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post #11 of 36 Old 01-19-2019, 08:22 PM
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Let's not forget the environmental devastation of rare earth metal production and which country controls the market.
As for Hydro...it has a carbon footprint that is large. They flooded 11,000 sq KM to make the James Bay project in sanctimonious Quebec. Didn't the Greenspace it replaced eat C02?

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post #12 of 36 Old 01-19-2019, 09:29 PM
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"They don't explode in a ball of fire in an accident;"

I must have imagined the news releases about Testlas going up in flame.
Seems in 7 billion miles 40 cars have gone up in smoke. May be a better rate than Ford Pintos. 2,2 million cars, 27 to 180 deaths.
So electric stuff do go up in flames, but so do cars
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...=psy-ab.3..0i2
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post #13 of 36 Old 01-19-2019, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Let's not forget the environmental devastation of rare earth metal production and which country controls the market.
As for Hydro...it has a carbon footprint that is large. They flooded 11,000 sq KM to make the James Bay project in sanctimonious Quebec. Didn't the Greenspace it replaced eat C02?
Oh stop with the nonsense....all technology has a cost and if you think flooding as bit of taiga to provide low cost low carbon electricity for millions of people I have nice warm cave in Mexico you can retire to and grow your own food.
( 185,403,168 acres of forested area in Quebec and you are worried about 11,000 !!!??? pardon my laughter ).

Rare earth mining is not a "disaster" - AGW is an unfolding disaster.
Rare earths are being replaced in devices as rapidly as technology can solve it.

Japan has discovered likely enough for an infinite supply.
Quote:
'Semi-infinite' trove of rare-earth metals found in Japanese waters ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/.../ra...-ocean-mobile-...
12 Apr 2018 - Scientists have found rare-earth metals required to produce high-tech products ... Seabed Authority, which regulates the sea floor within international waters, ...
We have the technology for a carbon neutral sustainable planet.

This is all the people on the planet stacked in a small corner of the grand canyon.


What we don't have is the honest politicians to undertake the project ... ( tho China at least is getting there as is Europe )
EVs at least address a major issue that in the end will save a commuter transport money and solar/wind is now the least expensive form of electricity production tho storage needs to catch up.

EV motorcycles are niche and likely remain so tho lower cost swappable battery packs will help as well as lots of charging stations. We carry extra fuel on long trips ...battery energy density needs to get into the same range and lithium batteries are light.

Hybrid I'm not sure of the gain...I get 70 mpg on a bike that can cruise all day at 70-80 mp.

RIders in Manhattan can't even buy fuel....but there is lots of electricity


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post #14 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 10:02 AM
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I read recently of someone riding across the country on an electric motorcycle, charging at RV parks along the way. Checking the stated range for highway travel on the 'Zero' motorcycle site I see they give it as 112 miles. Lets say 100 miles as a real number. That means I can travel 50 highway miles before I need to turn around. Probably make a good city vehicle but wouldn't work for me.

As for Lithium mining it does sound nasty.
Lithium Mining and Environmental Impact - Lithium Mining - The Worldwide Website

"Everything comes at the cost, so while the environmental impact might not be worse than mountaintop mining, it’s going to be important to pay attention to the environmental impact, because there will be one."

I was poking around a favorite area in the desert not long ago, an old ghost/mining town that has been designated a wild Burro sanctuary (https://www.blm.gov/visit/marietta-wild-burro-range) and I ran into a geologist and her crew from Canada. They were prospecting for Lithium and they had competition.

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post #15 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 10:44 AM
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One difference is that lithium is not a consumable - once refined it stays in use. Lithium mining compared to oil sands...not even close to the kind of issues and environmental degradation and oil unfortunately IS a consumable.....worst of all is coal.....a consumable and very damaging to human health.

Lithium exposure like exposure in uranium mining has some health risk to the workers and needs to be dealt with .....it's doubtful China will be too careful with workers.

Still as the article covers - all technology carries risk and lithium may not be the final word on batteries.

Quote:
Researchers from the University of Birmingham may have found a way to replace the lithium in lithium-ion batteries with a cheaper sodium option. Lithium-ion batteries are commonly used in electronics like laptops, smartphones and hybrid and electric vehicles because they are rechargeable.
https://www.rdmag.com/article/2018/0...hium-batteries

any objections to mining salt


Ontario Canada rider staying in Cairns Australian Feb to May & Aug-Oct each year
Canada 2018 CB500x >2009 CBF1000 sold • 10 Wee ABS sold • 09 Burgman Exec sold • 10 NT700v sold
Australia> 04 KLR650 • 93 ST1100 sold •
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Last edited by Macdoc; 01-20-2019 at 10:48 AM.
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post #16 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 03:06 PM
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Oil can be recycled and much of that is done, so for a consumable it's a pretty good one. Coal gets a bad rep, in particular from other countries who aren't nearly as dependent or knowledgeable about such. Natural gas is now the main fuel of choice here in the states for the power plants, and of course their are many detractors concerning the "fracking" methods used for such.

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post #17 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 03:16 PM
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"This is all the people on the planet stacked in a small corner of the grand canyon."

I don't remember getting an invite to that photoshoot. So probably a side canyon full is misrepresented in that pic.
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post #18 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 04:47 PM
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Oil can be recycled and much of that is done, so for a consumable it's a pretty good one.
What ???!! - you got a CO2 capture device on your exhaust.

Not only is it not recycled ..it's poorly used as efficiency is low. Are you thinking that oil is not gasoline feedstock.

It is nice that motor oil is recycled...it's a tiny factor and irrelevant since it's not burned for fuel.

Coal gets the bad rap it deserves on all counts.


Ontario Canada rider staying in Cairns Australian Feb to May & Aug-Oct each year
Canada 2018 CB500x >2009 CBF1000 sold • 10 Wee ABS sold • 09 Burgman Exec sold • 10 NT700v sold
Australia> 04 KLR650 • 93 ST1100 sold •
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post #19 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 04:57 PM
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Oil in **in** the engine can and is recycled.

If I recall correctly, the vast majority of oil is used fo rothe purposes than being consumed as fuel. Plastics come to mind as a big part (however bad.) Few things in our modern society would exist without oil.

..Tom
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post #20 of 36 Old 01-20-2019, 05:58 PM
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I will be one of the late adopters of electric bikes and cars. I have many reasons, but my breath will be wasted on the enlightened EV fans.
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