Horsepower increases? - Page 4 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
DL1000A - 2014-2016 DL1000A - 2014-2016 (L4-L6)

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post #31 of 38 Old 05-26-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hogges View Post
Most of us, me definitely included, donít even use near the horsepower available on our bikes.
I totally agree. My old 2003 DL1000 is just fine for me. Anymore and it would be dangerous as far as I am concerned.

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post #32 of 38 Old 05-26-2019, 08:17 PM
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For what it's worth: In 1990 I attempted a record at Bonneville and everyone in the Gas classes had to use fuel from a Sunoco truck on site. The technician had a book (no iPads yet) that had the displacement and compression ratio for my FZ700. He gave me a choice of getting 1, 2 or 3 liters which he filled into a lab jar. Then he squirted two separate liquids into that jar via a large eye dropper. As he did all that, another guy had drained my tank. I explained to him that I had ridden this bike to Utah from California and that I hope to ride it back. He assured me that if was not too "hot" for my engine and that when I was ready to head back he would give me enough to get past Wendover. He did but that gas came from a different nozzle. My only point is that all gasolines are not really the same.They are just in the middle of a range. (no, I didn't set a record but was not embarrassed)

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post #33 of 38 Old 05-26-2019, 10:53 PM
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100LL AVGAS is far from "low lead". While the LL indicates that, it is simply a designator that came into play decades ago. AVGAS 100LL has a rather high lead content compared to what automotive fuels had. If you have oxygen sensors in your exhaust, you do NOT want to run AVGAS! It will quickly coat and ruin them.



The difference in low octane gasoline compared to high octane gasoline is not just in the additive package. Far from it. Lower octane fuels have more unstable hydrocarbons. The refining process can continue to lower those unstable hydrocarbons, which nets the higher octane fuels. Vapor pressure, and additives to adjust it, are added to both along with other additives to improve different properties of gasoline. But high octane fuel is NOT the same fuel as low octane before the additive packages are introduced. Most would assume there is regular, mid grade, and premium fuel in tanks below ground that is delivered from the refinery. Actually there is low octane and high octane. Blend pumps then blend these two grades to form the mid grade you buy.



Because high octane fuel is refined to a higher standard, there are some cases where it can produce more horsepower due to the energy content ( BTU per pound of fuel ). But it is NOT because of the octane rating, again simply because of the higher energy contained. In many cases lower octane fuel will actually make more horsepower as lower octane fuel can burn quicker and reach optimum cylinder pressure quicker. But this is very hard to test and prove, a dyno engine setup would be the only way to really prove it. It has been done, and the differences are very minor and not always repeatable across brands and runs of refined fuel. The only reason to run higher octane fuel is to get the most out of an engine designed for it. If not designed for high octane fuel, it is usually a waste of money as and improvement is likely a placebo effect.



We do agree that race fuel smell is intoxicating!


At our Shell fuel station that we had up until the early 2000s we did not blend reg and premium to get mid grade and I never seen a station that did that. We had 3 storage tanks that had the 3 grades.
In premium fuel you donít just get the higher octane from certain brands, as you say you get additives that clean fuel systems and help to have a better burn in the combustion chamber. Thus you shouldnít have to buy all the cleaning additives etc to your tank to keep injectors clean etc. Also up in Canada most or your premium fuels from the majors donít contain ethanol. Big advantage there.
When I was racing sleds in the WSA I ran Shell premium and the brand I was riding 2 stroke oil, plus I was running stock sleds, I could run a jet size leaner than other guys running the same sled. Then I had an engine pulled apart at factory and they had never seen an engine so clean.
One other thing about additives in fuels. Look at F1 they use to run special fuels from fuel company sponsors, these special blends could add 100 hps or more, but 45 gallon drums of the stuff could cost $100,000 or more. To cut cost FIA outlawed it. Now they run close to pump gas. I would say the additives do make a difference in premium.


