Countersteering - Does the Lean Angel of The Body Matter? - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
General V-Strom Discussion Talk about all things V-Strom not limited to just one of the above models

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
$tromtrooper
 
BHazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 553
Countersteering - Does the Lean Angel of The Body Matter?

I have been experimenting with this and it seems if remain upright and let the bike move underneath me, the countersteering is more dramatic.

I'm curious about other riders body position as the countersteer their bikes. Do you lean with the bike or stay on a mostly upright position and why?

Moe said, "Are you sure it's okay to fish there?" And Curly said, "Sure, there's a sign that says Fine for Fishing."
BHazz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 08:57 AM
kurt1305
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
If you stay upright, it requires more input to make the bike turn. The other end of the spectrum is racers who lean off to decrease lean angle of the bike.
post #3 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 09:20 AM
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evanston IL USA
Posts: 38,049
Garage
For the same turn radius at the same speed, The angle through the bike/rider center of mass and the tire contact patch will be the same for all positions. A higher rider will necessitate a lower bike and vice versa to provide the same center of mass. Racers lean in to provide more bike ground clearance. In an emergency avoidance maneuver, the rider will be better off staying fairly upright because the bike can be leaned farther faster than the rider can.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
greywolf is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 10:22 AM
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 324
All this counter steering stuff is a big scam to make money out of books/vids/courses etc.
Why? Because we always did it.....it's just that we didn't know we were doing it. Then somebody comes along, analyses everything to the nth degree, and repackages it as some sort of innovation.
All it's now achieved is adding complication to what we did naturally....because instead of just steering, we're thinking about steering.
And we need to be thinking about staying alive, not where our big toe is positioned. This switch of emphasis in recent years from roadcraft to racecraft is getting people killed, because they can't differentiate when and when not to apply the different skillsets.
My advice is don't over-analyse things, there's no need. If it feels natural....do it. If it doesn't feel natural....don't.
Pete is offline  
post #5 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 10:23 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 56
The rider shifting his weight on the bike will change the center of gravity on the bike, so shifting your weight on the bike can reduce or increase the necessary lean angle, depending on the direction of the rider's lean. Just look at the "Chicken strips" of a person who leans against his/her bike.
Jason is offline  
post #6 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 11:38 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16
The idea of consciously counter-steering may be a recent "in vogue" method of teaching steering but it works, for me at least. I've found that understanding the physics of the process allows me to make more accurate steering inputs and the bike goes where I want it.

I'm anal-retentive, and I'm much more comfortable understanding than just allowing my body to make it work without understanding. But, doing what feels right certainly works for a lot of people. If you're happy, safe and comfortable what's the difference? If you're not, then understanding the physics may help.

On my cruiser I was regularly touching pegs until I started to lean the body into the turn a bit. I got a lot more confident in turns and my riding was much smoother. I'm not a knee dragger by any means, but I feel more confident combining body and bike leans to suit the situation.
Chanticleer is offline  
post #7 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
$tromtrooper
 
BHazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
All this counter steering stuff is a big scam to make money out of books/vids/courses etc...
First, I am far from an expert but Im not sure I can agree here. I don't see how understanding the laws of physics/science behind something is not a good thing. I believe that I will continue to learn more as long as I ride.

My current method has been to initiate the turn by countersteering and both the bike and I lean. When I remain more upright and depend, mainly, on countersteering alone, it seems that I can get the bike to respond quicker to my movements. E.g; If I need to adjust my turn radious on a curve the bike responds quicker. If this is true, it could save my life someday.

We seem to have some conflicting opinions here can anyone site a few sources.

Moe said, "Are you sure it's okay to fish there?" And Curly said, "Sure, there's a sign that says Fine for Fishing."
BHazz is offline  
post #8 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 11:52 AM
FORUM GODFATHER.....R.I.P. PAT
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evanston IL USA
Posts: 38,049
Garage
Emergency avoidance is taught as countersteering because it's beyond out usual riding activites. We indeed do it without thinking about it in our normal riding but accident avoidance is outside that envelope. Practicing countersteer avoidance and emergency braking moves the activity from a brain activated to a reflex activated activity. People who have had near misses often talk about how they avoided an accident before they knew it. That takes the practice required to go from a thinking process to a reflex process.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
greywolf is offline  
post #9 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 12:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16
I agree with greywolf.

I don't think Pete was implying that counter-steering did not work. I think he meant that thinking about it too much might be distracting.

Ideally, you do want your steering inputs to be automatic. Having to think about counter-steering when in a situation requiring an immediate swerve would be a bad thing. But, if you don't have the right reactions things will be just as bad.

For me, understanding the physics helps me practice using the techniques, and thus they become automatic. Both in regualr riding and (hopefully) in accidence avoidance.
Chanticleer is offline  
post #10 of 29 Old 07-31-2006, 12:12 PM
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 324
I'm all for learning and understanding things that help the rider stay safe.
However, a lot of what is written today is based on applying principles that are more relevant to a track rather than a road environment.
People should be concentrating on reading the road ahead and staying safe....not wondering whether they should slide their ass cheek off the seat, and hanging off like a baboon.
It's the difference between Sport and the Real World.....and many people, particularly novices, can't differentiate!
Pete is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome