Riddle me this! - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Riddle me this!

As there's so much discussion about riding skills I thought I'd throw this in the pot. If you've seen me post this before on other forums then don't spoil it for the rest....let them think about it!

It's important to know the source of the information. And it's from a guy called Tony Carter. If you don't know who he is...then read on.
He's a Brit, late 40's, ex-Police Motorcyclist, ex Police Motorcyclist Instructor, and ex Police Motorcyclist Instructor and Examiner to the Advanced Instructors.
He retired from the Police a few years ago and is now a motorcycle accident investigator for a major Law firm in the UK.
Tony is one of the 4 highest qualified motorcyclists in the UK and is in demand by Police Forces all over the world (including the US) to teach them. He's also an advisor to the UK Government on Biking issues, but as he's said, they very rarely listen.

Anyway, I think I've established the source of this info. You can dispute the answer as much as you like (and you will), but unless you're higher qualified and more experienced than him, then you're wasting your time and deluding yourself.
And take it from me....this guy can really ride.
There's a well known story of him turning up at a new model launch with a load of "riding god" journos from the mags. They had all the gear, all the attitude....then Tony turns up in reflective safety jacket, well worn kit, old, fat, and bald. And wipes the floor with the lot of them! Easily! :lol:
So...here we go! Here's the question...you give me what you think is the answer, and I'll give you Tony's reply later on!
And remember, this is a Roadcraft not a Racecraft question.

You are travelling along a section of road for the very first time in a national speed limit (60mph in the UK except motorways), when you are confronted by a bend or series of bends. Visibility is good, the road is good, the weather is fine and dry and traffic flow is minimal.

You decide to go through the bends at 30 MPH, but because the bends are so good, when you exit them you feel that it would be perfectly safe to go a little bit faster, so you turn around and do the same section of road again but this time you do it at 40 MPH.
It is still comfortable and you feel that 50 would not be an unreasonable speed so you do it again at 50 and again at 60.
On all occasions it was legal, it was safe and at no time did you cause danger to yourself or other road users. What was/is the correct speed for those bends?


So....what's your answer....and why? :lol:
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post #2 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 03:49 AM
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Im guessing the correct response is "What your confortable with". It depends alot on the rider and and the bike. Two factors left open in the description.
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post #3 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 05:43 AM
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Re: Riddle me this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete

You are travelling along a section of road for the very first time in a national speed limit (60mph in the UK except motorways), when you are confronted by a bend or series of bends. Visibility is good, the road is good, the weather is fine and dry and traffic flow is minimal.

You decide to go through the bends at 30 MPH, but because the bends are so good, when you exit them you feel that it would be perfectly safe to go a little bit faster, so you turn around and do the same section of road again but this time you do it at 40 MPH.
It is still comfortable and you feel that 50 would not be an unreasonable speed so you do it again at 50 and again at 60.
On all occasions it was legal, it was safe and at no time did you cause danger to yourself or other road users. What was/is the correct speed for those bends?


So....what's your answer....and why? :lol:
There's not enough information given to answer such a theoretical question. Too many factors- rider skill level, type of bike, etc. too consider.

Bill
DL650K6
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 05:50 AM
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Re: Riddle me this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
You are travelling along a section of road for the very first time in a national speed limit (60mph in the UK except motorways), when you are confronted by a bend or series of bends. Visibility is good, the road is good, the weather is fine and dry and traffic flow is minimal.

You decide to go through the bends at 30 MPH, but because the bends are so good, when you exit them you feel that it would be perfectly safe to go a little bit faster, so you turn around and do the same section of road again but this time you do it at 40 MPH.
It is still comfortable and you feel that 50 would not be an unreasonable speed so you do it again at 50 and again at 60.
On all occasions it was legal, it was safe and at no time did you cause danger to yourself or other road users. What was/is the correct speed for those bends?


So....what's your answer....and why? :lol:
This is a rhetorical question that cannot be accurately answered from the limited information given.

Bill
DL650K6
Pat Walsh skid plate, engine guards, oil filter guard; Givi E52 Maxia topcase with brake light, backrest and luggage rack; Amotostuff adjustable topcase mount; Givi E360 sidecases; Givi windscreen; Madstad AWM; Powermadd handguards; Fenda Extenda; Rick Mayer saddle; Suzuki centerstand, Moose Racing Quad Hi bars, Suzuki tank bra...
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post #5 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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You're looking too deeply....because even though the answer is a speed, it's actually not a speed question.
But for the sake of discussion let's assume the rider has 5 years experience and is on a DL650Strom. Not that it makes any difference because the rule applies to everybody irrespective of experience or bike.
Take a shot....doesn't matter if you get it wrong. When I first saw it, I got it totally wrong.
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 06:15 AM
 
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I would like to consider myself an experienced rider, given the years I've spent riding. I'm no professional mind you. Any time I encounter corners and twisties in the road ahead of me I instinctively slow down. It's automatic for me. There are too many critters crossing the roads up here in this neck of the woods. Deer, Moose, Bear, Coyotes, and so on. Nothing scares me more than cutting corners at top speed and confronting a Moose around the bend. Very interesting question, I look forward to the "answer". Ride safe. Pink.
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post #7 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 06:16 AM
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The correct speed is 30 MPH.

That is the speed that you first judged to be safe from your view of an unknown road. On subsequent rides through the bends you knew what to expect in terms of road surface camber etc. But think about what MIGHT have happened if on judging a safe speed to be 30 MPH, but you tried to take that road at 60 MPH, then part way through you came across an off camber hairpin.

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post #8 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantar
The correct speed is 30 MPH.
On the money!

This is Tony Carter's answer:

When you first approached the bend(s) an assessment of the correct speed was made on what you could see.
When the subsequent runs have been made at the higher speeds the assessment was made now using local knowledge, not what you could see.

The first time you went through the bend you could not see where the road went, you didn't know whether there were parked cars on the exit side, or whether there were potholes or gravel or whatever. So the speed selected was based on that lack of knowledge.
Once you have been through the bend you know how severe the bend is, you know the state of the road surface, you know whether there are parked vehicles or whatever so automaticaly you are using that knowledge to up your speed.
But every bend should be treated as if you are riding it for the first time regardless of how often you use that section of road.

So the correct answer to the original question is

30 MPH


Before you all start shouting that you can't ride round every bend at 30mph, that isn't what he's saying.
Even though the answer is a speed, it's not a speed question. The question is actually about observational skills.
What he's saying is ride according to what you can see now rather than what you saw previously.

Still dispute this wisdom?
Then ask yourself why most accidents occur within 10 miles or thereabouts of where the person lives?
It's because people are riding/driving according to prior recollection rather than current observation.
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post #9 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Still dispute this wisdom?
Then ask yourself why most accidents occur within 10 miles or thereabouts of where the person lives?
It's because people are riding/driving according to prior recollection rather than current observation.
No, it's because that's where you do most of your riding/driving.

'06 DL1000 new on 1/13/06
The difference between driving a car and climbing onto a motorcycle is the difference between watching TV and actually living your life.
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post #10 of 33 Old 08-04-2006, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
No, it's because that's where you do most of your riding/driving.
Precisely. I have a real problem with that statistic because it's always used out of context. 90% of all accidents happen within 10 miles of home not because it's more dangerous there but because that's where we do 90% of our driving.

Regardless ... Pete that's a very insightful topic, especially for a noob. Thanks for posting it.

Scott Craig - Nashville, TN
Red '06 Suzuki DL650 - Red '07 Honda VFR800 - My Bike Page
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