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First time on gravel...

8K views 58 replies 42 participants last post by  ukturfrocks 
#1 ·
There's a small country road near me that I occassionally take my Wee down. Usually it's hard-packed dirt so no prob for my Continental Road Attack tires. Well the other night I went that way and they had just spread gravel. It was easily the most uncomfortable experience I have had on my bike. Felt like I was riding on greasy marbles on top of ice. I had no control, arms locked in place as the bike drifted all over the place no matter how fast or slow I went.

Now...I'm hoping/assuming that this experience is because I have street tires? Somebody please tell me that with a set of knobbies I would've felt much better...
 
#2 ·
Now...I'm hoping/assuming that this experience is because I have street tires? Somebody please tell me that with a set of knobbies I would've felt much better...
Not really. Loose gravel has a whole set of problems on its own. Unless you're accustomed to that kind of riding with the Strom then it will be pretty disconcerting no matter what tires you have. Best thing to do is relax and let the bike move around some under you. I've come close to high siding a few bikes on gravel but it was due to very high speeds and "soft spots" or ridges in the gravel surface.
 
#3 ·
I've ridden dirt bikes for 40 years and my first time on loose gravel on the Wee felt pretty scary too... Knobbies are no better on loose gravel. Running really low pressure helps a little, but I don't think I would want to run the Wee tires at 10 psi :yikes:

The best gravel bike I've ridden by far was a Yamaha TW200 which has really wide soft tires. It moved around a lot but the traction was awesome.
 
#4 ·
I'm sure it was the "first-time willies". But man it just felt like I was going totally lose control at any second. The squirliness in the rear-end didn't bother me as much. But the front tire was all over the place.
 
#5 ·
Best thing to do is relax and let the bike move around some under you
Repeated for emphasis. Knees lightly against the tank, balls of the feet on the pegs, body, hands, arms relaxed. The bike WILL move around. You do not want it to throw your stiff body around which then throws the bike around more. Some like to stand on the pegs--an acquired skill. It does not lower the center of gravity, it raises the combined bike & rider CoG but decouples the bike from the rider so the bike moves around more easily.
 
#20 ·
standing helps, tyre choice helps more

Some like to stand on the pegs--an acquired skill.
Agree with this one. Standing on the pegs does de-couple you from the disconcerting feeling of tyres tracking sideways while you are traveling in a straight line. The sensation is a lot worse with combination of different tyres.

The original Dunlop Trailmax tyres seemed to be better at handling gravel but, as I spend most of my time on tarmac, I had a few different brands and types on test, sometimes due to the preferred tyre being unavailable.

On the rear:

Michelin Anakee 2 R 150/70V17 (life shortened by a nasty rear puncture that put 2 holes in the tyre with the one nail)

Bridgestone BattleAxe BT23R 150/70 better on the road and OK on dirt.

Pirelli Angel ST 150/70ZR17 best life yet out of a rear tyre at 13,840km but this had no usable tread left in the centre after a 2000km highway trip to Melbourne in +40 degrees Celsius weather. But not too good on gravel.

Now back to a Trailmax and happier.

On the front:

good - Dunlop Trailmax 110/80R19 - best so far.

fair - Pirelli SCRP Trail 110/80R19 still some uneasiness, especially in corners

bad - Pirelli Angel ST 150/70ZR17 very skittish

The front tyres are the ones to cause the skittishness, especially when a road tyre on front is paired with a road/trail tyre on the rear.

The tyres selected by the factory appear to be a good all round choice.

Running the softest pre-load on the rear suspension also helps the bike ease over the roughness of dirt/gravel roads.

Cornering on gravel with any type of tyre is an art. The more you ride gravel, the more confident/adventurous you will get. Stick to the camber of the road and the inside of the corner and you'll have more traction. Just don't hit anything coming the other way.
 
#8 ·
I had some fun on gravel last year. Was heading up to a campsite on deep gravel that was up a steep hill. Had to stay away from the edges as it sunk down there. I rode up a bit, then had to turn around and go back down (no campsite). That was fun (not). Managed it though.

Rear brake all the way down. It was like riding on marbles. I tried to go slow but the road had a bit of a right angle and it kept trying to coax me over into the deep gravel on the side. Then I got this guy on a pickup truck on my ass. There was no way I could pull over to let him pass, and speeding up was just a dumb idea, so I rode the rest of the way down with him a few feet behind me. Stressful. I nearly lost it at the bottom too, the front wheel started to go out but I managed to save it. Lost a few pounds that day.

A fully loaded bike on gravel is not a good option.
 
#46 · (Edited)
WTF! Where did that gravel come from?

