A Skill & a Habit to make you live..... - Page 3 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
Riding Proficiency Tips and suggestions for improving the rider's safety skills and riding techniques

 42Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 51 Old 08-26-2016, 03:59 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 537
IMHO, the knowledge of countersteering is more important than "proper" braking

IBA#9560
OydnaR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 51 Old 08-26-2016, 04:16 PM
Moderator++
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evanston IL USA
Posts: 35,762
Garage
I practiced countersteering by avoiding manhole covers. Kenny Roberts thought braking is the most important survival skill and I'd agree.
V-Tom, Spec, ACKMANDO and 1 others like this.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014+ DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012+ DL650s
See http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at http://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
greywolf is offline  
post #23 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 08:59 AM
$tromtrooper
 
Motor7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 1,798
They are both important. There are times when we won't have time to brake, or if we do it won't prevent collision. In some of those circumstances counter-steering can allow the obstacle to be avoided safely. I will say that a lot of times I have had to use CS in an emergency situations, it has always been because I failed to anticipate the threat, was following too close, or....daydreaming.
Brojon likes this.

'15 DL650XT
"You do your own thing in your own time"
Motor7 is online now  
 
post #24 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 09:42 AM
Stromthusiast!
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Peoria, Illinois
Posts: 1,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
for me it is all about risk management, and that is what I preach.



Accident usually does not happen due to single cause, it is a combination of factors (weather conditions, route choice, time of the day, rider condition, speed, etc) so while you can't control some of the factors, others are in your control.



What people don't realize that even if your skills get x2 better, there are laws of physics, so when you go x2 faster you still in higher risk.



Yes habits are very important definitely the right ones, the ones which increase your survival chances.



Here is a write-up on ERC MSF class: Experienced Rider Course: Considering risk in the activity of motorcycling ? Selil

It is been many years since I've gone to one I will probably take my son there next spring.
I appreciate how the ERC breaks risk down by category. I've always thought of 3 types: rider, other vehicle, and animals. Sort of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party.

1st party risk is entirely under your control. Practice and riding very alert to obstacles such as slick pavement will reduce your risk. Riding flat out with no margin for surprises increases it. You get to decide.

2nd party is unpredictable. You can reduce risk by avoiding traffic and choosing routes with fewer intersections. Other than that, 2nd party risk control comes down to alertness and riding with big gaps around you. Someone here called it a bubble. There are distracted idiots everywhere! Keep your distance.

3rd party "critters" are also unpredictable but there are times and places with higher and lower risks of encountering them. Riding at dusk thru wooded areas during the deer rutting season is high risk.

All sports are risky, but ours needn't be as bad as many riders make it.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
dkayak1 is offline  
post #25 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 09:51 AM
$tromtrooper
 
V-Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 10,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kushner View Post
...
Tom also brings up the very dangerous situation where the driver realizes what they've done, unfortunately he realizes this halfway thru the maneuver and ends up stopped right in front of us! I don't claim to "know" what to do in that situation because I believe it's a judgement call we would have to make at the time of which way to go---in front of towards his rear but having the ability to brake at the bikes max is definitely going to increase your chances of avoiding anything hard!

...
I agree the emergency braking is incredibly important; I also feel that if I *have* to do full emergency braking it usually is a situation I could have avoided in the first place. That doesn't mean we can anticipate every situation as no matter how good a rider we think we are sometimes shit happens.. When it does happen there are often escape routes that we can use. It is important to be thinking in terms of "what would I do if..."


Sometimes the best thing about emergency braking is that if done properly you will retain control of your bike and that can give you extra ways to avoid a crash. If you are at highway speeds and have to brake hard you *will* have time to think about what's going on around you and you can use that time to your benefit.

We need to be aware of vehicles around us and what the drivers are likely to do (Situational awareness) so that if we do have to maneuver we can do so safely. Being able to safely brake might not be that helpful if that Semi-truck that is behind you doesn't also brake hard. And of course knowing all this doesn't help us is we don't know how to maneuver our bike quickly and safely. (ie "Laying it down" to avoid a crash isn't a good choice.) One especially good thing about having ABS is that you can do full braking and while braking be able to steer the bike to safety.

The above isn't much help it we don't ride in such a way as to maximize our escape routes. One example is on busy interstates if I am in the left lane (I usually am not) I ride very close to the right line, especially if there is a larger vehicle in front blocking vision. I do this so I can see past the vehicles ahead and look for brake lights going on and so that I have somewhere to go if cars ahead start braking heavily. (Of course if the lane beside me is going much slower you have to keep a bit of sideways distance so that you can react if someone darts out.)

I think the bottom line is learn to brake hard, keep in mind what is around you and be prepared to steer out of trouble if needed.

