I discovered I had a huge oil leak. Couldn't tell exactly where the oil was coming from but it looked like it was emanating from behind the sprocket cover. In any event, it was huge, basically it was coming out at such a volume that it had to be from a pressurized area.

I'll find out later exactly where it's coming from but here is the bottom line, I know it ran out of oil. I checked the window and could see no oil even when leaned way over towards the window side. I added two quarts of oil and cranked it just long enough to ride it up on my trailer and it pretty much spewed out that quart in just the amount of time it took to pull it on the trailer. I have no idea how long I ran it low on oil {roughly 5 minutes from work to that gas station} but judging by the severity and volume of that leak, I definitely ran it totally dry.

If,,,,,, if I have damaged the engine is the SV560 engine basically a direct bolt in? If so, what years do I need to look for? If I'm going to spring for another engine I want the most bang for my buck an a SV650 engine has different cams and I think, larger throttle bodies so I could pick up another 10hp or so for basically the same money.

If it isn't a bolt in,,,,, where can I go to get some good info on some parts bin engineering between the SV engine and the DL? I want reliable but since it looks like I will be spending money anyway, I would like to improve the power so I would like to investigate boring, cams and some head work if,,,,, if I elect to rebuild the engine I have vs buying a low mile SV650 to swap in. I refuse to spend alot on this since I bought the thing for a whoppin 3800$ several years ago but I do have it modded up fairly well and have time and money invested in it. I have spent another say 1-1.5K$ over the years on suspension upgrades. Would prefer not to part it out but if I see myself spending more than say,,,,, 2-2.5K$ on this, I'll part it out and buy a used KTM 950/990 Adventure or a used Tiger 800.

BTW,,,,, I think it has right around 70K miles on it right now. I had a huge countershaft leak a couple years ago while on a trip up north. Believe it or not, huge doses of "Engine Stop Leak" snake oil helped swell the seal and minimize the leak untill I got home and had it changed out. Since the leak seems to be emanating from behind that countershaft sprocket again,,,,, I'm thinking the seal has failed again for some reason???? What's are some of your {the collective's} ideas on on the origin of this mess?
 

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I was leaving work last night and had a big problem,,,, basically when I pulled in to get fuel, I noticed the rear brake was pretty much useless. When I stopped at the pump I discovered I had a huge oil leak. Couldn't tell exactly where the oil was coming from but it looked like it was emanating from behind the sprocket cover. In any event, it was huge, basically it was coming out at such a volume that it had to be from a pressurized area.

I'll find out later exactly where it's coming from but here is the bottom line, I know it ran out of oil. I checked the window and could see no oil even when leaned way over towards the window side. I added two quarts of oil and cranked it just long enough to ride it up on my trailer and it pretty much spewed out that quart in just the amount of time it took to pull it on the trailer. I have no idea how long I ran it low on oil {roughly 5 minutes from work to that gas station} but judging by the severity and volume of that leak, I definitely ran it totally dry.

If,,,,,, if I have damaged the engine is the SV560 engine basically a direct bolt in? If so, what years do I need to look for? If I'm going to spring for another engine I want the most bang for my buck an a SV650 engine has different cams and I think, larger throttle bodies so I could pick up another 10hp or so for basically the same money.

If it isn't a bolt in,,,,, where can I go to get some good info on some parts bin engineering between the SV engine and the DL? I want reliable but since it looks like I will be spending money anyway, I would like to improve the power so I would like to investigate boring, cams and some head work if,,,,, if I elect to rebuild the engine I have vs buying a low mile SV650 to swap in. I refuse to spend alot on this since I bought the thing for a whoppin 3800$ several years ago but I do have it modded up fairly well and have time and money invested in it. I have spent another say 1-1.5K$ over the years on suspension upgrades. Would prefer not to part it out but if I see myself spending more than say,,,,, 2-2.5K$ on this, I'll part it out and buy a used KTM 950/990 Adventure or a used Tiger 800.

BTW,,,,, I think it has right around 70K miles on it right now. I had a huge countershaft leak a couple years ago while on a trip up north. Believe it or not, huge doses of "Engine Stop Leak" snake oil helped swell the seal and minimize the leak untill I got home and had it changed out. Since the leak seems to be emanating from behind that countershaft sprocket again,,,,, I'm thinking the seal has failed again for some reason???? What's are some of your {the collective's} ideas on on the origin of this mess?
Yes, the SV engine will bolt in. It'll be easier if you get the wiring loom throttle bodies, ECU and airbox (sensors) as well. Check VSRI - you'll find some step by steps I think.

