2013 dl650 throttle body balancing - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
DL650A - 2012-2016 DL650A 2012-2016 (L2-L6)

 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
Stromthusiast!
Junior Trooper
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
2013 dl650 throttle body balancing

I used to balance the throttle bodies on my fuel injected SV650 using vacuum gauges. For the vstrom the manual states that this can only be done by a dealer as the ECU needs updated at the same time?
Can anybody tell me if they have done a throttle body balance at home on a glee and if it was successful how they did it?
Don't want to pay for such a simple job.
vegashotwheeler likes this.
winder9561 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 10:27 AM
Super Moderator
 
Big B's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central OHIO "Go Buckeyes"
Posts: 16,525
Garage
It's not the same for the 12-current Stroms, a dealer does have to do it to my knowledge. Very few claims here of any 12-current 650's needing a TB balance, it's overall pretty rare.
Hatchi likes this.

BRIAN "GO Buckeyes, GO Wildcats"!

2015 DL650 XT "Hector"

1997 Honda Valkyrie 1500 custom “Dolores”




Big B is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 06:55 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
pvwheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Wiarton,Ont Canada
Posts: 745
You would need the SDS tool. It plugs in to your laptop. The one from Healtech was somewhere around $200 I think.
As well as carb sticks of some sort. I agree with Brian, never noticed much difference on my 650s. The 1000s however were another story
Steve
ps, IIRC it is needed for an 07 up 650. Not till 2014 for the 1000.
garyracetools likes this.

2015 Wee2 EXP "Arya"
2002 DR650 SM "Tormund"
2014 CB500x (wifes)
2018 XT 250 (wifes)
pvwheeler is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 06:56 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
dmfdmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: California
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by winder9561 View Post
I used to balance the throttle bodies on my fuel injected SV650 using vacuum gauges. For the vstrom the manual states that this can only be done by a dealer as the ECU needs updated at the same time?
There is a bit of confusion regarding what is or is not a TB sync or balance as the terminology is confusing and the procedure has changed over time. Read my brief summary in this thread about motor vibrations. For 2007 and later Wee models the procedure in the service manual is for an idle-air screw adjustment that balances the power between the cylinders at idle only, i.e. when the throttle is closed. The dealership uses a special diagnostic computer they call SDS (not available to the public) that locks the ISC (idle speed control) valve at a specific mid-range position during the test. There is no need for an ECU update.

During normal operation the ECU controls the ISC valve to maintain idle at 1360RPM. If you adjust the idle-air screws to balance the vacuum between cylinders the idle will naturally change a bit due to the change in air flow. However, if the ISC valve is not locked out you will be fighting the ECU which is adjusting the valve to hold idle at 1360RPM. This not only can make it difficult to actually balance the cylinders properly but can upset the ISC valve so that it is not at mid-range during idle at normal temps and air pressure which can impact proper idle control at high or low ambient temps or high altitudes. Moreover, on one of the 'Strom or SV sites a former Suzuki mechanic recommended against doing the adjustment without ISC valve lockout. He explained that one of the exercises he did in the Suzuki training demonstrated how easy it is to "walk" the ISC valve to one extreme or another during an adjustment if it is not locked out and the motors ran poorly.

Quote:
Can anybody tell me if they have done a throttle body balance at home on a glee and if it was successful how they did it?
Don't want to pay for such a simple job.
Some riders have done the sync without any ISC lockout and claim to have success, there is a really good procedure over on vstrom.info that goes into it in detail with pics. Some riders (including Greywolf), after paying for a dealership sync, concluded that the sync doesn't really impact the performance of an ECU controlled motor all that much except a slightly smoother idle and slightly more power just coming off idle when you are engaging the clutch, i.e. don't bother. Others have bought a Suzuki SDS that occasionally show up on ebay or they buy the Healtech OBD computer that will lock out the ISC but these are expensive at $200+.

As for me, in addition to not wanting to pay for the service I also do not want anyone else to touch my bike. So I developed an ISC lockout procedure for my K7 but I never posted it since it was very primitive and I got side tracked on rebuilding my throttle bodies then I sold the bike. I am in the process of adapting and refining the procedure for the L4 as it has serious vibration issues and I need to sync the throttle plates and if I do that I will need to do an idle-air sync. I am hoping to complete the work soon and post the procedure in a month or two because the vibrations on my new bike are driving me crazy.
Big B and pvwheeler like this.

