throttle body - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
DL1000A - 2014-2016 DL1000A - 2014-2016 (L4-L6)

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post #1 of 17 Old 10-08-2018, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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throttle body

3 years later after purchase and still trying to get this "off the showroom floor" dl1000 to behave properly. A brief visit to the past - Had the ECU issue, had the idle knock, had throttle bodies that wouldn't stay in synch which led to checking valves to find out the exhaust valves were bad from day one. Had to do all of this without the help of Suzuki who when I asked why the throttle bodies wouldn't stay in synch they told me to have them done at every oil change. And when I asked about the knocking I was told it could be bad gas. And I was blacklisted by local dealers because I got a lawyer to go after the one I purchased from. So all that being in the past I had a friend who had moved back to town who did all the work on my KLR do this for me. After replacing the valves and re synching the throttle bodies I was amazed how much different the bike was. It was what I had been expecting from the beginning. And I told my friend it was great. A couple weeks go by and I had some other things for him and for some reason beyond my thought process he decided to go back to the throttle bodies and in turn messed with the plates and reset, drops it off and says it's even better. Well it wasn't. He took it back and said he put everything back the way it was after first time that was perfect. It's not. I am loosing it with this. Any advise. I felt so damn good after getting it back from him the first time that i bit the bullet on center stand, windshield, Givi outbacks,etc. Thanks, Jimi
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-08-2018, 06:44 PM
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My vauge thoughts.

I know there was mention that after syncing there is a ECU reteach function to learn the new TPS position, and without doing this, it will be hossed up after cooling down and restarting. You nead some special ECU/diagnostic tool to do it.

It is possible to achieve a sync on a previously correct TPS setting without touching the rear blade/TPS position, and therfore not requiring the reteach. Its how I sync my 2015.

Its also possible when your friend adjusted it good, the TPS was in proper spot for ECU. Other times its posible the TPS didnt match the taught position, everything else was in sync, and after shutting down and it cooling off, its all cattywhompass then.

Best of luck.

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post #3 of 17 Old 10-08-2018, 07:29 PM
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Dmfdmf has posted some very valuable information on this subject. Start with this thread, and be sure to follow the embedded links to dmfdmf's other threads.

In short, the plates on the throttle body are not generally intended to be messed with as the adjustment is highly technical and requires some specialized equipment. The service manual says not to change them, but to simply replace them. They are about $1000. Thank goodness for the work the dmfdmf has done. He has figured out a pretty slick way for DIY plate adjustment.

Once I sync my ISC valves (should get the HealtTech SDS tomorrow - bummer that the USPS is closed today for Columbus Day), and perform a visual inspection of all the seals and boots, I will be able to see if that is good enough or if additional work is warranted. I will have to decide for myself if it is bad enough to risk the $1000 throttle bodies, since there is no one but myself or perhaps dmfdmf that will even bother to try to sync them if I screw it up.

Where are you located?
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-08-2018, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to both of you for your quick replies. It's appreciated. I will have my friend follow up with your info. I am in Florida. Thanks again, Jimi
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-09-2018, 01:22 AM
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@Grimmer
As far as I know, no one but me has used my TB primary plate sync procedure which is a shame because my K7 ran smooth as silk all the way to red-line after the sync (with two different sync'd TBs). My L4 Wee was buzzy when I got it but that turned out to be loose lower TB boot. It runs fine now but is a little buzzy at higher RPMs and I am going to try and fix that with a sync this Winter. If you decide to go for it I am happy to advise for free. If you fail I'd be happy to take a crack at it in exchange for borrowing your Healtech. I have a procedure for the Gen2 Wee of doing the idle-air sync with the STVA unplugged to block the ECU from controlling the idle and would love to do that procedure then check it with the Healtech to see if the ISC is in spec.

@Jimi
Your saga sounds very frustrating. I'm not totally familiar with the Vee but I have never heard of the TBs not staying in sync or the exhaust valves frying on a brand new bike.

BTW, if either of you don't want to mess with sync'ing TB plates the easiest solution is to buy a used TB off ebay. The only risk is that the seller is dumping TBs that are out of whack because they messed with the linkage screws. A Gen1/K9 TB (with much lower miles) for my K7 was only $85 shipped. Before I messed with the TB's for my new-to-me L4 I checked and TBs for a Gen2 were only around $160-$180 so that was my fall back plan and much cheaper than new TBs from Suzuki. That said, properly sync'd TBs is an addiction I have no intention of breaking.

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Last edited by dmfdmf; 10-09-2018 at 12:19 PM.
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post #6 of 17 Old 10-21-2018, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your responses and info. I went back in to a local dealer and explained my situation and they will take a look for me this coming week. It's a dealership that wouldn't help me before but was purchased by another dealership. Hopefully I will be back to feeling good about the bike once again. Not sure what the cost though. First world problem. You all be well. Jimi
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post #7 of 17 Old 10-21-2018, 11:56 AM
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Did the ISC sync yesterday. It seemed strange to me that the ISC seemed to act the same whether or not the diagnostic tool was set to sync mode. The adjust mode requires that the bike is at operating temperature and it was taking forever. It also acted a little strange just as it crossed the line with the temperature jumping back and forth (likely as the thermostat opened the extra cold radiator water dropped it a bunch?). Anyway, the imbalance was significant and when the test mode would autocancel itself due to engine temp being low, nothing noticeably changed. Maybe it was too far whacked out for it to compensate. I suspect that it doesn't adjust balance but only tries to correct the idle speed which was very low on my bike. Maybe it was at the edge of its adjustment there. Strange thing was that when it turned itself off and I turned it back on it didn't seem to affect anything.

