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Quiet & Smooth At Last

7K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  FredRider 
#1 ·
Prior to 14,000 miles ago, I have used two TrailWings and two BattleWings on the front of my Wee. All four of those tires have lasted about 13,000 miles. So I tried something different, a Shinko 705 TrailMaster tire. I have to commend Shinko. The TrailMaster never slipped on wet or dry roads. It was very reassuring to ride with that tire on the front, but boy did it howl. When it was new, it would howl between 43 & 51 mph. After it cupped badly, as shown below, it would howl so loudly at highway speeds (55-75 mph), I could barely hear my wife through my Scala G9x helmet headset, plus depending on the road surface the 705 front TrailMaster could howl at speeds as low as 25 mph. Despite the sure-footedness of the Shinko 60/40 tire, I am so happy to have replaced it with another 110/80R-19 BattleWing BW501 tire. Now my Wee is running quietly and smoothly again.

 
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#3 ·
The tire was mounted and balanced correctly. I do not know if the cupping has anything to do with the kind of roads I ride on, or how many tight curves I take, but besides the noise, the rough vibrations felt at low speeds as bumpiness and at higher speeds as vibration through the handlebars was off-putting.

What experiences do others have? No cupping? How long do others running 705's last?

I did only have a Shinko tire on the front. I still had a 150/70R-17 BattleWing BW502 on the back. Perhaps the combination of the Shinko 60/40 tire on the front and the BW 90/10 tire on the back is not a good one.
 
#5 ·
Have about 9k miles on a shinko 705 front (just broke in the second rear). It's got a little low speed rumble that i can feel in the bars, about 5 or less mph. Nice howl, not loud, mid 30s mph. Might be starting to cup a little bit, but not enough to know without measuring and I can't be bothered [emoji12]

Happy with the tires.
 
#9 ·
I have always been diligent about keeping the front tire air pressure between 32 psi and 36 psi, that is, until this summer I suffered a lapse of attention and the front tire pressure was 27 psi when I checked it after 2 or 3 months from last I filled it to 36 psi. Perhaps the cupping was the result of running for a month or more with that lower tire pressure. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
#22 ·
Well it's known that a tire will last longer with a higher psi, but you also compromise traction. You have to find that happy medium.
We all know that statement is not true for auto tires. Over inflation not only compromises handling and risks exceeding the tire manufacturer's load limit, it tends to wear out the center tread resulting in tires wearing out prematurely. Personally, I have not seen any difference in motorcycle tire life with motorcycle tires inflated to 33 psi vs. 36 psi vs. 38 psi vs. 40 psi. Anybody got any data to the contrary?

Motorcycle Superstore seems to think motorcycle tires wear like car tires. "When your tires are over inflates the middles section tends to wear faster than the sides of the section." Motorcycle Tire Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know! - Motorcycle Superstore

Canyon Chasers has this to say about that - "Many riders still believe that running the max psi number listed on the sidewall will ensure you'll get the maximum life out of your tire. But as tire's have evolved this is no longer the case. Running max-pressure, or too high pressures can actually cause the tire to wear out faster. Yes, you read right; keeping pressure higher will actually make the tire wear out quicker. When a tire is over-inflated (and by over-inflated we mean, higher than the manufacturers recommendation) you make the contact patch smaller because the tire is unable to flex as much, this focuses the wear onto a smaller surface, increasing heat and wear." Motorcycle Tires Explained | Canyon Chasers Motorcycle Sport Touring

Motorcycle.com thinks - "Overinflating tires does not increase load-carrying capacity, but will result in a hard ride and accelerated tire wear in the center of the contact patch." Motorcycle Tires 101

Moto-USA gives this advice - "If for some reason your tires are losing more than two psi per month, the tire, valve, or wheel may be damaged." and unequivocally states - "Riding on tires with too much air is equally as dangerous. The tires are more likely to be cut, punctured, or broken by sudden impact. Overinflating will cause the bike to ride hard and will cause the tire to wear out quickly in the center of the contact patch." Motorcycle Tires Product Guide - Motorcycle USA