Pink Floyd: And did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 2014 V-Strom DL650 ABS Red
Next Up: ?
Past: Suzuki: DL650AK7, GS400; Honda: CB125, Express 49cc

Last edited by dmfdmf; 07-26-2018 at 07:21 PM.
dmfdmf is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 09:54 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Thighrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Canada's East Coast
Posts: 118
Garage
It seems I'm hearing conflicting info regarding the value of a throttle body synch on late model stroms.

I have a 2015 DL650 with 41k km. It seems to have more vibs than it used to, particularly above 4k rpm. I'm wondering if there are potential improvements to be gained in synching the throttle bodies?

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

- Suzuki V-Strom DL650 (2015)
- Honda CRF 250L (2014)
- Triumph Street Triple (2016)

Last edited by Thighrod; 07-26-2018 at 10:36 PM.
Thighrod is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 07-26-2018, 11:04 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
dmfdmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: California
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thighrod View Post
It seems I'm hearing conflicting info regarding the value of a throttle body synch on late model stroms. I have a 2015 DL650 with 41k km. It seems to have more vibs than it used to, particularly above 4k rpm. I'm wondering if there are potential improvements to be gained in synching the throttle bodies?
If you took it to a dealership and asked for a "throttle body sync" they will adjust the idle-air screws which only impacts balance at idle. Once the throttle is cracked the idle circuit is out of the picture so can not be a source of vibrations at 4000RPM.

For 2007 a later models there is no procedure to sync the throttle plates. In previous models, the throttle plates are sync'd by adjusting the linkages connecting the front/rear throttle bodies but no such procedure exists for the newer ECU controlled models. If these plates are out of sync you will experience vibration across the RPM band but more noticeable at low to mid-range RPMs. I had a K7 with two different out-of-balance throttle bodies and the vibration is primarily felt in the seat, pegs, hand grips and blurry mirrors if really bad. If you don't feel vibes from those components then maybe something has worked loose and is just amplifying the sound at certain RPMs. Go through the bike and tighten anything you can get a wrench on and the problem may go away.

My new-to-me L4 has the exact same symptoms at around 4-5K RPM at only 4500 miles, so I think either the PO or his mechanic messed with the linkages. I am gearing up to pull my throttle bodies and resync them despite Suzuki's warnings. Here are some relevant links from my K7 work;

Throttle Body Rebuild (K7 650)
Throttle Body Butterfly Sync (NOT idle air needle adjustment sync)
Vibrations?

Pink Floyd: And did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 2014 V-Strom DL650 ABS Red
Next Up: ?
Past: Suzuki: DL650AK7, GS400; Honda: CB125, Express 49cc
dmfdmf is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 07-27-2018, 07:08 AM
Stromthusiast!
 
Thighrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Canada's East Coast
Posts: 118
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmfdmf View Post
If you took it to a dealership and asked for a "throttle body sync" they will adjust the idle-air screws which only impacts balance at idle. Once the throttle is cracked the idle circuit is out of the picture so can not be a source of vibrations at 4000RPM.

For 2007 a later models there is no procedure to sync the throttle plates. In previous models, the throttle plates are sync'd by adjusting the linkages connecting the front/rear throttle bodies but no such procedure exists for the newer ECU controlled models. If these plates are out of sync you will experience vibration across the RPM band but more noticeable at low to mid-range RPMs. I had a K7 with two different out-of-balance throttle bodies and the vibration is primarily felt in the seat, pegs, hand grips and blurry mirrors if really bad. If you don't feel vibes from those components then maybe something has worked loose and is just amplifying the sound at certain RPMs. Go through the bike and tighten anything you can get a wrench on and the problem may go away.

My new-to-me L4 has the exact same symptoms at around 4-5K RPM at only 4500 miles, so I think either the PO or his mechanic messed with the linkages. I am gearing up to pull my throttle bodies and resync them despite Suzuki's warnings. Here are some relevant links from my K7 work;

Throttle Body Rebuild (K7 650)
Throttle Body Butterfly Sync (NOT idle air needle adjustment sync)
Vibrations?
Yes, that's my issue, increased vibes through the seat and pegs most noticeably. Nothing serious, but less than optimal, and I'm aiming for optimal.

