Extended front brake line, '13 Wee ABS - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 25 Old 12-02-2018, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Question Extended front brake line, '13 Wee ABS

Greetings, fellow Strommers!

In anticipation of adding some moderate-sized risers, I ordered up a 2" extended front brake line from Richland Rich. Yes, I've read plenty of posts from others who said that with up to 20mm risers, there was no real need to extend the line...but I'm going to err on the side of caution.

While installation looks pretty simple, I have a couple of questions...

My only other experience with an ABS-equipped bike was an '04 BMW R1150GS...the one with the lovely whining "power assist" ABS pump! I learned how to cycle the brake fluid in that, which, while not difficult, was a bit of a drawn-out process. It appears the Suzuki system is altogether different.

- Top round connection to the front master cylinder, no (apparent) problemo.

- The bottom square 90 degree connector bolts up under the front triple tree, above the radiator; I can see the line going back to the pump, running back under the fuel tank.. That's the "in" line from the front master cylinder; line on other side goes down to the caliper, and then "y's" off to the wrap-around line for the other front caliper.

#1: Is there any slack in that line that goes back to the pump, to where I can get some wrenches on it to disconnect the existing line from the existing block, or am I going to have to remove a bunch of stuff to get to it?

#2: On the front end of that pump line, will the connection simply unscrew from the existing block or will I have to resort to winding the block end of that new line onto the pump line itself?

#3: When I crack that line that comes from the ABS pump to that front block, is that going to introduce air into the ABS pump itself? Will a bunch of fluid drain out of the the pump through that line, or, with the battery disconnected and no electrical connection, do internal valves prevent an air introduction / substantial fluid loss from the pump?

#4: I have the actual Suzuki service manual and went through the section that involved cycling brake fluid. It appears that while you can bleed from the front / rear lines, master cylinders to the respective calipers, there is no need to bleed the pump itself?

If I install the new line and bleed the front caliper, when I fire the bike up, is that going to replenish any fluid loss (if any) from the pump itself? If so, I'm assuming that I'll need to recheck the front master cylinder level after running the bike in case some fluid was drawn into the pump from the front m/c itself?

Cheers!
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Bendmac/Central Oregon

2013 Wee Adv...

EnduroGuardian bash plate/highway pegs/radiator guard;
AdventureTech LLC peg lowering mounts/mirror extenders/fork brace/shifter relocation kit, 2" extended front brake line;
Saddleman Gel-Channel Tech seat;
Barkbuster Storm hand guards;
Oxford heated grips;
Blue Seas 5025 6 circuit fuse block;
12v weatherproof power port;
Eastern Beaver headlight relay kit;
Cree LED lights;
Signal Dynamics voltage monitor;
Kisan signalMinder
PWD Stebel horn kit;
"Home grown" tool tube;
"Sasquatched" (Adventure Power Sports) rear shock
Madstad bracket and 22" screen
Roadstercycle SH775 R/R upgrade
SW-Motech bar risers
Mr. Ed's Moto custom seat
Superbright LED headlight bulbs and other bulbs converted to LED

Last edited by bendmac; 12-02-2018 at 07:59 PM.
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post #2 of 25 Old 12-02-2018, 09:01 PM
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Bendmac, it's good practice to bleed the brake(or clutch if youre working on it) system ANYTIME you open a hydraulic line or fitting. It's best to use line wrenches, or line crowsfoot line wrenches when servicing lines or fittings.
Open-end wrenches or crescent wrenches can round off a fitting, and the crowsfoot wrenches allow you to use ratchets and extensions for ease of access. I use 1/4" and 3/8" metric crowsfoot wrenches when servicing hydraulics.
I've flushed and bleed motorcycle ABS systems, nothing special here, except it's best to operate the ABS pump by performing a mild ABS stop. This will activate the solenoids and valves in the pump. I have bled pumps that do not have a self-bleeding program in the HU/pump assembly. Just bleed it as you would a non-ABS model. With crowsfoot line wrenches you can slightly loosen the lines-one at a time- and bleed air there as well.
Firing up the bike wont make any difference, it'll fill the pump as you bleed the system, and always recheck and fill the master cylinder reservoir(s).
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-02-2018, 09:18 PM
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#1: Is there any slack in that line that goes back to the pump, to where I can get some wrenches on it to disconnect the existing line from the existing block, or am I going to have to remove a bunch of stuff to get to it? The lines are solid pipes and there is little give. I have not done the swap, so cant comment on access and on #2

#2: On the front end of that pump line, will the connection simply unscrew from the existing block or will I have to resort to winding the block end of that new line onto the pump line itself?

