Odd behavior - Gear voltage levels are not stable - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Odd behavior - Gear voltage levels are not stable

My stromputer is essentially a mobile voltage meter - I set it up to show gear voltage levels, after noticing some issues with correct gear detection.
At first I thought it was a bug, but then double checked with another voltage meter. The stromputer is extremely accurate and is not the problem.
>> The motorcycle GPS (Gear Position Sensor/pink wire) seems to be outputting different voltage levels for the same gear, depending on the transmission (or perhaps ambient) temperature!
Once again, an external voltage meter (connected to the motorcycle) shows the same reading.
N for example, goes from to 4.95V (hot) to 4.6V (cold) . In fact the entire gear range shifts by about 0.35V between hot and cold.
Changing the voltage detection ranges to have wider values causes an overlap in gear detection, and is not really a good solution.

Has anybody noticed that?
I have an idea how to solve this, but wanted to first get some feedback.

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2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
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Last edited by BigMan73; 03-24-2012 at 07:46 AM.
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post #2 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 08:19 AM
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Big:

I haven't seen any variation in the voltage levels. Also, there are about 20 riders using my GPI design (https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...n-readout.html) and they haven't reported any instability.

My guess, base on almost nothing, is you are getting a voltage drop through a connection in your rig; maybe a cold solder joint? I agree with you that the sampler on your rig is plenty accurate for the GPI signal.

See http://whiskeytangohotel.com/gpi
to build your own V-Strom GPI and save, save, save!
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post #3 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Well, I only noticed that once I turned the 'Show Gear Voltage' display option on.

Trying to think what can be the cause of that.

I am hooking to the pink wire using a Posi-Tap, but I highly doubt that as a cause. The temperature behavior is very persistent.

The only things connected to the battery are the Arduino, Stebel air horn, GPS charger and the Coocase Topcase. I did modify the coocase two months ago to have 24 leds instead of 2 (on each side), but not sure how that is related.

Could you share with me your voltage levels? I'd like to compare with mine.

Also, I never got the initial readings that were published in ADV (i.e. 1st Gear = 1.78V). Mine was always much lower.

2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
-----------------------------------------------------
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Stromtrooper Wiki - http://stromtrooper.wikispaces.com/
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post #4 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 09:06 AM
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Zero experience with the GPS/I wire or its voltages. Just some wild-ass guesses.

Could this be related to the overall +12V voltage from the R/R? I installed one of those single LED, heads-up voltage monitors last winter and noticed that I am 'in the green' (12.9-15.24V) when the bike first fires up. (I assume there is some sort of electronic choke at play here.) Once warm I usually fall into the steady red (12.1-12.5V) range at idle. Even at stop lights I see red. As soon as I blip the throttle the monitor kicks right back to green.

0.35V is well within the delta my monitor is showing me between idle and not.

You monitor voltage on your setup too, right? What's that showing?

[CENTER][SIZE="1"]2011 V-Strom DL650 ABS - Black[/SIZE][/CENTER]
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post #5 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
Zero experience with the GPS/I wire or its voltages. Just some wild-ass guesses.

Could this be related to the overall +12V voltage from the R/R? I installed one of those single LED, heads-up voltage monitors last winter and noticed that I am 'in the green' (12.9-15.24V) when the bike first fires up. (I assume there is some sort of electronic choke at play here.) Once warm I usually fall into the steady red (12.1-12.5V) range at idle. Even at stop lights I see red. As soon as I blip the throttle the monitor kicks right back to green.

0.35V is well within the delta my monitor is showing me between idle and not.

You monitor voltage on your setup too, right? What's that showing?
Yes, I do have a battery voltage monitor. never thought of connecting both..
And yes, the voltage does change significantly between 11.8V to 13.9V.
I just didn't record the levels, since I was focused on the gear levels.
Will look out today - every ride is now a scientific experiment..with logs

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2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
-----------------------------------------------------
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post #6 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Just checked:
Bike cold (not started), connected to Battery Tender all night:
11.8V battery, 1st gear 1.33V

I started it (30 seconds):
13.9V, 1st gear 1.24V


2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
-----------------------------------------------------
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Stromtrooper Wiki - http://stromtrooper.wikispaces.com/
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post #7 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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My ride today experimented with an auto adjust (basic self learning) mechanism to compensate for the voltage changes.
It worked very nicely.

Still want to understand the source of problems.

2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
-----------------------------------------------------
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post #8 of 42 Old 03-24-2012, 11:38 PM
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@Big:

While out riding today I was thinking about your problem. BTW, I agree with you; the positaps are probably not the issue. Maybe, but I don't think so.

I am pretty sure the sample for your ADC is referenced from the output of the 5VDC regulator that supply Vcc to your microcomputer. Here is my guess.... you are not getting a stable 5VDC into your rig. Maybe the regulator is heating up and dropping a few 100mV.

Is there a way for you to connect a voltmeter to the 5VDC supply voltage on your rig? I think you may see a correlation.

Here are my values. I used a range to help prevent erratic reading. So far none have been observed or reported by others that built my design.

Gear Volts
1 less than 1.690
2 1.690 to 2.200
3 2.200 to 2.930
4 2.930 to 3.690
5 3.690 to 4.325
6 4.325 to 4.755
N 4.830 or greater

Keep us posted.

See http://whiskeytangohotel.com/gpi
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post #9 of 42 Old 03-25-2012, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltar View Post
@Big:

While out riding today I was thinking about your problem. BTW, I agree with you; the positaps are probably not the issue. Maybe, but I don't think so.

I am pretty sure the sample for your ADC is referenced from the output of the 5VDC regulator that supply Vcc to your microcomputer. Here is my guess.... you are not getting a stable 5VDC into your rig. Maybe the regulator is heating up and dropping a few 100mV.

Is there a way for you to connect a voltmeter to the 5VDC supply voltage on your rig? I think you may see a correlation.

Here are my values. I used a range to help prevent erratic reading. So far none have been observed or reported by others that built my design.

Keep us posted.
Thanks - your explanation makes a lot of sense. ADC is indeed a function of VCC.. great direction.

I feed the Arduino with (what is supposed to be) a stable 9V - the battery 12-14V voltage is converted and regulated to 9V using LM2940.
I can connect a volt meter to the 9V output and check it - very good idea.

But then the Arduino itself has an internal 7805 5V regulator.
It could be that the 7805 is causing the issues.

Did some searching on this subject:
1. I read that there is a way to feed a stable external 5V and therefore bypass the 7805. But that will require a lot of hardware changes.
2. Another solution is to measure the Arduino's own VCC voltage from within Arduino! That is quite cool, and I will test it tomorrow.
SecretVoltmeter - tinkerit - Accessing the secret voltmeter on the Arduino 168 or 328 - Open source releases from TinkerLondon and Tinker.it - Google Project Hosting

If I can indeed measure VCC, then the whole problem is solved, since I will multiply the ADC reading by VCC, not by a constant 5 (=5V) as I do today.

2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2011 DL-650A, Now owned by another stromtrooper
-----------------------------------------------------
Stromputer - https://www.stromtrooper.com/dl650-2004-2011/73806-stromputer-alive.html
Stromtrooper Wiki - http://stromtrooper.wikispaces.com/
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post #10 of 42 Old 03-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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Or... After looking at the code for the internal voltmeter you linked...

You could just reference the Stroms GPI voltage against the precision 1.1VDC reference the code reads. It seems like if the microcontroller is alive, that voltage will be 1.1VDC.

What I know about Arduinos is close to nothing so everything I just said may either be impossible of BS.

See http://whiskeytangohotel.com/gpi
to build your own V-Strom GPI and save, save, save!
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