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205 000 KMS today. And then...

10K views 97 replies 15 participants last post by  Rednaxs60 
#1 ·
So, the old Vee turned over 205 thousand clicks on the way home from work this afternoon, in a monsoon rain.

It is also election day in Canada, and every SOB was trying to get to the ballot box at the same time as me. What should have been a 40-minute ride ended up double that. It took me a good 25 minutes sitting in the downpour just to get onto the freeway. Then there was the very new and shiny Dodge Ram that decided to head for the ditch only a few minutes from my destination. Bad day for him. That few minutes ended up in another 25 minutes in the rain watching the the fire trucks set up their perimeter.

And then it started.

The idiot style volt meter I installed on the bike eons ago turned from green to amber to red. And stayed there. I shut off my heated gear (which was hardly even on) and revved up the engine, but no change. Solid red. Discharge situation.

Luckily, things began moving and I was able to get home in a matter of minutes.

Ditched the bike, hopped in the truck, and performed my civic duty.

After returning home I began to investigate. 12.6V at rest. 14.5V at 4000 RPM. This is normal.

Then things changed. 12.4 and decreasing at revs. Down, down, down. Back into the red zone.

Shut it down. Fire it back up. Things are normal again. Can't get it to discharge.

Start monkeying with wiring connections under the seat, fuse box okay, check battery terminals (battery is not "new" and could be suspect), and discover that the heated grips are not working. This is new. They were working in the morning. Check fuses with meter - all good.

Then the grips begin heating. Then not. Something bad in that circuit. OEM grips. I did have to fix broken wires in the clutch side grip at one point many years ago. Problem could be in there.

But also, in the past couple of days, I have noticed a hint of a "metallic" sound that makes me think of the magneto. I have to check that too. I replaced the stator and reaffixed loose magnets back in 2016, about 38 000 kms ago. I fear the JB Weld may have let go, as it seems to have for some others.

The one question I have at the moment is if one can check the magnets by removing the generator plug. I'm thinking I could just stick a wire in there and drag it around the magneto and feel if anything is amiss. I'm pretty sure you can't get a visual on the magnets through that hole. I really don't want to pull the entire cover off just to find the magnets are okay.

Okay. Done venting.

The Vee has brand new shoes (Dunlops). She can't die this way but she's old, and if she's munched a magnet, that might just be the end.

And now V-Tom is going to pass me in kilometerage. I was hoping to hold him off for a few more weeks until winter holds him at bay...

The DRZ is my mount for the rest of the week. Further investigation continues this weekend.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Damnit!!!

Fix it! I don't want to pass you became you are having an issue and had to pit!

This isn't terminal. Find it and fix it please!


..Tom
 
#5 ·
I doubt an intermittent issue could be magnets. More likely a wire or device getting wet and being unhappy about it.

..Tom
 
#6 ·
Disconnect the grips and try again. If that doesn't help, leave them disconnected and swap in another good battery.

Could a dislocated magnet allow charging at low revs, but no charging at higher revs?

Cheers,
Glenn
 
#8 ·
"performed my civic duty."

I can sympathize with the electrical problem but I did solve the voting conundrum. Absentee ballot. I get my vote in the mail and have voted before the polls have opened.
It's like going to Mass on Saturday night so you can sleep in on Sunday! 0:)
 
#9 ·
Yeah, normally I vote in the advance polls, but not this time. I didn't make up my mind who to vote for until all the evidence was in. Was a bit of a conundrum this time.

Won't have time to do much to the bike until the weekend but first step is disconnect heated grips and see what happens.

I also want to open up the magneto even if just out of curiosity. I don't think that's the problem (shouldn't ever see 14.5V if the magnets are shifted) but I am a little concerned about that new metallic sound that cropped up a few days ago. Of course, maybe it's been there for a long time and I only noticed because I was riding without earplugs (unusual for me) while scrubbing in new tires. It's at a specific rpm, so probably just something harmonic anyhow.

If not solved then, I guess the battery gets load tested. I believe I replaced the battery in 2016 when the stator went kaput, so not terribly old. Don't think it's the source.

My money is on a bad connection somewhere. I don't think it is rain related, just a coincidence. This bike has seen a LOT of wet weather and never done anything like this before.

Anyhow, it will all be documented for the entertainment of the masses. I'm sure there are a few out there who would like to know how the JB Weld has held up.
 
#10 ·
If it makes you feel better I had to replace the battery on mine a week ago (203,087 km) It has a couple of dead battery in the morning's but I was able to keep riding until I could get a battery (a long weekend interfered with getting the battery sooner.)

Hard to believe with only 203,000 km and only 4 and a quarter years old it would already need a new battery! (I'm at about 204,580 km right now.)

..Tom
 
#15 ·
So, the old Vee turned over 205 thousand clicks on the way home from work this afternoon, in a monsoon rain.