#3: When I crack that line that comes from the ABS pump to that front block, is that going to introduce air into the ABS pump itself? Will a bunch of fluid drain out of the the pump through that line, or, with the battery disconnected and no electrical connection, do internal valves prevent an air introduction / substantial fluid loss from the pump? I think the pump is lower so the pump (ABS module) should not drain.

#4: I have the actual Suzuki service manual and went through the section that involved cycling brake fluid. It appears that while you can bleed from the front / rear lines, master cylinders to the respective calipers, there is no need to bleed the pump itself? For the job you are planning I would try to re-fill the system by a pressurizing syringe from the caliper. The air bubbles want to rise and trying to get them out from the MC to the caliper will be difficult

.
Blau1 2004 DL650-sold
Blau2 2014 DL1000A
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post #4 of 25 Old 12-03-2018, 06:05 AM
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I did this (1"-2" extension line - Adventure Tech kit) and had plenty of slack to work with (reason was I added 2" up / back bar raisers plus I raised the fender). It helps to take out the block's frame anchoring bolts so it can sag down away from the frame and provide enough clearance to make the swap out easy. At least with mine, I couldn't use all of the OEM stuff but the kit provided what I needed. After the lines were firmly secured to the block, then I anchored the block and finished the plumbing at the wheel. Bled the system afterwards and that was a year ago - all good.
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post #5 of 25 Old 12-03-2018, 06:45 PM
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#1 No, there is no slack. You will not be able to pull the line forward for easier access. I found it neccessary to drop the radiator to allow my hands adequate access.

#2 Yes, the flare nut will turn.

#3 Yes, brake fluid will run out, and air will go into the line, when you break the connection. Pump the fluid out prior to replacing the line. No air was introduced to the pump when I did this.

#4 I had no issue with the pump introducing air into the lines the first time I activated ABS after doing a line and fluid swap. Use speed bleeders.
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post #6 of 25 Old 12-03-2018, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the replies...shouldn't be too bad of a job, it appears.

Bikehigh...On #3 in your reply...I'm assuming you mean drain the line from that "junction block" above the radiator that runs down to the caliper, and NOT drain the entire ABS pump, correct? Is that as simple as simply removing the bottom of the old line, letting it drain and then proceeding to install the new extended line?

Cheers!

Bendmac/Central Oregon

2013 Wee Adv...

EnduroGuardian bash plate/highway pegs/radiator guard;
AdventureTech LLC peg lowering mounts/mirror extenders/fork brace/shifter relocation kit, 2" extended front brake line;
Saddleman Gel-Channel Tech seat;
Barkbuster Storm hand guards;
Oxford heated grips;
Blue Seas 5025 6 circuit fuse block;
12v weatherproof power port;
Eastern Beaver headlight relay kit;
Cree LED lights;
Signal Dynamics voltage monitor;
Kisan signalMinder
PWD Stebel horn kit;
"Home grown" tool tube;
"Sasquatched" (Adventure Power Sports) rear shock
Madstad bracket and 22" screen
Roadstercycle SH775 R/R upgrade
SW-Motech bar risers
Mr. Ed's Moto custom seat
Superbright LED headlight bulbs and other bulbs converted to LED
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-03-2018, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendmac View Post
Thanks to everyone for the replies...shouldn't be too bad of a job, it appears.

Bikehigh...On #3 in your reply...I'm assuming you mean drain the line from that "junction block" above the radiator that runs down to the caliper, and NOT drain the entire ABS pump, correct? Is that as simple as simply removing the bottom of the old line, letting it drain and then proceeding to install the new extended line?