..Tom

2006 DL650: 202,000 km 125,500 miles,
2012 DL650 139,500+ km, 86,700+ miles. Sold.
2015 DL1000 New July 2015 70,000+ km, 43,500+ miles


This can help preventing from cars pulling out in front of you (SMIDSY)
SMIDSY detailed report.
V-Tom is offline  
post #26 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 12:03 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
cyclopathic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkayak1 View Post
2nd party is unpredictable. You can reduce risk by avoiding traffic and choosing routes with fewer intersections. Other than that, 2nd party risk control comes down to alertness and riding with big gaps around you. Someone here called it a bubble. There are distracted idiots everywhere! Keep your distance.

3rd party "critters" are also unpredictable but there are times and places with higher and lower risks of encountering them. Riding at dusk thru wooded areas during the deer rutting season is high risk.

All sports are risky, but ours needn't be as bad as many riders may
I somewhat agree and disagree on these statements, so here's an alternative point of view.

#2 as someone with 20+ years of experience commuting in worse gridlock in the country and clocking 500 commuter miles a week I can say that 80-90℅ of drivers are predictable, and those who are not or just plain f-ing crazy are usually easy enough to put the distance from. What usually gets you that they don't see you, and you need to assume that they won't. So if I am coming by the car which has a chance to change into my lane, I give it no chance. I position bike on outside and cover horn button. Have headlight modulator and airhorns, last time I used it dude sh!t in his pants and jumped to the shoulder; thought 18-wheeler coming through.

There's also a body language, they hit the brakes and cage becomes twitchy when someone is looking at the mirror.

And you usually have a choice of the route to minimize risks.

With regards to #3 I would not classify it as animals, just external conditions. Rain, gravel, leaves, falling rocks and trees are all there along with animals. And even with animals they have specific feed times, so they are not out 24hr. And they're more likely to be in some spots than others. So while it is never 100℅ in your control it is never 100℅ out of your control either.

So being at 2am on Pennsylvania turnpike with construction in heavy downpour on bold tires, 2up loaded is not wise choice; I am glad I lived to tell the story.

Visited provinces:

Visited states:
Motor7 likes this.
cyclopathic is offline  
post #27 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 04:22 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
broc11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 128
Great post, I have practiced braking but not enough and I will practice some emergency braking soon, I try and read the road and traffic and drive and ride so as to avoid a lot of acceleration and braking I see lots of drivers at, I try to ride my own pace but I'm lucky here because there isn't much traffic on the roads, it's motorcycle heaven most of the time here, granted we don't get a lot of hot weather but to me that's a bonus cause I would find it tough to wear full gear in very warm weather, don't know how you guys can do it.
As regards the weave, I have tried that, usually now if I see a car sitting at a junction I flick on the high beams,with 10 watt led spots on the crash bars wired to work with the high beam I think it makes the bike stand out a bit more hopefully, luckily so far no one has pulled out in front of me, touch wood, but I know all it takes is one dopey or maybe even hungover driver to destroy that record.
broc11 is offline  
post #28 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 05:03 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Brojon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Great State of Texas
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrarider View Post
I thought I was the only one who weaved! Thanks for the inspiration... I'll be heading to the parking lot to work more on my braking.
Nope - it's been known for as long as I've been riding that weaving in your lane - aka "owning it" - is a very very good way to register on cager radar. It also makes the side lanes register your presence which helps keep them from trying to borrow real estate you occupy.

I agree with the braking practice. I will also confess to being a wuss and not pushing my luck on sandy roads - we have more than a few here and I simply treat them all like its wet and slow down. Could I learn to go faster? Prolly - but I'd just rather practice being safe. I do practice braking "balance" I use the brakes proportionally then taper off on the rear so I stop with no dip. I practice stopping and going without putting feet down - excellent balance and steering practice.

Speaking of safe - anyone who gets caught out by a sudden lane change and a surprise panic stop in front has not been practicing the fundamental safety rule of scanning ahead at least 10 seconds, behind and to the side. I will move over towards the shoulder to scan ahead if I can't see through a truck or whatnot. It's what's kept me alive all these years - spot potential and actual trouble before it becomes an immediate concern.
V-Tom, Sierrarider and broc11 like this.

"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."
George Orwell

2015 DL650
Brojon is offline  
post #29 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 05:08 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Brojon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Great State of Texas
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Tom View Post
One especially good thing about having ABS is that you can do full braking and while braking be able to steer the bike to safety.

..Tom
One of my first experiments with the ABS (not having had ABS on any other bike) was to stomp on the rear brake alone - not such a good idea. Works pretty good if you're using the brakes as intended.

"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."
George Orwell

2015 DL650
Brojon is offline  
post #30 of 51 Old 08-27-2016, 05:45 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 442
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojon View Post
One of my first experiments with the ABS (not having had ABS on any other bike) was to stomp on the rear brake alone - not such a good idea. Works pretty good if you're using the brakes as intended.
Why was that not a good idea? I did the same thing and it behaved better than I expected. So then I took off to some good dirt and practiced hitting the front and rears.
V-Tom likes this.

2014 DL1000 Khaki
IDRIDR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome