Help, brake bleeding. - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Help, brake bleeding.

Installed a set of 4-pot calipers on the front using the SVRacing adapters and Galfer lines.
Added new Dot 4 to the system. A friend and I poured the fluid into the reservoir and sucked it out of the calipers using a vacuum bleeder. Did it until no air came out of both front calipers.
Front brake lever still really spongy. So we reversed the process and added the fluid into the calipers and drew it out of the new banjo bleeder I bought from SVRacing. Pulled a ton of fluid thru the system this opposite direction also. Still have a spongy front brake lever.
All I can think of is that there's still obviously an air bubble somewhere, but can't see how given what we did above. Maybe in the ABS pump, that the shop manual calls the HU/Hydraulic unit?
So I've zipped tied the front brake lever pulled in and will leave it there overnight. Maybe I'll get luck and whatever bubble is there isn't stuck in the HU and will migrate to the top where we can pull it out of the upper Banjo bleeder or hopefully it will just migrate into the master cylinder, who knows?

Any suggestions??!!

Thanks!!

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post #2 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 10:20 PM
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Try holding slight pressure on the brake lever as you slightly loosen the hose banjo bolt at the master cylinder--look for bubbles as the lever is pulled back. Be sure to tighten the banjo bolt before you release the brake lever. Repeat this process at the right caliper then the left caliper, and finally at the bleeder screws under pressure. Air likes to hide in the banjo bolt. This also applies to the rear brake circuit as well. With oem brake hoses I'd recommend using hose pinch-off pliers to isolate each branch of the hydraulic circuit, but I woudnt do that with your SS lines.
Does your brake lever "pump-up" if you pull and release rapidly? If so, look at the caliper pistons being pulled back in their bores(Ive seen that). I did have an issue like that years ago with a GSXR-750--it was a bleeder valve atop the front master cylinder under a rubber boot. Ive also had to loosen and tighten under pressure the pipes at the ABS unit while checking for bubbles. I have had to, but Ive read that sometimes the ABS unit needs to be actuated to remove air. Ive recently flushed brake fluids in my '14 DL1000 and a friend's 'DL650, but I made sure the reservois didnt run dry at any time.

Last edited by MAZ4ME; 03-11-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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post #3 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZ4ME View Post
Try holding slight pressure on the brake lever as you slightly loosen the hose banjo bolt at the master cylinder--look for bubbles as the lever is pulled back. Be sure to tighten the banjo bolt before you release the brake lever. Repeat this process at the right caliper then the left caliper, and finally at the bleeder screws under pressure. Air likes to hide in the banjo bolt. This also applies to the rear brake circuit as well. With oem brake hoses I'd recommend using hose pinch-off pliers to isolate each branch of the hydraulic circuit, but I woudnt do that with your SS lines.
Does your brake lever "pump-up" if you pull and release rapidly? If so, look at the caliper pistons being pulled back in their bores(Ive seen that). I did have an issue like that years ago with a GSXR-750--it was a bleeder valve atop the front master cylinder under a rubber boot. Ive also had to loosen and tighten under pressure the pipes at the ABS unit while checking for bubbles. I have had to, but Ive read that sometimes the ABS unit needs to be actuated to remove air. Ive recently flushed brake fluids in my '14 DL1000 and a friend's 'DL650, but I made sure the reservois didnt run dry at any time.
I wonder if starting up the bike with it on the center stand, putting it into gear, and then stepping on and holding the rear brake pedal would continuously fool the ABS to thinking the rear wheel was locked up and make the ABS pump stay continuously activated thereby pushing out any trapped air. However if that worked, that might just push the air somewhere else into the system, requiring a full flush again just to work it out.

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post #4 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 10:41 PM
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That would be no different than running the bike on the center stand in gear and running the bike--the front wheel would then be stationary. But you can try it. I generally try to make sure the conventional system is 100% before I play with the ABS system.
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post #5 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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That would be no different than running the bike on the center stand in gear and running the bike--the front wheel would then be stationary. But you can try it. I generally try to make sure the conventional system is 100% before I play with the ABS system.
I figure that by doing it the normal way on the road, the ABS pump would only kick in during the period of time that the brakes are automatically released, whereas (maybe.......) doing it on the center stand would allow the ABS pump to continue cycling as long as your on the rear brake pedal, thinking that the wheel is still locked up.

Actually, I just went out to the garage and clipped the zip tie holding the front brake lever in and "gosh darn it" it feels fairly tight now. I think that by tying back the lever, any residual air that was somehow trapped in there even though I pushed 10 tons of fluid thru both directions, may have migrated upwards and dissolved into the air space in the master cylinder, which was my intent by tying back the lever and letting it sit for several hours. Going to push more fluid up from the calipers and thru my new master banjo tomorrow just to make sure, making sure I don't introduce any new air into the calipers.
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post #6 of 86 Old 03-11-2019, 11:52 PM
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My 4 pots had the same issue. Zip tie at night for several nights and gravel road abs activation did the trick finally.

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post #7 of 86 Old 03-12-2019, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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My 4 pots had the same issue. Zip tie at night for several nights and gravel road abs activation did the trick finally.

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Did the ABS activation allow any trapped air to migrate into the MC, or did you have to bleed it off again?

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post #8 of 86 Old 03-12-2019, 12:27 AM
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My guess is that there was an air bubble that I worked out of the abs and up into the MC using the zip tie method. It took a few times.

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post #9 of 86 Old 03-12-2019, 02:15 AM
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WVS and Hatchi, I have to tell you...
In all the years Ive worked on bikes Ive never used the zip-tie method. Never had to.
I realize some service manuals show that, but for sure none of mine do, including my '14 DL1000 shop manual.
In WVS's case I think having the lever tied to the bar has the master cylinder piston closes off the compensating port in the master cylinder, so trapped air can't be released into the master cylinder reservoir, and stays in the hydraulic circuit.
I do know using zip ties during bleeding has been discussed in the past on this forum, maybe in relation to a clutch plate being pushed off its spline. I dont use a zip tie for servicing the clutch hydraulics either.
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post #10 of 86 Old 03-12-2019, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZ4ME View Post
WVS and Hatchi, I have to tell you...
In all the years Ive worked on bikes Ive never used the zip-tie method. Never had to.
I realize some service manuals show that, but for sure none of mine do, including my '14 DL1000 shop manual.
In WVS's case I think having the lever tied to the bar has the master cylinder piston closes off the compensating port in the master cylinder, so trapped air can't be released into the master cylinder reservoir, and stays in the hydraulic circuit.
I do know using zip ties during bleeding has been discussed in the past on this forum, maybe in relation to a clutch plate being pushed off its spline. I dont use a zip tie for servicing the clutch hydraulics either.
The instructions that came with the Galfer lines say to do it, but I think that's because they want you to pressurize the lines for a leak check.
Wouldn't zip tying the lever open up a path to the MC allowing air to escape?

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