And now V-Tom is going to pass me in kilometerage. I was hoping to hold him off for a few more weeks until winter holds him at bay...

...
BTW congrats on 205,000 km!

I am sure it won't happen this year but last year in Southern Ontario was largely free of snow and ice (on the roads) until the new year.

..Tom
 
#16 ·
Checked voltage this evening before firing it up: 12.65V. Fired it up: 14.65V at idle.

At 3000 RPM, voltage drops to 13.5V

Seemed consistent for several minutes, almost decided to take it for a spin.

Turned on heated grips, they got hot. Then the voltage began to drop down to barely 12V. Grips went cold. Shut it down.

Pulled off the crash bars, plastics, and tank. I want to trace a few wires besides the grips, like accessory port, volt meter and so forth.

That's as far as I got today. It will have to sit and wait until at least Friday now.
 
#27 ·
Turned on heated grips, they got hot. Then the voltage began to drop down to barely 12V. Grips went cold. Shut it down.
What kind of heated grips do you have? The better ones have battery drain protection, so they shut themselves down once the voltage gets below a certain minimum. This prevents a complete battery drain if they're wired directly to the battery (not on a switched circuit) and you forgot to switch off the grips when shutting off the bike.

The cheaper heated grips might not have this protection so they should be wired to a switched circuit. Otherwise it's just a drained battery waiting to happen.
 
#17 ·
I would do a stator AC Volt test on it once it is hot/voltage drops.

Not sure a bad wire will cause the voltage drop. That acts like a stator.

Heated grip wiring issue may not be related?
 
#20 ·
Yeah. I hope it's not the stator. That stator (OEM) is only 3 years old. If it's toast, I don't know if I want to invest in another but I guess I'd have to if I want to sell the bike as a runner. For sure though the goofy heated grip behaviour began at precisely the same time the charging problem occurred. There must be a connection.

Planning to hit the dealership on the way home on Friday. Have a look at a 2018. Wife has granted permission, but first I want to try to resurrect the beast.

In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out the best way to lug hockey gear on a DRZ. See how it goes tomorrow.
 
#21 ·
Good luck and please get it going!

If things go smoothly I'll be over 205,000 km tomorrow.

..Tom
 
#22 ·
Test results:

Regulator/rectifier diode tests all good. Nothing wrong with regulator/rectifier.

Stator resistance checks out fine.

Stator no-load performance not so much: two combinations of the three pins show 78 and 76 volts between them (spec is 75+ @5000rpm), but the third combination only generates 15V.

Stator is kaput.

Another interesting tidbit: The stator that died on me 3 years ago failed the resistance test on all three wires. Totally different sort of failure than this one.

Now, here's the question: Where does a guy get a stator rewound? (Looking local, not in US).

Still haven't opened it up to look at the flywheel magnets. Update on that coming...
 
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#23 ·
There has been a lot of speculation as to the reasons for a stator failure, apart from a badly manufactured component. Strange how some Vee owners never had a stator related problem, while others are unfortunate. One of the thoughts was the failure may be related to excessive stator heat. Perhaps low oil level? What are your thoughts or practical experience to help prevent stator failure?
 
#25 ·
I've heard not-so-good stories about Electrosport and Rick's aftermarket stators. Premature failure and all that. But then you could say my OEM replacement stator wasn't up to snuff either after only 3 years' service.

I'll be pricing out options and purchasing a new one tomorrow.

Drained the oil and popped the cover off when I got home from work today. Pleased to report that the magnets are all still firmly affixed and there are no signs of the JB Weld deteriorating. I noticed a blackened area on the stator where the harness wires attach to the windings. I imagine that is where it failed.
 
#31 ·
Well, I am now flummoxed.

I've replaced the stator with one from Electrosport and the bike still will not charge properly.

I've tested out the stator and it looks fine. It actually puts out more voltage than the OEM spec (95V @ 5000rpm vs 75+V @ 5000rpm). Its coil resistance is slightly higher than OEM specs as well (.6 Ohms vs .2-.5 Ohms). Dunno if that's a problem or not.

I checked out the regulator/rectifier again and it tests within specs for all figures laid out in the service manual, same as when I tested it a couple weeks ago. Is it possible for a R/R to be bad regardless of passing diode testing? It sure gets hot, so it must be doing something.

I've disconnected the heated grips and everything else on the bike (powerlet, heated gear harness/controller, horn relay, headlight relay, volt meter, fuse block). Makes no difference other than decreased headlight load which, being LED, isn't much anyway. Even with all that disconnected, the charging voltage across the battery is still under 13V. It does increase slightly with rpm, but nothing like it should.

Think I mentioned it earlier as well but I had the battery load tested and it is still putting out over 300 cold cranking amps, so battery is fine.

So, I'd be glad to hear any informed opinions on the matter before I purchase a new R/R which is all I can think to do.

(also attached a pic of magnets for anyone interested to see what they look like 3 years after being JB Welded back on)
 

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#32 ·
Have been monitoring your thread and you're correct, something is amiss. The stator output will always be at max for the RPM of the engine, and is supposed to be at a max output at 5000 RPM. Your numbers are high for the stator assembly, but the RR should be able to manage it. The RR keeps the electrical system voltage at a predetermined set point of approximately 14.2 VDC. This is of course engine speed dependent, the lower the engine speed, the lower the voltage can drop. I will mention that it is never good to have an electrical component too far out of spec, can affect the electrical system and charging components.

The battery serves three functions. First is to provide starting power. Second is to absorb voltage spikes in the electrical system to protect the system. Third is to provide augment power when the alternator (rotor/stator and RR) does not provide sufficient power to the electrical system. A bad battery can cause an issue with the electrical charging system, but your battery appears to be good because of load testing.

The RR is a shunt regulator that is connected in parallel to the power flow and taps into the electrical system to determine the electrical system voltage level. If the voltage level goes above the set point of the RR, the RR shunts more power to ground, conversely, if the voltage level goes down the RR shunts less power to ground.

So from what you have mentioned, the RR is not doing the job required. Even though the RR specs are good, the comparator circuit, compares the electrical system voltage to the RR set point could be faulty.

My vote is that you have a faulty RR. Before you buy one have sent a PM.

Cheers.
 
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#35 ·
I'm over 207,000 km but we are in the middle of getting quite a bit of snow. Won't likely be able to ride for probably several days.

..Tom
 
#39 ·
Thank you very much to Rednaxs60. He is shipping a spare R/R over to the mainland for me to try out. At the very least, it will allow me to confirm/eliminate the R/R as a problem.

If the problem is not the R/R, I can't imagine where else to look other than burnt harness and I see no evidence of that anywhere.

Here's hoping the solution is a simple one. Otherwise, this bike is not long for the world I'm afraid. :crying2:
 
#40 ·
Okay, I've got the R/R that Rednaxs60 kindly sent my way.

Now I have to figure out how to wire it.

The outgoing R/R has 7 wires (3 black wires go to the stator in a 3-pin connector and the other four are bundled together in a 4-pin connector).

The Shindengen FA574A (off a Goldwing) I'm playing around with has 8 wires instead of 7. The stator wires are straightforward, but the remaining 5 wires I have yet to figure out.

As far as I can tell, the two green wires from the Shindengen will connect to the black/white wires on the Vee. And the red wires from the Shindengen will go to the red and red/white wires on the Vee. That takes care of the 4-pin connector, although I'm not sure what the difference is between the solid red wire and red/white wire on the Vee's harness. I suspect it doesn't matter which red wire from the Shindengen goes to which red or red/white on the Vee. (The only schematic I have is for a 2003 Vee which has a different pin configuration and wiring from the R/R. It shows a solid red going to the ignition and fuse box. There is no red/white wire in the schematic.)

So, this leaves me with a single unused black wire from the Shindengen. I am thinking this is a "monitor" wire that should go to the negative side of the battery.

Any thoughts on the matter from someone with more experience than me? (which is pretty much zilch when it comes to regulator/rectifiers).
 
#41 ·
Okay, I've got the R/R that Rednaxs60 kindly sent my way.

Now I have to figure out how to wire it.

The outgoing R/R has 7 wires (3 black wires go to the stator in a 3-pin connector and the other four are bundled together in a 4-pin connector).

The Shindengen FA574A (off a Goldwing) I'm playing around with has 8 wires instead of 7. The stator wires are straightforward, but the remaining 5 wires I have yet to figure out.

As far as I can tell, the two green wires from the Shindengen will connect to the black/white wires on the Vee. And the red wires from the Shindengen will go to the red and red/white wires on the Vee. That takes care of the 4-pin connector, although I'm not sure what the difference is between the solid red wire and red/white wire on the Vee's harness. I suspect it doesn't matter which red wire from the Shindengen goes to which red or red/white on the Vee. (The only schematic I have is for a 2003 Vee which has a different pin configuration and wiring from the R/R. It shows a solid red going to the ignition and fuse box. There is no red/white wire in the schematic.)

So, this leaves me with a single unused black wire from the Shindengen. I am thinking this is a "monitor" wire that should go to the negative side of the battery.

Any thoughts on the matter from someone with more experience than me? (which is pretty much zilch when it comes to regulator/rectifiers).
No, I wouldn't do that just yet. Historically, Honda bike's negative wires are Green. Black is positive. In your situation now, hold off. What year Goldwing is the R/R off?

Cheers,
Glenn
 
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