Brother Refuses to Take MSF Course - Page 5 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
Riding Proficiency Tips and suggestions for improving the rider's safety skills and riding techniques

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post #41 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Coach23101 View Post
I liked the post above, and understand everything he is saying. But without knowledge and experience let's admit we face more risk on a moto that we do on a forklift or a quad.
For those who have no understanding of the machine or potential for catastrophe, jumping on and screaming off is very scary.
Part of being a family is protecting other loved ones from risk.
IMO you have to make the effort even if it is ignored.

On another note related to the post, you don't need a colonoscopy "experience" now.
New product called ColoGuard is within .2% as accurate and is simply a stool test you mail in to them. Learned about it from my daughter who is a Pfizer rep. Need a prescription though. And have to fight (normally) with your Doc to prescribe it because hospitals make a bloody fortune off of colonoscopies. So they push back. But it is available to anyone on request.
And even covered by MediCare.
Which says a lot about how effective it is and how crappy the corporate hospital folks are. Pun intended.

And if it is ignored, at what point do you stop nagging the other person and just respect their decision, no matter how wrong-headed you think it is? Would you keep nagging a daughter about her choice in boyfriends, out of loving concern, until she just gives you the middle finger and elopes? And when constant nagging creates a break in a relationship, should that person pat themself on the back because, "well, at least I tried?". I totally agree that you should tell someone if something they're doing is possibly harmful to them, but I just as strongly believe that you have to respect another adult's position of "I've made my decision".

Riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous; you're like 29 times more likely to die on your motorcycle in a crash that you would be driving a car. And that's for all of us; it doesn't exclude people who've taken the safety course. And I'm sure a lot of us have had a concerned family member/friend/nosy busybody who has told us more than once how dangerous it is, how we don't have a right to do it when we have a family, made jokes about donorcycles, etc. And you know what? Those people are right: it is very risky, and we shouldn't be doing it when we might be leaving a family behind. We've all heard the comments at one time or the other over the years, we all know it's a risky behavior, and yet here we all still are, twisting a throttle, because we want to ride bikes, and all the nagging in the world won't change that. It may, however, result in a few tense conversations with kindly Aunt Myrtle that involve the phrase, "Auntie, I love you, but you need to mind your own business".

My Gastroenterologist would strongly disagree with you that ColoGuard is an adequate substitution for a colonoscopy. I know, because I asked her about them before my colonoscopy. Yep, she could be biased, because it's true, they do rake in a ton of cash. And a pharmaceutical rep for a drug company making a drug that competes with colonoscopies could just as easily be biased towards their product, because they stand to make boatloads of cash too if people start buying their products. They're certainly not creating products out of a sense of altruism; they're trying to penetrate a lucrative market. You need look no further into the high pressure tactics of pharmaceutical companies than the current opioid epidemic. They flat out lied and minimized the potential for addiction of drugs like Oxycontin so Doctors would prescribe them willy-nilly for everything from cancer treatment to hangnails, with profit being their major driving force. Same with companies like Theranos. "Use our new amazing diagnostic equipment, one drop of blood and you can do 100 different tests! We're so much better than all those old fashioned tests that the labs are using, they're just trying to empty your wallet! Buy our product!". As it turns out, it was all a huge multi-billion dollar scam, and until it was uncovered, it made Elizabeth Holmes one of the richest women in the world.
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post #42 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 12:20 PM
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Well you already got 5 pages of feedback so I'll just ad a little bit...
I'm located in NC too. Wake County has excellent instructors at Wake Tech Community College. The MSF course is fun! What could be better than spending a weekend learning/refreshing and practicing the fundamentals even if you already know 'everything'? Plus it gets you out of taking the riders skills test at the DMV in many locales.

I guarantee he will have fun doing it and meet other like-minded people. No ego is involved at all in taking the course; I was the least experienced rider by far having never ridden a motorcycle. After the class and getting my license I started looking at bikes to keep practicing, and that is how I ended up with a Vstrom 650.

Good luck. Great to hear you taking an interest in this and keeping the conversation going with him.


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post #43 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 02:37 PM
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I never took any kind of MSF course, but yeah I've grown up riding all manner of 2/3/4 wheeled moto bikes. I don't want a course to be mandatory, but of course I believe it to be a really good idea, and something which a new rider would want to do.