Regardless the balance not only significantly off, but the natural idle was only about 800rpm. Just on the cusp of stalling out. I had to open both idle air jets to get the idle rpm up to the prescribed 1229 with a perfect vacuum balance. I don't know why they spec 1229 rpm since the numbers bounce all over and you can only estimate the average to be about where you want it... Reset the learned position and reset my throttle position sensor (which was also off).

I only had time to run around the block a few times. The low end struggle was MUCH improved; however, the engine was still partially warm so I'll have to confirm on a completely cold start.

As expected the engine vibes at rpm didn't go away. They may have shifted a little bit, but I'll have to get on the freeway to know if anything is better up there. If the vibes moved into the 7k+ instead of the 5k+ then I'll be good. It is the speed limits of 80mph+ that put my bike right in the buzz rpms when cruising all day.

One final note... I've never heard of a new bike having as much trouble as yours (especially the burned valves), but I will say that all of these factory adjustments on mine have been way out of whack. All the exhaust valves had the same size shim in them as did all of the intake valves. Maybe that is normal mass production technique but it seems that they just loaded them in based on design tolerances and never actually measured them. The odds that they all turned out exactly the same based on actual measurements seems to be pretty low.

The throttle cables were completely wrong too. I thought I would have to adjust the cables at the throttle bodies to be out of spec to get the upper adjuster back in the middle instead of with only one or two threads engaged. But when I got down in there they were nowhere near factory spec and fixed up fine following the procedure in the service manual.

And my idle circuits were not only imbalanced but very low. This may have been ordinary wear in change, but I've always experienced the cold engine, low rpm, barely cracked throttle struggle to turn its own weight phenomenon. Which I suspect was not normal despite the dealer shop's line of BS that started with "you're not warming it up long enough" and headed towards its normal and ended with me never going back there for service.

The bike has been great despite needing the tweaks mentioned above, so hopefully your new dealer experience will turn out for the best and you'll be able to enjoy your bike for many years to come.
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-21-2018, 12:07 PM
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My only problem with waiting forever for the engine to reach temperature was the fact that it had to run with the air box removed to retain access to the adjuster screws. I might see about getting some short stack filters for each throttle body for the next adjustment. (I suppose I could set the air box and tank to run it to temp, then remove the tank and airbox and replace the tank to run it for the adjustment.)

I am not in a naturally dusty environment, but every time I saw a little bug flutter past it "bugged me" to think of it getting sucked in.

Also running it with the tank set in place required that I used just the screw driver bit on the rear TB and a long skinny screwdriver on the front TB entering above the triple clamp. Still had a helper lift the rear of the tank above its own holding block (tank clamp turned sideways) height for the rear adjustments so my fat hand wouldn't rest on the very hot valve cover. A heat resistant glove would have worked if you don't have a helper...

Final vacuum balance at idle attached...
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Last edited by Grimmer; 10-21-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-21-2018, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmer View Post
One final note... I've never heard of a new bike having as much trouble as yours (especially the burned valves), but I will say that all of these factory adjustments on mine have been way out of whack. All the exhaust valves had the same size shim in them as did all of the intake valves. Maybe that is normal mass production technique but it seems that they just loaded them in based on design tolerances and never actually measured them. The odds that they all turned out exactly the same based on actual measurements seems to be pretty low.
Thanks for the update. It does seem Suzuki is getting sloppier on how motorcycles are shipped from the factory. I have a Gen2 Wee and the secondary throttle plates were visibly out of sync. I also found the front, lower TB boot completely loose (most likely delivered like that) which fixed a vibration at 5200RPM once I tightened it.

The motor is still more viby than I like, most noticeable at higher RPMs now so I am still working on finding that cause. My Gen1 Wee ran smooth as silk all the way to redline.

I did a secondary and primary throttle position sensor calibration and a crude idle-air sync (I don't have the SDS or Healtech to do it right) yesterday. I never adjusted those after resync'ing the secondary throttle plates and it ran okay but was little lopey at idle and so I am taking it for a test spin today to see if it is improved.

I may have to check my valve clearances next because maybe they are out of whack and a source of some of the vibes.

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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Next Up: ?
Past: Suzuki: DL650AK7, GS400; Honda: CB125, Express 49cc
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-21-2018, 04:50 PM
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I am by no means an expert, but having fiddled with my idle jets I think that the SDS induced adjustment mode is likely only locking out the idle speed correction. You should be able to balance the two idle circuits just fine without the SDS. The only question would become how much stroke the ISC has for correcting the idle speed back to the target under varying altitudes and environmental conditions.

When I set mine I opened the rear about 1/8 turn to correct about 10+ inches of imbalance. However, the idle was still down around 800rpm. I opened the front maybe 3/4 turn or more to get it up in the correct neighborhood, then also opened the rear and twittled them both here and there (always going open for more idle speed).

I suppose that without the ISC locked out it would be possible to overshoot the idle rpm and have the ECU close down the ISC to compensate. Even if it isn't set dead center, so long as there is some "stroke" in the system you can probably make a go of it. Shoot for a balance with as little adjustment as possible if your rpm is already good. If it is too high or too low, tweak it towards correct and maybe a little extra to get the ISC system away from the edge...

Either way, you should be able to effect a balance between front and rear.

I suspect that the throttle position sensor was just as much if not the majority of the problem for my low end partial throttle woes.

And how did I miss after all this time the fact that the TPS requires a security T25..?! Cost me an extra trip to the part store in the middle of it all, which luckily had a set available.
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