Traction control - Page 2 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
DL1000A - 2017+ DL1000A - 2017 (L7) and later

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post #11 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 04:54 AM
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Yes but also in both cases those first few wheel revolutions after you turn the key on are used to work out what the ratio of front wheel to rear wheel ticks is.

I guess it could happen if you had a gravel driveway but I don't think tire size as such is the cause. Yeah there is a point where the auto-cal gives up but that's not intermittent.
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bugzy View Post
TC2 is useless in my eyes. Maybe it works on wet roads sometimes, but do not try to use it off-road, all you will end up doing is repeatedly stalling the engine.

The tires are not necessarily the issue here, although of course, trying use street tires in mud with TC2 is going to end badly every time.

I have my TC turned off all the time these days.
Just for the benefit of any newer riders or folks with little or no experience with TC who may come along and read this thread later... TC2 is absolutely not useless. In fact, I ride with TC2 virtually 100% of the time as I don't ride in dirt/gravel and I don't ride very aggressively. I've activated it a small handful of times when I was overzealous with the throttle and it probably helped keep things under control which is exactly what it's supposed to do.

In Bugzy's case, he says he rides off-road so that's a very different use case than street riding. So to say that TC2 is not useful off-road may be accurate.

I would absolutely not turn off TC completely if you're riding street and/or you don't really know what you're doing.

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post #13 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 09:00 AM
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Yes but also in both cases those first few wheel revolutions after you turn the key on are used to work out what the ratio of front wheel to rear wheel ticks is.
...
My gut says it isn't doing that, just checking to see that the sensors are getting a reading. (But I don't actually know.) I

f my thoughts are correct, and the tires the op put on have enough difference in size between the front and back then it would explain why the system is "coming on pretty much all the time" when in mode 2 as it is more sensitive.

..Tom

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2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 160,000+ km, 100,000+ miles.

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post #14 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 10:27 AM
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"Yes but also in both cases those first few wheel revolutions after you turn the key on are used to work out what the ratio of front wheel to rear wheel ticks is."

Sorry, no.
The ABS control unit logic has a set parameter for that ratio. That parameter is wide enough in range to take into account the differences in tire diameters--to a point. Outside of that range, you have a TC/ABS malfunction indicator lamp on with a diagnostic trouble code stored in the control unit's memory.

Many times Ive had vehicles come to me with a ABS/TC light on. The 2nd thing I did for diagnosis, after verifying the light on and retrieving the trouble code was to inspect the tires for circumference and pressure. The usual customer complaint was "My ABS lamp is on and I just got tires replaced." Usually it was the fronts OR the rears. All 4 changed with the same brand, series, and size, not a problem.

I never had to drive a car to get a TC or ABS lamp to go out unless it was after a repair for which the light came on in the 1st place. Once repaired, the lamp was on until the control unit received acceptable signals from the wheel speed
sensors. If all was a go, the light would go out. Or running a car in gear on a lift. Same deal on a motorcycle running the engine in gear with the bike on front and rear stands. The light would be on until the control unit judged the wheel speed sensor reading to be in the correct range. Doing that with a car on the lift with TC engaged would have the the engine bucking and surging, not revving thinking that wheels were slipping. Back on the ground, driving it would turn off the light as long as the ABS control unit saw what it was looking for.
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MAZ4ME View Post
...
The ABS control unit logic has a set parameter for that ratio. That parameter is wide enough in range to take into account the differences in tire diameters--to a point. Outside of that range, you have a TC/ABS malfunction indicator lamp on with a diagnostic trouble code stored in the control unit's memory.
...
Thanks for explaining in detail! It is pretty much as I understood (but don't have the technical training you have to be able to explain in detail.)

This is a bit off topic: One thing I am still trying to understand relates to riders that have changed the front sprocket one tooth. There have been several people that have reported the TC light coming on much more often with the change. I doubt one tooth can cause that much wheel-spin to cause the light to trigger so much. Obviously the ECU knows engine revs but I doubt it takes the effort to calculate the revs vs gear etc and use that as an input. I wonder if perhaps those that changed the front sprocket also changed the tires as well and are having issue related to the diameter difference.

..Tom

2006 DL650: 202,000 km 125,500 miles, Sold
2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 160,000+ km, 100,000+ miles.

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post #16 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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V-Tom, are these other people all riding Vstroms? If so, can you give a general year range?
It could happen depending on where the ABS control unit gets its speed signal from. For the front it could be the speedometer driven by a cable, or a sensor rotor.
For the rear the signal could be generated off the sensor rotor or a counter shaft sprocket sensor.
I can see how a change in diameters between the front and rear tires could trigger a light, but also can see how a gear ratio change could trigger a light as well. The rpm for a given road speed difference with a final drive gearing change could do that.
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post #17 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 01:10 PM
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V-Tom, are these other people all riding Vstroms? If so, can you give a general year range?
It could happen depending on where the ABS control unit gets its speed signal from. For the front it could be the speedometer driven by a cable, or a sensor rotor.
For the rear the signal could be generated off the sensor rotor or a counter shaft sprocket sensor.
I can see how a change in diameters between the front and rear tires could trigger a light, but also can see how a gear ratio change could trigger a light as well. The rpm for a given road speed difference with a final drive gearing change could do that.
IIRC they were 2014-2016 (17?) DL1000's. There are ABS sensor rings on both wheels and I've been told the Speedo gets its speed reading from them.
I could see the error if rear wheel-speed was detected before the front sprocket or calculated with rpm and gear but cant see why they would add that complexity for what could be done easier with the rear ABS sensor.

..Tom

2006 DL650: 202,000 km 125,500 miles, Sold
2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 160,000+ km, 100,000+ miles.

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post #18 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 01:46 PM
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V-Tom, no info here on ABS wheel speed detection strategy, but as the control unit compares both, I would think that it needs to see both to make a judgement.
For engine speed, looking in the ABS section of the service manual neither the wiring diagram nor 3 schematics show any correlation between engine rpm or transmission gear. So it appears that everything depends on the wheel speed sensors.
You have your 3 (+) fuses, battery, ignition switch, and wheel speed sensors as inputs. I see nothing ignition-related (rpm) as an input to the control unit.
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post #19 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 02:24 PM
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V-Tom, no info here on ABS wheel speed detection strategy, but as the control unit compares both, I would think that it needs to see both to make a judgement.
For engine speed, looking in the ABS section of the service manual neither the wiring diagram nor 3 schematics show any correlation between engine rpm or transmission gear. So it appears that everything depends on the wheel speed sensors.
You have your 3 (+) fuses, battery, ignition switch, and wheel speed sensors as inputs. I see nothing ignition-related (rpm) as an input to the control unit.
That's what I would have thought. I wonder if tire changes accompanied the sprocket changes.

..Tom

2006 DL650: 202,000 km 125,500 miles, Sold
2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 160,000+ km, 100,000+ miles.

This can help preventing from cars pulling out in front of you (SMIDSY)
SMIDSY detailed report.


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post #20 of 30 Old 03-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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My experience was that with the OEM Bridgestones on TC2 the TC was interfering too much on tarmac roads. As soon as I fitted Michelin Road 5's that interference almost ceased completely under the same conditions. That imho almost certainly suggests that the OEM tyres were not as grippy as the Michelins. The ABS confirmed that for me also.

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