Oil Rating/classifications question - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Oil Rating/classifications question

No..this is not just another oil thread

:rolleyes:


I understand how higher oil ratings superceed lower ones.

The manual calls for SH/SJ and JASO MA
and 10w-30/40 or 15w-40/50 or 20w-50.

I personally prefer 15w-50.

Now, with that in mind a few questions for you oil guys:

1. I found Mobil1 15w-50 at Wal Mart rated SM (no JASO of course)
2. I found Mobil1 Racing 4T 10w-40 rated SJ/JASO MA


Since Racing 4T oil is very hard to find here and pricey ($10/qt) I had started using M1 15w-50 in my other bike and have had no issues I know of (yet).

What really concerns me here is that M1 Racing 4T has not passed above rating SJ even though the industry is out with SM. I also seem to recall reading about something with class SL and higher having some anti-friction qualities that could be less than desireable for motorcycles.

Anyone have anything to chime in here with?
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post #2 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 10:22 AM
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Energy conserving oils will be so marked and have a second number no larger than 20 or 30. Those are the ones to avoid due to clutch and gear lube requirements. Stick to the weight ranges in the manual and minimum service rating and you'll be fine.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
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post #3 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 10:50 AM
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Here is a site I have posted in the past it is more then you would ever want to know about oil. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com On a side note I will also be using Mobil 1 15W-50 oil in both of our V-Stroms.

Keep the Rubber Side Down.
Jim
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post #4 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 12:07 PM
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With exception, that is exception, of Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w/40, avoid all 5w oils, and ALL oils that say the term "energy conserving" in the API donut ring on the bottle label (here in the USA). You don't want to use these on wet-clutch bikes (clutch in same oil bath as the motor oil), "energy conserving" oils have additives that may cause clutch performance problems- i.e. the clutch can't clutch. The energy conserving oils, as a group (there might be exceptions), top out pretty much at or before the 10w/30 weight, 10w/40 and higher you should be fine. As explained here in this series of articles, whenever S-rated oils (light automotive oils) get bumped another letter grade deeper into the alphabet, it is API working with the American auto industry to make lighter weight oils that flow faster inside an engine, using less engine power to pump oil. It isn't necessarily making a better lubricant, it's helping the bloated US car market meet their fed. gov. mandated CAFE standards (corporate average fuel efficiency).
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#Oil
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/API.html (Note, this chart needs to be upgraded to represent the newest C-rated oil of CJ-4 rating, for low sulfur emissions with the newest grade of diesel engine and fuel technology.)
Scan down the left side index table of this site to "lubricants" to view info on oil filters, too.
Full website with 20 tons of dedicated motorcycle information, including a healthy dose of VStrom info:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/

Here is the latest API Engine Oil Guide showing the CJ-4 oils, 3 pages in PDF format (updated version of what is in the link above: http://www.api.org/certifications/en...lGuide2006.pdf

C-rated oils are commercial grade oils, typically meant for industrial and diesel applications, and generally have what is now the best parts lubricating additive package of any oil type commonly available at the retail level. C-rated oils are meant first for superior parts lubrication in very high stress environments, and engine efficiency second. This is the opposite of today's S-rated automotive oils, which are designed for engine efficiency first and parts lubrication second. Which do you want, an engine that lasts longer with less internal wear, or an engine that eeks out another couple mpg? Is the fuel savings over the life of the engine greater than the cost to replace parts that could have lived longer with better lubricants?

Motorcycle specific oil was likely at its best additive package and viscosity blend at the SG rating, since then the really good additives that provide superior lubrication have been lessened and lessened, because of pollutant concerns and CAFE standards. There still are a couple SG rated motorcycle oils out there, but they are expensive and can be hard to find (won't be at Auto Zone, etc.)

CI-4 oils (such as Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w/40) are meant for high speed engine applications, as shown in chart of the 3rd website above. The nice thing about the Rotella (both synthetic 5w/40 and non-syn 15w/40) is that they are available at everyone's favorite Walmart store in gallon jugs for $10-20. SWEET! I've used both of these oils in my VStrom, no complaints yet. Little to no burn off between oil changes and the engine hums along as happy as a clam in the mud. Rotella T 5w/40 Syn. is rated CI-4 Plus, Rotella T 15w/40 non-syn. is rated the newest CJ-4

Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w/40:
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellasynth.html
Shell Rotella T 15w40-
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ntro_1006.html

In the simplest terms, follow the chart in the owner's manual, along with the text that says use whatever brand/flavor oil you want as long as it's not Energy Conserving. After all, that's what the engineers engineered it for. (It could be 10w/40 pig snot as long as it's not energy conserving.)

Any other questions? Yes, you in the back... Thanks for taking my question- my question is this, why doesn't anyone put even 1/10 of one percent of the thought into automobile oils like they do with motorcycle oils? Thanks.

Steve.
Twin Cities, MN, USA
'18 DL650XT, previously '07 DL650 and others
"With the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit happiness comes responsibility, to yourself and others. With responsibility comes accountability. Without responsibility, without accountability, we cannot and will not be a free and civilized society."
-Me, Steve T.

Last edited by stevet; 03-23-2008 at 12:10 PM.
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post #5 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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It seems Rotella does not come in anything other than 5w-40 for synthetic?

too bad-

PS - thanks for the long post. Good info to read on....
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post #6 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanadarko View Post
It seems Rotella does not come in anything other than 5w-40 for synthetic?

too bad-

PS - thanks for the long post. Good info to read on....
You're welcome.

Yeah, too bad if you want to avoid the 5 side of the oil rating in your bike, but the key is that it's not energy conserving, and this is what your engine really wants to avoid. Go with their Rotella 15/40, very good stuff as well. I've used both.

Steve.
Twin Cities, MN, USA
'18 DL650XT, previously '07 DL650 and others
"With the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit happiness comes responsibility, to yourself and others. With responsibility comes accountability. Without responsibility, without accountability, we cannot and will not be a free and civilized society."
-Me, Steve T.
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post #7 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanadarko View Post
It seems Rotella does not come in anything other than 5w-40 for synthetic?

too bad-

PS - thanks for the long post. Good info to read on....
Too bad?

Most engine wear occurs during cold start up. The lower the low end rating on the oil the less engine wear. Thus Shell Rotella synthetic 5W-40 works for me. Can buy a gallon jug at almost any WallyWorld for $16, thus $4 per quart.

I'd use Mobil1 0-40 weight but it's hard to find and about $8 per quart.

If you don't believe what I'm saying do a google search. Probably find a thousand articles on the subject.

Cheers
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post #8 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 01:59 PM
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I must admit that I am completely baffled when it comes to oil. I read nothing but contradictions by the "experts".

In some articles I've read the oil experts tell of how the 10w-40 multigrade oils even out to about a 10 weight at operating temperature. They say that the oil thins out as it gets warmer or hotter.

On the Castrol website, they say this: It is the motor oil viscosity modifier additive that produces a thickening effect at high temperatures but is dormant at low temperatures.

So the Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 is what weight when cold??????? Is it a 5 weight?? What weight at operating temperature????? Then it's a 40 weight???

I have argued both sides of this and have come to the conclusion that I have no idea of what I'm talking about. Don't listen to me if you know what's good for you.:rolleyes:


EDIT: I wanna add this: http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Read that last paragraph. Does that mean that the M/C specific oils don't lubricate as well as the high end oils?

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Confuseus

Last edited by jackpiner57; 03-23-2008 at 02:22 PM.
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post #9 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 01:59 PM
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The shear resistance is so good, I wouldn't worry about it. 5W-40 is 5 weight when cold and 40 weight when hot according to theory. Practice varies a bit but you get the idea. One nice thing about synthetics is they hold that range better. That second number is effectively reduced with time in service, especially when the same oil lubricates the gearbox. Dino oil molecules are easier to shear and drop the second number quicker.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
See https://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at https://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html

Last edited by greywolf; 03-23-2008 at 02:03 PM.
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post #10 of 22 Old 03-23-2008, 02:27 PM
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Tom:

Read this series of articles. Take them one at a time. Don't go to the next session, until you understand the section you're on. This is the best explanation of oil I've ever read. Read Section 101 at least 4 times. LOL

http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/index.html

Cheers





Quote:
Originally Posted by jackpiner57 View Post
I must admit that I am completely baffled when it comes to oil. I read nothing but contradictions by the "experts".

In some articles I've read the oil experts tell of how the 10w-40 multigrade oils even out to about a 10 weight at operating temperature. They say that the oil thins out as it gets warmer or hotter.

On the Castrol website, they say this: It is the motor oil viscosity modifier additive that produces a thickening effect at high temperatures but is dormant at low temperatures.

So the Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40 is what weight when cold??????? Is it a 5 weight?? What weight at operating temperature????? Then it's a 40 weight???

I have argued both sides of this and have come to the conclusion that I have no idea of what I'm talking about. Don't listen to me if you know what's good for you.:rolleyes:


EDIT: I wanna add this: http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Read that last paragraph. Does that mean that the M/C specific oils don't lubricate as well as the high end oils?
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