Motorcycle-involved deaths have been on the rise for 22 years!! Anyone know why? - Page 10 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #91 of 100 Old 08-27-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by V-Strom Ry 2 View Post
Why do we wait until someone is dead (if even then) to make drivers (and riders, sure) responsible for their actions?

It's a mystery why, but the attitude around here is a strong "it's always the rider's fault".

In 2011, I was removed from my KL650 by a left-turner doing a triple-quad fakeout now-I-see-you-now-I-don't left turn maneuver. I'm about 99.9999% sure she was poking at a phone instead of driving.

After a short, graceless flight, I collected a broken femur, ankle, and wrist.

She didn't have a driver's license.

She didn't get a ticket.

On what planet do you damn near kill someone through your unlicensed idiotic phone-pokery then walk away scot-free? This planet right here, I guess, as long as it's a motorcycle.

If I were stopped for speeding with no license, I would get a pretty hefty ticket and would almost certainly be walking home and wondering how much it would cost to spring my bike from the impound yard.

But because she hit a motorcyclist, it's my fault or something. No ticket, no explanation why.

My only satisfaction is that she damaged her Mom's car to the point it could not be driven or repaired. Also hit the left side of my bike hard enough to break my ankle and leg and move the engine six inches to the right...

Oh, and her Mom had the state minimum liability insurance, which is a complete joke.

But yeah, no ticket, no arrest, no consequences whatsoever.
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post #92 of 100 Old 08-27-2019, 05:48 PM
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Yep. Me doing 100 mph on a deserted back road? If I get caught I can likely count on getting treated like public enemy number one - instant license suspension, bike impounded, possible criminal charges.

But pull a stupid and just about kill someone? Wrist slap, most of the time.

Edit: to clarify, when I say "pull a stupid" I don't mean making a mistake - those happen - but driving with a complete lack of due attention, not following basic rules of the road, that sort of thing.

For an example, back in '99 or '00 I was a passenger with a guy I commuted to work with every day, on our way home. At that time the ramp we took at the top of a big hill on the highway (divided, 3 lanes each way) we often back up out onto the highway. This happened almost every day. This Friday night we came up the hill in the right lane, and ended up at the end of the line of traffic trying to exit. Next thing I knew I was coming around with my co-worker telling me that we should get out of the car. I was a little dazed.

Turns out that a guy coming up the hill completely missed the stopped traffic (no visibility problems) and slammed into us at about 110 km/h. We were doing about 20. I suspect he was looking at his phone or something. He did get a careless driving ticket out of that, which is fairly serious as moving violations go. That is the minimum that was suitable in a case like that. I mean, really, how do you fail to notice that the entire lane of you has pretty much come to a stop? He would have been able to see this, up the hill in front of him, for at least a kilometer, I would estimate, before he reached us. I would argue that there's no way he could argue he was exercising the necessary care and attention to operating his vehicle, because if he was he would have noticed us. This wasn't like when you're moving along on a highway at speed, everyone following a little too closely as they tend to, and all of a sudden out of nowhere the traffic comes to a screeching halt. We had room to slow and nearly come to a stop, and he barreled into us at full speed from some distance behind.
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Last edited by V-Strom Ry 2; 08-28-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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post #93 of 100 Old 08-28-2019, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
... I remember articles back in the 70's saying that helmets didn't significantly improve your chances of surviving a motorcycle wreck. It was actually thought, or perhaps implied, that helmets would break your neck in a wreck due to the excessive weight.
I remember those articles. They came out of New Zealand. NZ was the only country, at the time, which had a full-blown national program to gather data from the emergency room network.

People were, in fact, getting broken necks. After a few years the data pointed out that it was the new "affordable" plastic helmets (as opposed to fiberglass). They would bounce!

The argument used to be that the plastic ones defended against penetration better than the fiberglass helmets. In '73 or '74 I sold a line of helmets from a company called Royal. They had a dual material shell. Fiberglass outer and ABS(ish) inside. They also had some undisclosed magic interior padding. They were heavy, but big flaw was the price. Never sold more than a few. I even stopped carrying the plastic brands and people just went down the street to buy them.

At the time Snell didn't have a bounce test and score. (I don't know if the do now) Carbon Fiber helmets were years away.

My objective in taking up this much space is only to point out that the air-vest is currently at the same place in acceptability, price point and technology.
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post #94 of 100 Old 08-28-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertBike View Post
Actually no, I wear the Hi-Viz version of the original Turtle. It has large reflective strips built in, on front and back.

I don't think the black version of the original Turtle had these reflective stripes. That's one reason I chose the Hi-Viz one. Also because, Hi-Viz.

I see that Helite now offers a Turtle II. Looks like it comes in more colors (bright orange), they added small reflective stripes to the back of the black version, and now there's an external pocket.

Helite has changed the MSRP of the "old" Turtle to $500, but vendors don't seem to have gotten the message yet.

I didn't pay quite that much, but it was still north of $600. Expensive, yes, but worth walking away from my dirt road mishap uninjured. I'm still riding with the same vest, though with a new CO2 cartridge and tether.
Apologies as it was Railrocker that mentioned the black vest... Canadian prices are substantially higher as the black Turtle 1 (FortNine does not yet show the Turtle 2) was $870 to me.
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post #95 of 100 Old 08-28-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NVDucati View Post

My objective in taking up this much space is only to point out that the air-vest is currently at the same place in acceptability, price point and technology.
Part of the reason I sort of "pushed" the idea of the airbag vests is that I think the time is now right to consider them. While helmet tech didn't seem to change much for a long time, I think in todays world something like the airbags are easier to improve and update. Seems like there are a few companies with them that have it pretty well figured out.

You can buy a new Helite for $464 at FC Moto. Comes from across the pond, but I found that Revzilla would match prices when I bought my Turtle II version and it was like $620. The $464 is well within the price that many can consider into a budget. That is what you pay for a good helmet, and the higher end helmets are in the $600+ range. So I think the price is where it needs to be, not out of bounds.

These won't keep you from being killed by a direct impact/sudden full stop. I think that the info saying nothing works above 25 mph might be misleading. Not all wrecks have you splatting into a brick wall. The glancing blows, hitting something sharp that might rupture organs, and general impact trauma of bouncing/rolling down the road would be highly mitigated by the airbag vests. Just like a helmet does, it absorbs the impact and spreads it out over the area and over time.
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post #96 of 100 Old 08-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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The neck-stabilizing feature of the Helite vest was a huge selling point for me. I didn't realize just how well it would work until my um, unplanned test.

When you're NOT crashing, the vest is a lot more comfortable and practical than any of those neck brace things (e.g. Leatt) look. Especially in hot weather.

I knew that Revzilla would match prices, but did not know they would even match overseas vendors. I'll keep that in mind, should I wish to invest in a Turtle II.

I'm generally wary of overseas vendors. While it is often claimed you can get "great deals" buying from Motostorm et al, I've never had it pan out. Either the shipping costs ate up the savings, or the manufacturer wouldn't honor the warranty if I bought from overseas (Givi), or both.

We should have more airbag vest options in the US. For some reason there are some Helite models they don't bother offering here.

One is their Airnest vest:

Main difference vs. the Turtle seems to be that the back plate is under rather than over the air bladders, and the plate in the Turtle is "better" than the one in the Airnest. Also the Airnest is cheaper.

The Airnest also comes in lots of colors, and there are colors of the original Turtle that Helite doesn't seem to offer in the US (such as gray).

I hate region-limited models. :/

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Last edited by DesertBike; 09-04-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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post #97 of 100 Old 09-04-2019, 06:29 AM
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Sadly the biggest problem I see while on the road are people on their phones. I ride motorcycles, drive a big Dodge Ram and school buses. Anytime my truck has had it's drawbar hit the other driver always says they didn't see the 7 foot wide, 7 foot tall pick up truck. Same with drivers who run the school bus stop signs and lights. Their response is always I didn't see the bus. If someone is so distracted as to miss seeing a 40 foot long, 8 foot wide, and almost 11 foot tall yellow box with 10 flashing lights on it how can a motorcycle stand a chance?

I ride like no one is looking for me.
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post #98 of 100 Old 09-05-2019, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
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I do like having a $50 Eken H9R Action Camera recording while riding whenever possible; I like having it mounted on top of my helmet so it's highly visible to drivers.

Last edited by talonstrom72; 09-05-2019 at 03:20 AM.
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post #99 of 100 Old 09-05-2019, 04:32 PM
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To be fair, way too many people were driving like pithed frogs long before cell phones.

Back in my misspent youth, I used to be a watermelon farmer. (Great incentive to finish college, let me tell you...)

Anyway, one of my duties as the only farm hand with a valid license and no DUIs or drug habit was to transport said watermelons from the fields to the various grocery stores and warehouses.

You would be astonished (or maybe you wouldn't) at the numbers of people who can look directly at an enormous bright red truck stuffed with 25,000+ pounds of watermelons, then calmly proceed as if they saw nothing but clear air. I'm talking distances where I can tell you the color of said brainless idiot's stupid cow eyes. No idea how I didn't squish anyone; farm trucks don't get the very best maintenance...

Again, this was long before cell phones. Any truck driver collects hundreds of such stories every year. Maybe every week.

Honestly, there's really something bad wrong with many human brains and eyes.

But yeah, cell phones have made a bad situation even worse.

When I'm King of the World, I will decree an absolute ban on phone pokery while operating any sort of motor vehicle, with consequences including mandatory immediate confiscation and destruction of said device. Return the remains to the offending poker with an additional ticket for littering so they can ponder what they've done.

I can dream, can't I?

I mean, if you wave a gun around in public your day and the rest of your life goes very badly and they don't let you out in public for a long while, even if you don't actually shoot anyone. Driving whilst phone-poking is just as dangerous if not more, yet it's perfectly OK most places. I don't get it.
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Last edited by bwringer; 09-05-2019 at 04:42 PM.
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post #100 of 100 Old 09-25-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by talonstrom72 View Post
What do you think could be the causes behind these numbers? I mean of course speeding not being careful, etc. but what underlying causes for the INCREASE in deaths while the number of people riding motorcycles continues to decrease??
I think two things (and sorry if these were already hashed out, but I didn't read all the responses):

1. Bikes are ridiculously overpowered these days.
2. Taller trucks and SUVs. The rider gets thrown against the vehicle instead of over it.

* I have no data to back these assertions.
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