Cheers!
Nah, I meant drain the entire front brake system. You're going to be installing a new upper hose, so you're introducing a whole hose full of air anyway. There's really no reason not to replace all the fluid. After 5 years it kind of needs it. Just attach a hose over the bleeder, crack it, and start pumping the brake lever till there's no more fluid coming out. Then switch to the other caliper and repeat. Swap in some speed bleeders prior to refilling with DOT 5.1 fluid and life will be good. I understand your worry after dealing with the BMW system, but there's really no reason for concern.
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post #8 of 25 Old 12-03-2018, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the clarification...

I was an "engineer" (glorified mechanic) in the Coast Guard YEARS ago, so I'm always a little inquisitive as to WHY things work the way they do instead of simply settling for, "Because that's how they designed it!" LOL...sorry if this makes me come across as a bit of a dunce...

So when I've replaced the line and completely bled the front system to where I have pressure on the brake lever, when I fire the bike up, is that going to drop the level in the master cylinder at all? Since there are electrical solenoids inside the pump, when those get activated when I start the bike, it seems fluid would get sucked into either the line I replaced or back into the pump itself. Or, do those solenoids and such only activate if the system senses the need to pulse ABS to whichever caliper needs it?

Lastly...manual calls for DOT 4 and you suggested DOT 5.1...those compatible with each other?

Thanks again for patience and advice!

Cheers...

Bendmac/Central Oregon

2013 Wee Adv...

EnduroGuardian bash plate/highway pegs/radiator guard;
AdventureTech LLC peg lowering mounts/mirror extenders/fork brace/shifter relocation kit, 2" extended front brake line;
Saddleman Gel-Channel Tech seat;
Barkbuster Storm hand guards;
Oxford heated grips;
Blue Seas 5025 6 circuit fuse block;
12v weatherproof power port;
Eastern Beaver headlight relay kit;
Cree LED lights;
Signal Dynamics voltage monitor;
Kisan signalMinder
PWD Stebel horn kit;
"Home grown" tool tube;
"Sasquatched" (Adventure Power Sports) rear shock
Madstad bracket and 22" screen
Roadstercycle SH775 R/R upgrade
SW-Motech bar risers
Mr. Ed's Moto custom seat
Superbright LED headlight bulbs and other bulbs converted to LED
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post #9 of 25 Old 12-04-2018, 12:22 AM
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Bendmac, I suggest using the specified DOT4 fluid unless your specific needs call for it.

Here are the differences:What is the Difference between DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 Brake Fluid? | Epic Bleed Solutions.

Unless youre playing "SpeedWrench", I dont see the need for speedbleeders. A proper wrench on the bleeder screw, a hand on the lever or pedal, 15 seconds per caliper is all you need.

Actually, I apply an air-powered vacuum bleeder to the screw just to save a mess, open it til the reservoir is just above empty then close the screw. Fill the reservoir, repeat....and DONE. A quick opening of the hose junction banjo bolts while under slight lever or pedal pressure, look for bubbles, tighten the banjo bolts finish at the bleeder screws, refill the reservoir, and that's all there is to it. Nothing special. After youve done it the 1st time youll wonder what all the fuss was about.
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post #10 of 25 Old 12-04-2018, 09:01 AM
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Yes, DOT 5.1 is completely compatible and interchangeable with DOT 4 fluid. I went with 5.1 because of the advertised higher boiling point. I tend to ride pretty aggressively in the twisties, sometimes with my sweety on the back. And while I have never had an issue with fluid boiling during one of these sessions, the extra headroom doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

Regarding the pump dropping the level of the fluid in the master cylinder, I don't think it does, but if it does, it's not an appreciable amount. To tell you the truth, I haven't opened the lid since I refilled the fluid and did the initial bleed. The brakes have been rock solid, both before and after the ABS system activated. The sight glass shows full, so I haven't felt the need to open things up and look.

Whether or not you use speed bleeders or a vacuum pump is up to you. Hell, even doing it the old fashioned way will work too. I just know the speed bleeders work beautifully.
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