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post #34 of 38 Old 05-27-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skom300 View Post
At our Shell fuel station that we had up until the early 2000s we did not blend reg and premium to get mid grade and I never seen a station that did that. We had 3 storage tanks that had the 3 grades.
In premium fuel you donít just get the higher octane from certain brands, as you say you get additives that clean fuel systems and help to have a better burn in the combustion chamber. Thus you shouldnít have to buy all the cleaning additives etc to your tank to keep injectors clean etc. Also up in Canada most or your premium fuels from the majors donít contain ethanol. Big advantage there.
Yes, at one time there were still some stations with 3 tanks. But I am not talking 15+ years ago. There were carry over stations that could not afford to upgrade to the new blend pumps. So, they could buy different grades. You say you have never seen a blend pump? Every pump with all three grades is almost guaranteed to be a blend pump. Years ago there was a regular pump, a mid grade pump ( many stations would only stock regular and premium ) for those that had enough sales to support it, and a premium pump. These were never blend pumps. But with the conversion to blend pumps you could pull up to ANY pump and fill up. Which effectively doubled or better how many vehicles could be filling up at one time. Which justified the expense of the blend pumps purchase and installation. Aside from a remote/rural station, I doubt you will find many pumps today that are not blend pumps.

The difference in cleaning additives between regular grade and premiums is not much if any. Used to be that was advertised as a reason to buy premium. But "top tier" standards have pretty much erased that now.

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post #35 of 38 Old 05-27-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
Yes, at one time there were still some stations with 3 tanks. But I am not talking 15+ years ago. There were carry over stations that could not afford to upgrade to the new blend pumps. So, they could buy different grades. You say you have never seen a blend pump? Every pump with all three grades is almost guaranteed to be a blend pump. Years ago there was a regular pump, a mid grade pump ( many stations would only stock regular and premium ) for those that had enough sales to support it, and a premium pump. These were never blend pumps. But with the conversion to blend pumps you could pull up to ANY pump and fill up. Which effectively doubled or better how many vehicles could be filling up at one time. Which justified the expense of the blend pumps purchase and installation. Aside from a remote/rural station, I doubt you will find many pumps today that are not blend pumps.



The difference in cleaning additives between regular grade and premiums is not much if any. Used to be that was advertised as a reason to buy premium. But "top tier" standards have pretty much erased that now.


We do things different in Canada.



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post #36 of 38 Old 05-27-2019, 04:13 PM
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An SV1000 engine has been done, but it wasn't easy and nobody else has tried it to my knowledge? That's what getting another bike in the garage is for IMHO, but I understand that isn't an option for many.
agreed, I've been spending the most time on my Vulcan 17000 nomad, but when I hope on the Vstrom for a ride it feels like a 200HP Superbike. The best performance mod i've ever made ! lol

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post #37 of 38 Old 05-29-2019, 05:39 PM
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Re: Octane vs. horsepower
I once read a tech article on this in Road & Track. All I’ve managed to retain is the analogy that running an engine tuned for regular gas on premium expecting to get more horsepower is like putting size 11 track shoes on your size 9 feet and expecting to run faster.
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post #38 of 38 Old 05-29-2019, 06:04 PM
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I'd have to see dyno tests showing any significant difference in power output from running different gasolines, excepting cases where the engine is retarding itself with lower octane fuel due to detonation (which the ECU detects with a knock sensor).

To be sure, not all gasolines are created equal. People don't pony up for VP Racing fuel just for the fun of it, I presume (though people have paid for lots of snake oil over the years).

But unless we're talking the "gasoline" they were using in Formula 1 cars in the 80s, some of which was engineered with compounds to add significant power (apparently), I would be highly surprised to see any major difference. Maybe a few percent one way or the other?

Fuel without oxygenates (alcohols) should provide more power, all else being equal, because they just don't have the energy density of non-oxygenated fuels. Ounce for ounce, alcohols just don't have the energy content of liquid hydrocarbons.
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