Curious to see how you make out.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

- Suzuki V-Strom DL650 (2015)
- Honda CRF 250L (2014)
- Triumph Street Triple (2016)
Thighrod is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 07-27-2018, 07:32 AM
Official Stromtrooper.com Sponsor
 
realshelby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,923
Throttle body synchronization is less important on the 650 than the 1000. How can that be? Once you pass about 3000 rpm, and/or have the throttle blades open beyond easy cruising levels throttle body synchronization has little to no effect on how the engine vibrates or runs. They would have to be VERY far off to matter at that point. Since the 650 runs with the throttle a bit more advanced in all conditions, you get past where the synchronization matters quickly compared to the 1000.

If you are chasing vibrations at speed, TBS isn't usually the cause. A large imbalance can sure cause it, like when a throttle body boot slips off on the 1000's. Anything above idle and low speed, low load operation isn't likely going to be fixed with a TBS. Once the throttle blades open beyond about 1/8 of the way, synchronization just doesn't mean much.
Big B, VSrider and Hatchi like this.

'12 DL 650 '14 BMW R 1200 RT

WERKS modified clutch baskets for DL and SV 1000's.
The BEST in chudder control, noise control, and lasting durability! AVAILABLE HERE: www.werksparts.com

Have questions about the clutch in your DL or SV 1000? E-mail Terry [email protected]
realshelby is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 07-27-2018, 09:07 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
dmfdmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: California
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
Throttle body synchronization is less important on the 650 than the 1000.
This is true but "less important" does not mean "not important".

Quote:
How can that be? Once you pass about 3000 rpm, and/or have the throttle blades open beyond easy cruising levels throttle body synchronization has little to no effect on how the engine vibrates or runs. They would have to be VERY far off to matter at that point.
I agree that at some open throttle position the difference won't matter as much but it is definitely higher than 3K RPM. On my K7 I could feel the vibes all the way to 5-6K RPM. On the freeway cruising at 75-80MPH with RPMs in that range I could feel vibrations in seat, pegs, handle bars & etc. The mirrors were unusably blurry. Once I sync'd the butterflies those problems went away. As a test I threw in some K9 throttle bodies off ebay with no TB sync adjustment and they worked fine, well within "normal" vibes but I could still feel it. I pulled them and sync'd them per my procedure and the vibrations were noticeably and significantly reduced across the RPM band. Once you taste a properly sync'd TB you can't go back, I swear!

My L4 has the exact same symptoms and I often run it to 6-7K RPM when cruising to reduce the vibes but it does not get rid of the vibrations it only makes them less annoying. Also, if I am running in the twisties then the RPM is varying from 2K to 9K and the vibes are particularly bad. I hate it and my K7 was much smoother.

Quote:
Since the 650 runs with the throttle a bit more advanced in all conditions, you get past where the synchronization matters quickly compared to the 1000.
I am sure there is a difference in the throttle positions for 650 -vs- 1000 for a given condition primarily due to the higher HP of the 1K (whatever the speed/load on the bike the 1K needs less throttle to hold steady) but I highly doubt the difference is all that much. Moreover, its not like the 650 is under powered and you have to run WOT like a 250 while the 1000 is running with a slightly cracked throttle. The 650 is still susceptible to vibration due to badly sync'd TBs and, as far as I can tell from actual tests, they don't have to be wildly out of balance.

Quote:
If you are chasing vibrations at speed, TBS isn't usually the cause. A large imbalance can sure cause it, like when a throttle body boot slips off on the 1000's. Anything above idle and low speed, low load operation isn't likely going to be fixed with a TBS. Once the throttle blades open beyond about 1/8 of the way, synchronization just doesn't mean much.
I disagree and I doubt my arguments will convince anyone but if someone has a viby bike and wants to try my procedure I am happy to advise.

Pink Floyd: And did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 2014 V-Strom DL650 ABS Red
Next Up: ?
Past: Suzuki: DL650AK7, GS400; Honda: CB125, Express 49cc
dmfdmf is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 07-28-2018, 07:49 AM
Stromthusiast!
 
D.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Moneyapolis, MN
Posts: 1,986
I just put on the MP vacuum gauge set, then adjust the rear idle air screw to balance. Easy.

You can use the SDS and all that reset stuff. I just don't.

2012 Suzuki DL650AL2, over 45k miles already!
D.T. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome