accidental stoppie/endo at high speed: is it even possible? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
Junior Trooper
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bay Area, California
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accidental stoppie/endo at high speed: is it even possible?

Hope I am putting this in the right place. I see another slightly different thread:

I do *not* want to lift the rear wheel at all. But, I'm a new rider, and I'm a bit worried - is this even possible, on accident, if I jam on my front brake at freeway speeds?

On a road or dirt bicycle, it's pretty easy to do a "stoppie" or even (accidentally) an endo, where the bike flips over forwards. You might do a stoppie on purpose, but not an endo. In my world, "endo" means you are hitting the ground and your bike is coming down on top of you.

Definitely not something you want with a 500-pound motorcycle.

On a bicycle, if you're an experienced rider you learn 1) to get a feel for how much weight is on the front versus rear wheel, 2) to put your body weight and rear end waaaay back, so the bike seat is in your chest, if you want to brake extremely hard. With proper weight placement, you can make the front tire skid (whh is fine in a straight line & shouldn't make you crash). Of course, usually you don't want to do that. But in any case, you can go 60mph on a bicycle, hit the front brake as hard as you can (except without making it skid) so you are maxing out the static friction - and come to a stop that way, which stops you in the absolute shortest distance possible. I've done it many times. But, you have to know what you're doing.

BTW the other thing you learn on a bicycle is this: everyone who has ridden seriously, like racing etc, if you told them they could only have one brake, they would pick the front brake. Inexperienced people choose the back brake.

So anyway, I'm a bit terrified on my daily commute (speeds average around 85 miles per hour - uh, 137 kph) that I'm gonna have to jam HARD on the front brake, and I'm gonna do an endo and get crushed by my bike. Yes, I know I'm not supposed to jam on the brakes suddenly, and yes I know swerving is usually the better option, but in a split-second situation, intuition and fear take over, and swerving isn't always an option.

I do have ABS. Not clear what difference that makes, since I know from bicycle experience that it's perfectly possible to endo without locking up the front brake.

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post #2 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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It's possible. I've seen it done on a non ABS Wee. The info that comes with ABS models warns that ABS does not prevent a Stoppie.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s

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post #3 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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I endo'ed my 2008 DL650 last June, but unfortunately I was going 65mph at the time and ended up flying 150 feet in the air ahead of my bike before we both hit the ground and rolled for a while. I ended up with a broken left wrist and broken fifth metacarpal bone in my right hand. The bike was totaled. I wouldn't recommend repeating this "trick" to anyone though. Replaced the bike with a 2009 DL650 with only 6,000kms on the odometer two months after the accident. My wife thinks I am crazy.
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post #4 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 02:11 PM
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Location: Oakland, CA 94602
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train your brain

train your brain to not "grab a handful" in panic mode

whats the best way to train?

make the mistake once! (at a lower speed, not in traffic)

else practice hard braking on empty roads coming up to some marker (target)
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post #5 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 02:29 PM
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Your bicycle experience will serve you well in that you know that you need to make a point of practicing hard braking to get a feel for what the bike does and what its maximum limits are.
Doing an endo is certainly possible but not inevitable. In 43 years of riding I've never done one nor been anywhere close to it.
However, if it remains a concern I will help you seek out an early /6 bmw with the first generation of their disc brakes. I virtually guarantee that a stoppie won't be done with one of those. In fact its fairly hard to get it to stop at all. (the original abs and, unfortunately, anti-stop brakes).

Joe S.
'12 Concours
'11 DL650
'01 HD FXD
'09 HD XR1200
'79 BMW R100
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post #6 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 02:43 PM
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In the early '90s when I was more of an idiot than I am right now... I tried doing stoppies on my GXR750... It took practice but I managed to do them... Point I am trying to make is... I think a stoppie is more difficult to do accidently than you think... Just practice braking and getting the feel of what the front brake and wheel are doing during the stopping process...

2015 DL650AL5 in Blue
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post #7 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mrentropy View Post
I do *not* want to lift the rear wheel at all. But, I'm a new rider, and I'm a bit worried - is this even possible, on accident, if I jam on my front brake at freeway speeds?
It is possible but I suspect in most cases you are more likely to lock the front wheel. On a non-abs bike this generally results in the bike falling down (which is not a good thing either.)

Some might suggest buying an underperforming bike with poor brakes to eliminate the chance of this happening but having less braking ability is probably not the best way to increase your safety.

I think your best defence is learning ahead of time how you and your bike (and any vehicle you drive/ride) will react in extreme conditions and training yourself to react in the best possible way. As others have mentioned practice in a safe environment, ideally with professional training, is the best way.


2006 DL650: 202,000 km 125,500 miles, Sold
2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 193,000+ km, 120,000 miles.

This can help preventing from cars pulling out in front of you (SMIDSY)
SMIDSY detailed report.

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post #8 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 03:30 PM
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Stoppies aside, go to a big, empty parking lot and practice good braking and swerving maneuvers until they become second nature. Here:

Proper motorcycle training is like wearing a helmet. You can ride for 30 years without one and make a case that you've never needed it. Until you do but then it's too late to make that decision.

Last edited by OfirMX; 04-17-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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post #9 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 03:39 PM
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I'm a noob and the diving front end has scared me a few times but like the others have said before me practice, practice, practice. Get out on a back road with no traffice and practice hard stops.

What I haven't seen in this particular thread is "following distance" keep it long until you get better at braking and it's not a bad idea even after you get good at braking.

Another recent benefit of following distance I have noticed is that I have been able to start avoiding complete foot on the ground stops at traffic lights.

2012 DL1000 Red/Black Just getting started.
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post #10 of 49 Old 04-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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Yes. V-Stroms are capable of stoppiies.

I have done it on my Vee.

Freakin' scary...

1979 GL1000 Goldwing / 1992 Nighthawk 250 - Baby
2003 DL1000 - Priscilla / 1997 Concours - Ms. Piggy
2002 DL1000 - Fluffy the Torque Monster (Deceased)
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