A fully loaded bike on gravel is not a good option.
The only time I have crashed my Wee was on a county road in Mississippi in 2011. The map showed it was a hardtop road. It was dusk so I couldn't really make out that the surface ahead had changed. A local who happened upon the scene helped me get the bike back up - said the county grader had ripped up the hardtop only a couple of days before. Huge chunks of gravel and asphalt. :yikes:
When I entered the chunks I was only going about 40 mph but the back end was swishing back and forth. The front end was colliding with big chunks and shunting sideways. All I could do was stay calm and let the bike slow down to a stop. I never made it to a controlled stop - a big chunk threw my front wheel to the right and I was down on the left side before I could say "shit!" :furious: Thanked myself for having rigid panniers - probably saved my left leg from breaking.
At that time I had absolutely no off-road experience. Would standing on my pegs and applying more throttle have saved me?
 
#9 ·
I'm a supervisor for a construction company and take the bike to the job when I have a labor force that prefers to show up at the office early and take my truck rather than drive to the job. One day I came bombing down the dirt road after coffee only to find my operator had smoothed out the end of the road with the loader and it was all loose sand and gravel. I managed a safe stop and turn about a hundred feet after I passed the rest of the crew. It was an Oh-Sh#t moment!
 
#13 ·
I must say thank you for the tips. this isn't my thread and sorry for jacking it but. I found a gravel rd today near cave run lake in Kentucky and when I first got on it I was tense as ever. Scared to death of all the movements. Then after relaxing it got to be a lot of fun. Still sketchy for me but I got up to about 40 and was having an excellent time. So thank you gents.
 
#14 ·
Relax Relax Relax, this can't be said enough.

I love a steering damper on dirt bikes.

On the Wee I also like a fork brace to keep things tight.
 
#15 ·
I have laid my DL650 over in the gravel...... twice. Both at low speeds.

The first time, I was on a freshly graded road, and then went to turn off and hit the 6" pile of gravel at the graded edge at a less than optimal angle and was down before I knew what had happened. The second time was a result of a fist full of front brake going downhill.

After those two incidents, I am terrified of gravel and avoid it like the plague. I have zero two-wheeled offroad experience (except with mtn. bikes) so I am looking for a small used dirtbike to work on my offroad skills. They are much cheaper to lay over. :mrgreen:
 
#16 ·
Relaxed inputs are best. I don't think about STEERING the bike, as much as I think about SUGGESTING to it which line I want to take. Look as far down the road as you can see the line you want to take, suggesting the bike to take that line. If you get off of that line, no big deal, just keep searching ahead for the best line you can get on. I always keep the bike in a gear that it will accelerate easily in, because if things get really squirrelly, you must be able to accelerate in order to maintain best control.

I just got back from Gold Point, NV, where I did some off-roading on my 2012 650. Mostly gravel and dirt roads. 60-70 mph is where the bike felt best to me in deep gravel...in 4th gear....usually standing. 80 mph in 5th gear didn't improve the feel, so, I stayed in the 60-70 mph range. After a while, when I got reaquainted with the feel of gravel, I would sit for stretches, but, the overall control is best when standing. Gotta be on the lookout for rutted powdered areas, as I still don't know a good way to get through those on basically street bike tires...so, I go 25-30 mph through those sections.

I imagine a steering damper would help, but, I've never found a need to put one on any of the bikes I've had.
 
#17 ·
If a steering damper is set right you don't know it is there you just know at the end of your ride you have more energy and feel more relaxed.

You will notice how well they work when you need to get off the gas in the soft stuff, the extra weight on the front wheel is less noticable and it will track better you also don't deflect so far off tree roots and sharp edged rocks.

After a broken collar bone from a highside on my WR I found the damper cheap insurance, I got a call on the friday to say I got a new job, on the saturday I broke my collar bone, they held the job for me and it's the best job I've ever had, part of my first pay went on a scott steering damper, I decided after my first long ride it was worth every cent.
 
#18 ·
+1 on standing on the pegs, lowering the pressure in the tires a bit and just relaxing. Riding on gravel is a bit disconcerting at first, but eventually, you get used to the feeling...until the next time, anyway :biggrinjester:

The biggest thing for me, however, is just to decouple my upper body from lower body and bike, like when I'm kayaking whitewater. The bike is going to wiggle and move underneath me, so I just let it while keeping my weight centered over the bike as much as possible. When standing, that means legs and feet will be moving a lot while my torso and head are relatively still. If sitting, it means my hips will be moving with the bike while upper torso will remain still. Once I learned to stop reacting to every move the bike made, I was amazed at how the ride smoothed out.
 
#22 ·
Well, your bike has to be set up where the handgrips are in the correct relationship to you. If you can't comfortably stand STRAIGHT UP, and your hands naturally position themselves on the grips, you may never get comfortable standing.

I had someone explain the benefits of standing on this site, more clearly than I've ever thought of it before. Think of standing being similar to balancing a broomstick on end in your hand. It's MUCH easier than balancing a pencil on end in your hand. That de-coupling of the body's center of mass from the bike, and RAISING the CM, results a much easier time of keeping the whole she-bang upright.

Also remember, the gyroscopic effect of the wheels is helping keep the bike upright and straighter...that may be another reason going 60+ mph gives a much more steady feeling result than going at slower speeds.
 
#24 ·
Staying seated means you can put a foot down if you need to.
I've dropped a foot while standing. Granted, I was almost stopped at the time, and I don't think it would have worked nearly as well had I been moving at much more than 5mph, but if you're going slow, you can drop a bootrigger even when standing.
 
#25 ·
Riding an XR650L for a season taught me one thing...which is one of the best lessons I've ever been taught: NEVER depend upon putting a foot down to save you. You are better off staying on the pegs, keeping your balance, keeping the power on, and riding it out. Putting a foot down is giving up, and you'll never really learn to ride well by doing that. OK, if you are a MX or dirt track guy, that one foot out to the front and side is different. Otherwise, stay on those pegs!
 
#27 ·
I'm planning for 3 days on the TAT next month and will not be taking the Wee. I'm taking my XR650L instead. I'll miss my Wee for sure, but I think the XR is better suited for this ride. I imagine the Tennessee portion of the trail is mostly gravel? Anyone ridden the east TN portion? Anyway, I've been riding a lot of gravel lately and have no real problems except for turning. I really don't know what to do in a sharp curve except slow way down. Yeah, I've seen the guys who drift the bike around every curve...well, that ain't me. I would like to be able to take them faster, though. I hear "Keep your weight centered on the bike". Is that considered leaning with the bike like on pavement or keeping body straight up and leaning only the bike? There are tons of gravel roads around East Tn that need exploring, and I need to do it faster. :headbang:
 
#28 ·
Good advice...

The thing about gravel...Not all gravel is created equal...:yikes: You got the pea size gravel...and this is fine if it's not thick...but if it gets thick...it's like riding in sand...where a bit of speed is your friend...as it will lift the front of the bike...the last thing you want is to plow through it at slow speed...The quarter to half dollar size stuff is the easiest to ride in...as the bike doesn't plow into it as easily...The stuff I hate is the Big Stuff...Baseball to Softball stuff...want to talk about wandering...It's what made me decide the V-Strom is made for the highway and light gravel only...No more serious dirt/gravel tracks for me, while on the Beast...
 
#30 ·
Not a Vstrom owner yet, but this is a great thread with great tips for the loose stuff. I don't think I will be taking my VFR down any loose gravel roads on purpose, but when I get my Vstrom this info will come in handy for practice! Thanks guys.
 
#31 ·
I'd recommend learning on a smaller dirtbike (150's are nice) instead of the vstrom. Its alot more expensive to drop, and more likely to hurt you. Once you pickup some of the techniques it gets easier, but it defintley feel's squirelly and can bite you.

On a sidenote I appreciated the wee in gravel after one time when I had a fully loaded FJR step out sideways a few feet and roost it up good when I hit the throttle to hard in 1rst in deep gravel one time. I managed to keep on the gas and straighten it out, but I'd never do that on purpose.
 
#32 ·
Center of Gravity

Just curious (and a little confused) -- I have heard more than one person say that standing on the foot pegs, as opposed to sitting, does not shift the center of gravity downward. That seems counter-intuitive to me. If 160 pounds of my 180 pound weight is on the seat (I assume my legs might weigh 20 pounds), then that weight is pretty high. If I stand up on the pegs, all 180 pounds of weight is pressing down on the pegs. We know that shift makes the bike more stable while upright (I can certainly see that the center of gravity would not be moved if the bike were on its side.) Still, I think it is sort of the same as me sitting down in my kayak which makes it more stable as opposed to trying to ride on top which makes it very unstable. Is that not a shift in center of gravity? :confused:

I understand that sitting on a bike causes a ridged system, while standing creates a non-ridged system (my hips and legs can move under me). Any physics pros out there who can sort this out for me?
 
#36 ·
Just curious (and a little confused) -- I have heard more than one person say that standing on the foot pegs, as opposed to sitting, does not shift the center of gravity downward.
QUOTE]

I was schooled on this topic by some very patient people on this forum. One of the best things that helped me was to stop saying Center of Gravity. Instead, think of Center of MASS. If you stand, the combined Center of Mass of you plus the bike also rises. I know what you mean when you say you've changed the relationship of where your weight is distributed when you remove your rear from the seat and place all that weight on the pegs...and it seems intuitive that a CG would therefore be lower...but, think of the Center of MASS...it rises...doesn't matter where it is anchored.

Balancing an object with a higher CM is easier than balancing an object with a lower CM...as illustrated by balancing a broomstick compared to balancing a pencil. A broomstick with a weight on the top is even easier to balance on your hand, compared to a broomstick with a weight near your hand. That's what is going on when you stand. Well, plus the whole de-coupling idea.

Don't forget speed...the gyroscopic effect of the tires/wheels helps keep the bike more stable at speed. Speed also keeps you on top of the gravel better...which makes crossing ruts a bit easier.
 
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