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post #44 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 05:19 PM
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I did not take an MSF course when I started riding....and nearly killed myself a couple times. Took the course after a couple months and wished I'd done it sooner. Started riding again last year after a 20-year break, re-took the course before I bought a bike. I highly recommend anyone take it before they start riding, even if they "know how to ride", it will probably cover some things they haven't considered.
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post #45 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 06:55 PM
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Courses are overrated.

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post #46 of 48 Old 04-01-2019, 07:04 PM
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I never had any formal training, like many here. It was about 2 years before I thought I was getting good at riding, and that was commuting to work every day plus weekend rides etc. You need to have good road sense, and think about lane position, and blind spots, and guessing what other drivers are about to do.. do they know you are there? Are they about to change lanes, is that guy pulling over to the right to do a U-turn?

There are a million rules going on around you all the time, and you need to plan for escape from all of them to stay alive, and to do that, you need good skills. You won't have time to think about how to shift gears, hit the brakes and swerve unless your skills, and your command of all the controls, is well developed. You need muscle memory for most of it, feeling the clutch and throttle combinations, listening to the gears, knowing at what speed your tires will slip, what lean angle is safe, how to brake quickly on a curve.

A friend of mine from work took a course and passed. We went on a US tour shortly after and he dropped his bike 8 times. It was funny as hell, but really it was just a lack of balance and riding skills, that no course can teach you. You need the miles to improve. The courses do teach you a lot of practical stuff, and force you to learn slow speed skills, which are great, but not what you need when your on the highway so much. Still there is a lot to learn from it.

My 2c to get your brother to sign up.. tell him it's free, since your dad is paying, it will be fun, he will learn lots of cool stuff, and there might be some cute girls there he can assist.. <wink>
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post #47 of 48 Old 04-02-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Houstrom46* View Post
spot on with what others have said.

1) Take the course with him. Chalk it up as bro time, spending time together doing what you both like. FWIW, my brothers and I share no common interests, so the OP is fortunate.
2) +1 on the insurance discount.
3) Can't comment of other regions, but in Texas you now must take a MSF course in order to get a motorcycle endorsement. Look for a second ticket if you ever get pulled over for a traffic infraction.

On a side note, I got my motorcycle endorsement before the MSF was required, and was grandfathered in. I did try to sign up in January for a level 2 training course geared for experienced riders as a brush up on skills and to learn different techniques to riding, but the only courses currently offered were geared to folks getting the license for the first time, either as a newbie or as someone who's been riding without the endorsement. I called one an instructor running one of the classes to find out why the level 2 courses are not on the calendar and was told that the take rate is very low and not worth offering if only a few ppl show up, so they now only offer once or twice a year at the most. Said to check back later in the year
In Pennsylvania the basic MSF course is usually broken into two (2) 4 hour classroom session followed by two (2) 4 hour riding session's with the test for license being the second 1/2 of the second day.

I took that course in the early fall and the following spring I signed up for the MSF experienced course. It ended up being most of the riding from the basic MSF and no classroom. Still glad I took it as a refresher and like the MSF course it was free to residents.

State Farm doesn't give a discount for taking the MSF course but they were about $700 cheaper than Geico at the time.
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post #48 of 48 Old 04-05-2019, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Big B View Post
I never took any kind of MSF course, but yeah I've grown up riding all manner of 2/3/4 wheeled moto bikes. I don't want a course to be mandatory, but of course I believe it to be a really good idea, and something which a new rider would want to do.

I agree, beyond a doubt, with your comment. I started riding the mid 70's, and have ridden, through many states, traffic, snow (on multiple occasions), and personally don't feel the need to go spend a weekend listening to someone tell me to swing my left leg over the seat (I step on the left foot peg, & swing my right leg over), also don't drink alcohol or take any mind altering substances.
P.S. no smartphone or gps distraction when riding, watching every other vehicle, anticipating reacting/preparing to react. Many times it seems I'm the only one on the freeway paying attention. Always wear full face helmet, gloves, boots, armor jacket/over pants. I ride an average of 200 miles a day, 5-6 days a week.
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