Someone with lots of experience - T.J.Tennent/Engineering Manager, Firestone Consumer Products, Government Products, Bridgestone Motorcycle Karting Products. An avid long-time motorcycle rider, Tennent in his spare time is also an instructor for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation and is Chairman of the Tire Rim Association, Motorcycle Sub-Committee, which decides specifications for bike wheels, tires and tubes that are sold here in the U.S. "Tennent also advises that a rider should run their tire pressures between one and two psi above the manufacturer’s recommendation. That way you take into account any changes in weather (heat and cold can affect pressures). But also if you are only going to do the bare minimum and check them just once a month, it will compensate for that too, as on average tires will lose one psi every four weeks under normal riding conditions. https://rideapart.com/articles/the-dos-and-donts-of-motorcycle-tires

Dunlop's statement on cupping - "there are steps that can be taken to minimize cupping and uneven wear on a motorcycle: Maintain your motorcycle and particularly your front and suspension. Avoid hard braking whenever possible. Braking causes the tire to grab and wear in one direction. When braking is applied to the front tire, the load transfer over-flexes the tire and increases the tendency for cupping and uneven wear. Maintain your tire pressures. Under inflation and overloading of motorcycle tires are significant causes of cupping and uneven wear, particularly in association with hard braking and/or trailer use." FAQ | Dunlop Motorcycle
 
#17 ·
Normal rule of thumb for vehicles that aren't load carriers (read: trucks) is to check tire pressure once per week, with a daily visual inspection. I've just finished my motorcycle safety course this summer, and they reviewed TCLOCK pre-ride checks. When asked about pressure, rather than just visual inspection, they also said "about once a week".

Your mileage may vary. Your risk tolerance may vary. If you're doing a lot of miles carrying a large amount of stuff - your pressure is going to vary. If I was travelling more than 150-200 miles a day, yup, I'd check the next time I rode. A 10 mile commute plus some pleasure rides in a week? Yeah, rolling out towards breakfast saturday morning.

That may be cavalier to some, and overly cautious to others. That said, it's a good habit to get into.
 
#19 ·
I've had mild cupping on the 705 fronts, but I'm hard on tires and run varied pressures (when running dual sport mixes of gravel & pavement), so I expect hard wear. I generally get 10-13k before they're shot.

I love the tires, they're noisy but ear plugs solves that.
 
#20 ·
Quiet and Smooth, used in the same sentence as Shinko 705 front tire?
I just checked the mileage on the 705's and they're at about 6K and that front tire hardly looks like it has worn at all. I was hoping it was about worn out so I could replace that howlin thing. Guess ear plugs with ear buds are what I'll keep going with.
BTW, the back has 3K or so miles to to go it looks like.
 
#21 ·
My ride is quiet and smooth at last because I replaced the howling monster Shinko 705 front tire with a BW501. I waited 13,907 miles to replace my 705 before I could not stand it anymore. It still had a few thousand miles of tread left, and still hugged the road just fine wet or dry.
 
#24 ·
I agree with Swingset. My experience conflicts with the opinions of the quoted publications. Higher air pressures combat heat build up. Excessive heat causes accelerated wear.
Perhaps these people are talking about "pressures higher than the tyre manufacturers recommended maximum" where I am talking about higher than the bike manufacturers recommended maximum.
In road racing if you are not getting grip and the tyre's surface is clean you reduce the pressure which allows the tyre to warm up, which softens the rubber allowing it to grip more. If the tyre is overheating the tyre surface will "pill up" with balls of rubber indicating overheating and excessive wear. The aim is for moderate "pilling" which gives maximum grip without excessive wear.
Applied to the road this means that the hotter your tyres run the greater the grip and wear, and the idea that an overloaded bike should run the same pressures as rider only bike is in my opinion plain dumb as the tyre will be distorted and at speed not present the recommended contact patch to the road, causing stability issues.
Also somebody should tell the Motorcycle Superstore that the design and application of car and bike tyres are completely different and therefore cannot be compared.
 
#28 ·
Of some concern is that his front tire wear was off-center. Recommend checking the REAR wheel slignment. You could be compensating with a slight turn going on all the time just to go straight if the rear tire is slightly crooked. also, in my opinion, heavy braking would would affect cupping. Likely at the leading edge of the tread blocks. Re tire pressure: At the track, they recommend lower pressures, like around 30-32 psi on my Vee and it handled great. For roads, with normal hazards, more pressure is a good idea because you don't want to pinch the tire against the rim if you find a pot hole or limb in the road at speed. More pressure is normal recommended pressure.
 
#29 ·
I have always worn out my front BattleWings and TrailWings left of center, about 1", with 1" right of center not far behind. I always figured that not wearing out the center tread and wearing out the off-center tread first was due to riding through lots of tight turns on mountain roads, near where I live. However, I have never checked the alignment of my Wee, other than to make sure the rear wheel is aligned via the chain adjusters on each side of the swing arm. What is the recommended procedure for alignment of the front wheel relative to the rear wheel?
 
#30 ·
How To Check Front and Rear Motorcycle Wheel Alignment | MC GARAGE Tech Tips or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1hgZ1eLmPE Some people prefer to run a string line parallel to the edges of the rear tyre and see how the line relates to the front wheel where others prefer to wrap the string line around the front wheel and get down on your stomach and sight down the string line from behind the rear of the bike.
The aim is to ensure that the rear wheel points directly at the front wheel. You cannot rely on the swingarm indicator marks to be accurate.
 
#32 ·
Thanks Brockie. I'll have to give that a try when I get a chance.

I am able to align my wife's Can-Am Spyder's drive belt by jacking up the swing arm, starting the engine, and letting it "idle" in first gear while turning the rear axle alignment screws until the inner edge of the drive belt has an even credit card width or two of gap relative to the inner sprocket flange. That procedure is slick and accurate.
 
#35 ·
Maybe, maybe not - I am out-of-town and have not had a chance to check the alignment yet. I suspect it is not too far off. The original chain lasted 41k miles. When I replaced the chain, I also replaced the front sprocket. The rear sprocket almost looked new. There were no shiny spots on the side of the rear sprocket and it was not hooked as far as I could tell with the naked eye. That is still the way it is with the original rear sprocket at 66k miles. I do intend to check the alignment when I get a chance.
 
#37 ·
The something else is lots of tight turns. I live in motorcycle heaven where within a 50 mile radius of my house there are more than a dozen severely twisted roads, a couple of which make the Tail of the Dragon look tame. There are many dozens of roads with tight turns within a hundred mile radius of my house. I love riding those roads, even if some of them are rough and chew up tires much faster than smooth roads. For the last decade and a half, with 3 different motorcycles and lots of adventure-touring, sport-touring and cruiser tires from several manufacturers, my front tires always wear most 1" left of center with 1" right of center not far behind. I always have plenty of center tread left when the front tires no longer are safe to ride on.
 
#38 ·
That's a completely normal and expected wear pattern on a knobby (knobbish? Semi-knobby?) tire. Dey all do dat, although it is a little shocking if you're used to pure street tires.



Also, it looks like another round of repeating ancient myths and crusty olde biker legends regarding off-center tire wear (why does the left side of my tire wear out first?) is warming up. Before you wander down that path, read the following -- it's a pretty thorough discussion of this almost universally misunderstood phenomenon.
Motorcycle Tire Wear
No, it's not road crown...
 
#39 · (Edited)
That's a completely normal and expected wear pattern on a knobby (knobbish? Semi-knobby?) tire. Dey all do dat, although it is a little shocking if you're used to pure street tires.

Also, it looks like another round of repeating ancient myths and crusty olde biker legends regarding off-center tire wear (why does the left side of my tire wear out first?) is warming up. Before you wander down that path, read the following -- it's a pretty thorough discussion of this almost universally misunderstood phenomenon.
Motorcycle Tire Wear
No, it's not road crown...
Thanks for letting me know all knobby/semi-knobby tires cup. Perhaps, my front 705 occurred to a greater degree because I ran the tire underinflated for 2-3 months.

I had already been aware that road crowning was not the cause of left-side wear, but thanks for the comprehensive report on "most common lean angle", etc. That is a great reference document.
 
#40 ·
It is amazing how quickly tires can wear out off-center when one long bend is a significant fraction of your commute. I used to run Dunlop D206F cruiser tires on the front of my 1998 Honda Shadow ACE Tourer (a factory bagger). At the time (circa 2006-2009), my commute was 4.75 miles and included a 0.7 curve around the old Charlotte Knights AAA baseball stadium, then located in an industrial park in Fort Mill, SC. That 0.7 mile curve was fun to take at 55-65 mph, but its relatively rough surface chewed up my front tire 1" left of center in about 6600 miles. Before I worked there, several of those same Dunlop D206F tires lasted between 13,500 miles and 15,500 miles. I typically try to stay off the worst of the tire-eating roads, but some roads are just too much fun to ride, even if they do have a tendency to severely shorten tire life.
 
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