Clencher!! - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
General V-Strom Discussion Talk about all things V-Strom not limited to just one of the above models

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post #1 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Exclamation Clencher!!

Had a proper buttock clenching moment the other day.

Just left home, pouring rain and cold tires. Long straight, about 50 mph, 100 yards between me and pick-up in front (ie plenty of stopping distance).

Cue truck stopping without indication to turn into driveway. I apply brakes as usual, and only gently. Both wheels lock, so I release both brakes. Unfortunately, I was now going sideways, so the rear snapped round fishtailing back to the left.

At this point, I try the rear brake again, and it instantly locks up. Try the front, that locks too. Release both brakes, back end still out to left. Going far too quick, and have hardly slowed. Re-aply rear, locks again.

So by now, I'm thinking "What's the least painful way to hit that truck?". I was absolutely convinced I was going to rear end it. Anyway, I manage to direct the bike up the right hand side of the truck. Now he indicates and starts turning right. Somehow, despite him turning in to me, I manage to miss him by inches (my arm brushed his wing mirror).

So, once my heart rate had slowed to below 160 bpm, I go back on myself and discover a diesel spill that has spread across 3/4 the width of the road, and runs for about 60 yards. Fortunately it was raining that hard it wasn't going to last long.

Suffice to say, I wasn't impressed, and it left me without any confidence in my tire grip for the rest of the journey! Still, all's well that ends well!
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post #2 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 07:58 PM
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Seems to me you did everything you could possibly do, TG. You had no control over that diesel spill, and you didn't know it was there until after the fact. I believe if the diesel had not been there, and you'd been dealing with just rain, your tires would have gripped much more than you might have expected.

Everything you could control, you did. I think you did just fine, all things considered. Hang in there, and keep on Strommin'!

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT (Annabelle)
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2013 Yamaha FJR 1300 (Rachel)
2008 Suzuki Bandit 1250S (Fiona)
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 07:59 PM
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Everybody who says the don't like ABS brakes should read this.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014-2016 DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012-2016 DL650s
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post #4 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure how much use ABS would have been, TBH. There was just no grip whatsoever! Even with no braking at all and the clutch pulled in the rear kept sliding.

I don't know how the racers do it, I for one was terrified. Although the funny thing is, I wasn't afraid until afterwards - I just wish my brain could process that quickly the rest of the time!!! :rolleyes:

And thanks, Whistler, it certainly hasn't put my off my might Vee - I still love it!
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post #5 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 09:18 PM
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TG,
Really glad that you came through that mess with the rubber side down. I am relatively new to motorcycling and I read stories like yours in order to help build my skills as a rider. I guess I'm sorta building my riding skills at your expense.

During my MSF course part of the training involves what to do when the rear wheel locks during emergency stopping. I was taught that once the rear wheel locks it is verrrrry important to not release the rear brake as nasty things can happen. Since you came through your situation OK after locking and releasing your rear brake is it really that important to hold the brake once the rear locks or when is it safe to release the brake?

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. ― George Carlin

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post #6 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 09:38 PM
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Well done Tailgunner! Many people would have tanked it. You kept on working and prevented a much more serious incident.
post #7 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 10:23 PM
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I've had a very similar experience although I couldn't point to any diesel and the road was dry. What was similar was that I had to stop quickly and found no grip and both brakes locked up immediately. I tried to release the brakes both front and rear and re-apply but I kept getting lockups. It took three tries at braking until I was eventually able to stop along side the car in front.

I've read and heard all the advice on the rear brake, but when the back end swings arounds I can't see myself staying on the brake. I have never done it, I always release and try to find the threshold again. I think the problem occurs if you are too slow to release and you get at such an angle that you high-side when the wheel grabs. I think that as long as you release quickly you will be OK. Since I haven't ridden out a slide with the rear brake on I don't know what happens. I do know I don't like that back end getting ahead of the front. Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.

DL650K5 (Silver)
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post #8 of 15 Old 05-28-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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for the moment, let's forget about the impending collision with the truck, car, yak, whatever. let's speak solely about braking for the moment.

the rear wheel locking up isn't a big deal in a straight line. but in a turn or when the ass-end is coming significantly around- that's when it becomes a serious issue. should you release the brake you may-depending on speed, road surface, angle of lean, amount of stepping out of the rear end, etc- be able to ride it out.

but chances are once that rear wheel bites (and your letting the brake off is what allows this) the bike will try to dramatically upright and/or straighten itself. this motion alone may cause you to be pitched off the bike to the side opposite the lean. often the bike will try to stand up so suddenly and with such force that it will flip itself and you right over in the opposite direction.
we've all heard of high-sides and low-sides. if the side your leaning to hits the ground first, you've low sided. if the side OPPOSITE that which you were leaning, you've high sided. and usually because the rear wheel lost traction and then dramatically and suddenly gained traction by you letting go of a locked up rear brake. here's a nice video of a squid on track day. luckily he wasn't going very fast and was able to save it. :44 or so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=935dSmNIjMM

this can also happen if the rear wheel spins (for some reason) while the bike is leaned over and then it suddenly gains traction again. here is a video of a high-side caused by just that-- looks like he hits the dreaded painted white line which causes his rear end to lose traction, as soon as he clears the painted line his rear wheel grabs hard again and you see what happened. high-sides are nasty. :22 and 1:04 are the places to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI2U3djAZ6Q
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post #9 of 15 Old 05-29-2007, 07:55 AM
 
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TG,

Congrats on a great save!

I am still under the impression that as long as we have any control left on the bike, we can get away from hazards in our path. I hate to hear the "I had to lay it down" commentary as that usually indicates complete lack of skills or knowledge on how to control a motorcycle. I am still of the belief that if the motorcycle is on it's wheels and I'm on the motorcycle, I have a much better chance of avoiding something in my path than if the motorcycle were sliding down the road with me either on top of, alongside of or underneath the motorcycle.

On skidding the rear tire: The words that MSF puts out are, "If the traction is good, keep the rear tire skidding until you come to a stop. If the traction is not good, such as on a dirt road, you can release the rear brake to regain traction." I would say that in this particular case, the traction was not that good, but better than dirt. Regardless, he was in a very precarious situation.

I'm very glad that you kept thinking and looking for an escape route!

Good job and glad to hear you're all right, even though you had to stop and dispose of your skivvies on the way home!

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post #10 of 15 Old 05-29-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf View Post
Everybody who says the don't like ABS brakes should read this.
If there is no traction ABS doesn't work. I was going down a hill in Mammouth last year with my ABS Dodge truck, hit the brake, the damn things just kept locking and releaseing all the way across the intersection, lucky no one was comming.
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