The Gladius engine (newer, more powerful) LOOKS like it'll also fit.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Couldn't I just swap in the SV engine and throttle bodies then use something like a power commander to play with the additional fuel requirements? Or does the the throttle bodies have electrical connectors that don't match up? I want this to be as easy as possible {yea, I know nothing will be as easy as swapping in the corrcet DL engine} and swapping out harnesses and computers just sounds like more work.

BTW,,, what is VSRI?
 

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I've never heard of anyone swapping an SV engine into a DL in the 650 size. It has been done in the 1000. SV Engine Swap & chassis overhaul
"Simple" is a word that may not appear anywhere in the process. It takes a lot more than engine mount bolts lining up to work.
 

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If your rengine was still running, not makeing all kinds of noise, etc. There is a good chance you didn't do any damage. You may have gotten it shut down before damage was done.You won't know until you either tear it down, or fix it and run it a bit.
 

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Blowing oil out the countershaft seal? I've had this problem on my DR 650 - twice, a dangerous situation. Jesse of Kientech Engineering Home Page provided me with a solution which I used and though I don't put the miles on it like I used to I think it's done the job. I was worried about damage the oil loss may have caused also but it seems to be fine. After thoroughly cleaning the area and preferably using a new seal I used JB Weld in a series of small elongated blobs radially around the outside edge of the seal in contact with the seal and the case. I may have 5 or 6 evenly spaced around outer part of the seal. Get the idea? He recommended some other product but I had the JB Weld.
A mechanic I spoke with thought a high mileage engine with worn rings may contribute to an increase in pressure in the bottom end. Also check that any breather lines aren't clogged. I had about 50k on my DR.
Give Jesse a call, tell him your situation, he is very helpful.
Anyway there is a possible solution for you. And good luck.
 

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FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
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It could have blown the clutch pushrod seal or the countershaft seal.
 

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OIL LIGHT?

You didn't mention seeing the oil light. If the oil light never came on, then it probably had oil flowing while it was running. Remember that, while you never want to run it out of specs on purpose, the 5 mile you road it with oil spewing out should not have hurt the engine as long as it was still pumping oil (i.e. good pressure).

You can loose the vast majority of the oil in the system before the sump pick-up starts sucking air...and the oil light comes on.:fineprint:

ID/Fix the leak and you may be good to go!
 

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Last year, in 2010, after a day long ride with a passenger, I discovered that there was a severe leak seeming to emanate from the countershaft sprocket. Lost some oil but not that much. Countershaft oil seal and also, the small o-ring seal beneath the oil seal were shot. The clutch rod seal was also ''sweating'' a little. Got everything changed, including the clutch rod, by my mechanic. Cost about 200$ cdn, parts and labor. The bike had about 30 000 miles on it. Not much in my opinion. What I believe happened is that the chain got adjusted too tight by the last one who installed a new tire, which was just a week or so before the leak appeared. Riding two up for a prolonged period kept a severe tension on a worn seal that just quit.

Kept the chain more into specs after that, no more leak prolems, 10 000 miles later. So, I would advise to investigate a little more before going to a complet and expensive engine swap.
 

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Find the problem

FIX somewhat then run and listen

You will hear piston slap and big end bearings if bad

There was a guy who ran a 600 I4 for 6 hours with the oil drained to see how long it took to blow up
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the advice. I haven't had a chance to even look at it and I think I'm just going to give it to a local mechanic to check out. I did not notice an oil light but to be honest, that doesn't mean alot. I spun a bearing in my car while open tracking due to oil starvation caused by extremely hard cornering and braking. Never once did the idiot light come on and the stupid oil gauge had been dumbed down so that it would react very slowly so that idiots {John and Jane Q. Public} wouldn't freak when the needle moved.

Judging by how fast it pumped out the quart of oil I put in it so I could crank it and pull it up on the trailer, I'm betting dollars to donuts that it puked out all it's oil and lost pressure. Now, whether that will result in engine damage is the question. Since Murphy knows me on a first hand basis, I always assume the worst and I'm pleasantly surprised if he gets bored with bothering me.

As far as the swap,,,, I'm pretty sure they are basically the same engine with different cam specs, throttle bodies and of course, different ECU settings. If, if,,,,,, I need another engine I would really like to pick up a low mile SV engine and pick up an instant 10hp or so. I'll probably pick up another couple SV exhaust cams to replace the intakes and pick up another 2-4hp. While the valve cover and cams are off, I'll probably bore it oversize and get some larger pistons and maybe do some light port work and a nice valve job.

I wonder how much hp I would lose if any if I kept the smaller DL throttle bodies just to make mating up to the DL's air box and the computer easier???
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
BTW,,,,, this happened a couple years ago while on a big trip. I was in Newfoundland at the time and I caught it immediately. It also wasn't near as bad of a leak as it is this time. As a last ditch/last grasp hope, I put a couple bottles of engine stop leak snake oil in it and believe it or not, it swelled the seal and it stopped leaking,,,,, completely! Once home I got a local shop to replace the countershaft seal assuming that was it. Maybe it wasn't the issue at all?:confused:

In any even, I think I've decided to fix it no matter what. Hopefully it will be a seal and the amount of time without oil wasn't enough to cause significant engine wear. I sure hope Murphy has bored with me.:green_lol:
 

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.... What I believe happened is that the chain got adjusted too tight by the last one who installed a new tire, which was just a week or so before the leak appeared. Riding two up for a prolonged period kept a severe tension on a worn seal that just quit.
I have to take up for whoever put your tire on. The seal does not support the countershaft in any way. The tiny lip on the rubber seal wouldn't support the shaft even if the chain were removed. Immediately behind the seal is a large bearing that the shaft sets in. The seal's only job is to contain oil.

Seals fail prematurely for different reasons but the most common one is that something gets forced under the lip. Off road bikes and ATVs often get grass, bailing twine, walmart bags, etc. pulled under the lip of the seal. You see the same thing on outboard propeller shaft seals. Fork seals are the same way. They can finally wear out but dead bugs, nicks from rocks, and dried mud get forced under the lip allowing it to leak or actually nicking it as it goes through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I stil haven't looked and I paid no attention when I replaced the sprocket but is there some other seal behind the countershaft sprocket cover that might gush big time other than the countershaft seal? I mean dang,,,, it was replaced less than two years ago and has less than 10K miles on it and it was replaced by a good mechanic.:confused:

Remember, this leak is a doosy. Like I said, it's like it has pressure behind it as it literally poors out. It'll suck if I got teh mechanic to replace the wrong seal based on an assumption {had to assume since the snake oil seal sweller did it's job and stopped the leak} and then the seal that was damaged in the first place was the one that let go again and ruined the engine.:thumbdown:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Have these incidents been reported to the NHTSA? Catastrophic, sudden oil leaks are no laughing matter.


I haven't and don't intend too really. I don't see this as an endemic safety issue that's Suzuki's responsibility. This bike has around 70K miles on it and it's 12 years old. Additionally those were some really hard miles {at least the last 30 odd thousand or so} with plenty of dirt road mileage and quite a few water crossings {least a couple a month} so I see this as just a wear/age related failure same as if I has 12 year old tires with 70K miles on them on my truck and one let go. Yea, a sudden catastrophic tire failure is no laughing matter but what's the national hwy traffic asso. gonna do about it? Send memos out telling people that worn, aging seals can sometimes just let go???

Not trying to be a smart alleck, just honestly wondering what reporting something like this can really accomplish.
 

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is there some other seal behind the countershaft sprocket cover that might gush big time other than the countershaft seal?
See post #8 in this thread.
 

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I suggest you repeat the event. Add a quart or more, remove the sprocket cover and start the engine. You should see the real leak immediately.
From what you have said I would doubt you did much,if any damage and Murphy is a close cousin of mine!!
 

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If you did damage it would raise its head with your valve train first. Before you do any starting of your engine pull a valve cover and have a look. If the cam lobes are ok then your good. If the lobes look bad in anyway then most likely game over and you will need new heads. It only takes a moment without oil to do damage to the cam journal on the head.


Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app, while drinking a latte, eating a burger, driving through a school zone 20 mph over the speed limit with my feet on the wheel!
 
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