Advice on riding - Page 2 - Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums
Riding Proficiency Tips and suggestions for improving the rider's safety skills and riding techniques

 18Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 28 Old 10-17-2015, 07:21 PM
$tromtrooper
 
Macdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ontario Canada/Cairns Aus
Posts: 1,989
I have one kvetch.

Quote:
Do not look down. You will go where you're looking.
When coming up to a stop sign especially on cambered surfaces.
Look down just as you come to a stop and concentrate on keeping wheel straight and braking smooth.
THEN look for cross traffic.
Trying to do both at once often results in a turned front wheel and/or jerky stops. Once the bike is stable and stopped....then gauge the traffic

( yeah yeah we all do rolling stops ). This is especially critical where the bike is tall for the rider and even more so with luggage.
Concentrate on the smooth stop and straight front wheel..then concentrate on traffic.

I have to be very cautious of this when I'm tired on the Strom. The lower CBF1000 is forgiving....a loaded Strom not so much.

Indeed you do tend to go where you are looking and if you watch cross traffic you end with a turned front wheel and a recipe for a tip over.


Ontario Canada rider staying in Cairns Australian for 3 months each year Jan to April.
Australia> 04 KLR650 93 ST1100 sold Canada > 09 Burgman Exec sold 10 NT700v sold 10 Wee ABS 2009 CBF1000
Travel photos> https://picasaweb.google.com/113408714888195024530
Macdoc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 28 Old 10-17-2015, 08:37 PM
Moderator++
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evanston IL USA
Posts: 35,354
Garage
You don't need to look down when stopping. Look at the horizon or where it would be if a structure or foliage is in the way. Your peripheral vision can handle where you stop. The bike will be much steadier with eyes ahead.
PcolaDennis and kd70qc like this.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014+ DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012+ DL650s
See http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at http://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
greywolf is online now  
post #13 of 28 Old 10-18-2015, 01:12 AM
$tromtrooper
 
Macdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ontario Canada/Cairns Aus
Posts: 1,989
Been around the block for a while GW
...on a cambered surface - you need to see - it's only just at stop point a couple of seconds at most....it also counters the tendency to look at traffic before the the stop occurs.

Horizon is fine for smooth surfaces tho many will tend to track traffic so not look straight ahead
...not so useful on multiple camber. IMNSHO


Ontario Canada rider staying in Cairns Australian for 3 months each year Jan to April.
Australia> 04 KLR650 93 ST1100 sold Canada > 09 Burgman Exec sold 10 NT700v sold 10 Wee ABS 2009 CBF1000
Travel photos> https://picasaweb.google.com/113408714888195024530

Last edited by Macdoc; 10-18-2015 at 01:19 AM.
Macdoc is offline  
 
post #14 of 28 Old 10-18-2015, 11:24 AM
Moderator++
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evanston IL USA
Posts: 35,354
Garage
I've been around a long time too. I've never had to look down at the road when coming to a stop unless there were holes or deep ruts where I wanted to stop and needed to see where to put my feet. Camber can be seen well before reaching the stop area. Newbies can get in trouble looking down so I'm against advising them to do that.
uncaged, CruisnGrrl and kd70qc like this.

Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. I didn't quite make it to 17,000 miles on the 2012 DL650A.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 DL1000s. Vee2=2014+ DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 DL650s. Glee = 2012+ DL650s
See http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-...nicknames.html

Please vote in the poll on what Strom(s) you have at http://www.stromtrooper.com/informat...-you-have.html
greywolf is online now  
post #15 of 28 Old 10-18-2015, 11:53 AM
$tromtrooper
 
VSrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia Beach, Va. USA
Posts: 1,320
Thanks for the recommended reads. They just got added to my Christmas wish list.

VSrider is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 10-18-2015, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
$tromtrooper
 
PTRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Washington, the state
Posts: 7,246
Quote:
When coming up to a stop sign especially on cambered surfaces.
Look down just as you come to a stop and concentrate on keeping wheel straight and braking smooth.
THEN look for cross traffic.
Trying to do both at once often results in a turned front wheel and/or jerky stops. Once the bike is stable and stopped....then gauge the traffic
Instruction for a beginner can be tricky. Telling them how much of an action to take can result in more of that action than one intended. And, some people seem to have tunnel vision able to think or do only one thing for what seems a long time. In general, keeping the eyes up toward the horizon is always best. Nothing wrong with using the peripheral vision, or an advance view of the stopping point shortly before arriving there, or sneaking a very quick glance down. But, how does one give a instruction to an unknown person and not have them look downward only? That is the problem with "Look down as you come to a stop." As a more advanced instruction after the person has some riding experience, yes, look down if there is oil on the pavement where you need to put a foot, or a rut in the pavement, etc. With a beginner we cannot tell them too many things; they cannot process more than one thing at a time. The straight wheel and smooth braking are probably better done with the eyes up toward the horizon. For the true beginner though, it is probably a better blanket instruction to keep the eyes up, and get the person to develop that as their automatic movement. The same thing applies to concentrating on the stop, get a foot down, then look around at traffic as you have mentioned. We're trying to build basic, reliable, automatic movements that will work in almost every situation. With some experience the rider will put the enhancements on the basic movements to cover more situations.

The brain has multiple levels. Something new has to be thought about. This processing is slow and tiring, and only one thing at a time can be thought about. There is no such thing as multi-tasking, only slicing concentration into thin slices of time, one item at a time. After a movement has been repeated several hundred times new neural connections form in the brain and these movements don't have to be actively thought about. These movements are "learned." This is faster, less tiring, and automatic. This also leaves the thinking now available for other things, perhaps new movements the next step along the process to be competent at what we're trying to do. It is harder to replace a learned incorrect movement than to learn a new movement. I've coached skiing and sliding seat rowing. Someone new to the sport is easier to coach and develop than someone who has done it wrong or a different version. A rower with a lot of dinghy rowing experience with the circular hand movement will have a harder time to learn the flat hand movement of sliding seat rowing than someone with no rowing experience. Ditto for the skier with horrible, deeply ingrained movements who now wants to learn to do it right. They'll learn, but it can be a long slog. We want new riders to learn the basics of riding with the best versions of the most fundamental movements. Bad habits are tough to break.
greywolf, V-Tom, uncaged and 3 others like this.

"Older people who are reasonable, good-tempered, and gracious will bear aging well. Those who are mean-spirited and irritable will be unhappy at every period of their lives.

"Let each of use properly whatever strengths he has and strive to use them well. If he does this, he will never find himself lacking."


Marcus Tullius Cicero
44 B.C.
PTRider is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 10-19-2015, 11:47 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
PcolaDennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Pensacola
Posts: 534
Take the motorcycle safety course.

-Then-

Ride! A lot.

Do it in as unchallenging a situations as you can, in parking lots and at low traffic times of the day, practicing the basics: stopping, going, up shifting, down shifting, panic braking, counter steering, get a little mild dirt road time so you know what crappy surfaces are like, gain strength and confidence and be humbled but not hurt badly. -Learn the mechanics of it until they are not prominent in your thoughts.

Then build your street skills, watching the drivers' eyes in the turning lane and on the side streets and their front wheels for the hint they are about to move. Learn to ride the dirty air around semis or across bridges on a windy day, and learn to actually enjoy the challenge of it. Ride in the wet, at least a little, to build your abilities, because that day it rains cats and dogs while you are in the store out of nowhere always happens someday and that is not the time to learn how.

You never stop learning, because it is great fun and danger always lurks, and after a while you experience more of those moments when the deep winding turn at speed feels exactly right and those golden moments come when the bike simply disappears from your consciousness. I tried to explain it to my beautiful bride, saying that it is the nearest thing to flying without wings. That, of course, only increased her resolve not to ride the infernal thing... (She is the brains of the family.)

Ride as much as you can and ride well and safely.

Dennis

'12 650 Adventure

Madstad 22inch Adventure windscreen & bracket
Adventuretech fork brace & mirror extenders
Enduro Guardian skid plate and radiator guard
Grab-on grips
Suzuki top box

Last edited by PcolaDennis; 10-19-2015 at 11:52 PM.
PcolaDennis is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 12-01-2015, 10:12 AM
Stromthusiast!
 
Ozarkdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ozark, Illinois
Posts: 37
When approaching curves I always look down and not so much through the curve. I learned to ride by myself and mostly ride by myself. So I taught myself wrong in the start and it is hard for me not to look at the ground in the curves. What if there is some gravel in the turn or a couple of small rocks, that's what I always think. I been doing this wrong for so long I don't think I can change! Now I just slow down for lack of ability. In a group ride I am normally at the back of the group or I ride by myself. At 62, I don't think I will ever change!
Ozarkdave is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 12-09-2015, 02:40 AM
Stromthusiast!
 
PcolaDennis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Pensacola
Posts: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarkdave View Post
When approaching curves I always look down and not so much through the curve. I learned to ride by myself and mostly ride by myself. So I taught myself wrong in the start and it is hard for me not to look at the ground in the curves. What if there is some gravel in the turn or a couple of small rocks, that's what I always think. I been doing this wrong for so long I don't think I can change! Now I just slow down for lack of ability. In a group ride I am normally at the back of the group or I ride by myself. At 62, I don't think I will ever change!
My friend, you have made it to this point in one piece (that counts as a victory) and we are all hopefully improving our skills every day that we ride. I have a couple of ideas you might try, to help to learn to look through the turns towards the exit as you ride. Give them a try, if they appeal to you and they make sense, but please do not attempt them if they make you uncomfortable. When we ride in a manner that feels unsafe, we stiffen up and that does very bad things to our ability to control the bike.

By the way, I made a turn at low speed while accelerating from a stop at a light in traffic and hit a patch of sand and gravel the other evening. It is an unnerving sensation when the back end kicks out on you in a lean, but the rules are simple: remain loose, don't hit the brakes or chop the throttle, ease off the throttle if you are accelerating, let the bike respond (as it will if you let it) -correctly, and ride it through. -Always looking where you want to go and 'down' is NOT where you want to go.

Think of it this way: You have already hit the slippery stuff, mate, now it is time to ride it through!

At high speed at deep lean angles the rules are the same but the stakes are higher, things happen faster, and it is possible that you won't be able to make the catch. Heck, even the pro racers drop their bikes sometimes. That is why we all wear our gear, right?

Now, I am not a great rider, so I am sure someone will have maybe better advice than I, but I have a couple of things to suggest to help your cornering and to increase your confidence. First, design and ride a circuit in good lighting consisting of several good but not too challenging curves that returns you to your starting point in less than 3 to 5 minutes and that has no stops in the route, if possible, or only at the start/finish line. -Riding around a block will do, if there is no stops.

While you are riding, take it easy. Examine the road, and imagine what a good safe line would look like through each of the curves. Make sure you examine the road surface and know that it is good. You should not get too into the mechanics of it, just do what you normally do and be safe in traffic if there is any.

Ride it again, feeling how the bike handles the turns and working to make your riding smooth and changing nothing in your technique. Do the same thing again. -One more time; ride it until you become almost bored with it. You should start to develop a rythmic, almost dancing sense to the ride.

Once you have that feeling, you will find yourself riding with more confidence and probably faster than you should. Watch your speed and don't get too fast. Pick the curve that you are most comfortable with and then try to look up just enough to find and drive through your turn in points and following that line you have in mind. If you become uncomfortable, change your focus to a more comfortable direction, but don't give up. There is always the next time through.

Once you are able to drive through your turning points in that turn, do the same on the next, until you feel comfortable doing this through the course. Chances are you are going to get tired pretty quickly because learning is hard work. Once you can do this with confidence, you will see the turns in a new way.

Now, you are going to try, in the easiest turn, to not ride simply through the turning points, but from point to point. Always smoothly shifting focus to the next point in transition before or right as you reach the current point. This will feel odd, and you may be a bit jerky at first. Do not be worried, frustrated, or take any chances. This should be done at relatively low speed and not in traffic in case you run wide.

You can do this in an empty parking lot that is big enough to allow you to get up to a speed sufficient for you to begin to counter steer, if you have any difficulty and feel that is best. It can be a big oval, and you can ride it in one direction only during the session, and changing to the other direction another time. Having a set course is the key, and becoming conscious of the rythm of the ride. This is the crucial element in establishing the confidence to be able to look deeper into the corners than you did previously. Just don't let yourself speed up too much or ride until you are too fatigued. If you do, all the work will become invalidated because you will start to make mistakes or enter a corner too fast and undo the good work. You can do big figure eights instead of an oval after you have mastered the technique, as this will really increase your training level and imprint the lesson.

An empty parking lot may be best, with graduation to the street only when you feel more confident. After you have practiced a while, though, you will begin to feel the fluid nature of the turns as you become more comfortable with looking for the exit. Your feel for the bike will improve, your enjoyment will increase, and so will your safety because you will be able to see all the possible hazards around you, not just those on the pavement.

Remember, too, where the eyes go, the bike goes. Looking at a gravel patch actually increases the likelihood of hitting it and you should really be looking for the route around it if there is one. This applies to almost any danger on the road.

I hope that some of that is helpful, and that you ride safely and well.

Dennis

Dennis

'12 650 Adventure

Madstad 22inch Adventure windscreen & bracket
Adventuretech fork brace & mirror extenders
Enduro Guardian skid plate and radiator guard
Grab-on grips
Suzuki top box

Last edited by PcolaDennis; 12-09-2015 at 03:47 AM.
PcolaDennis is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 12-09-2015, 12:30 PM
Stromthusiast!
 
Ozarkdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Ozark, Illinois
Posts: 37
Thank you Dennis for taking the time to write that up. I do know some curves close to work on and I'll practice there. Maybe this will help someone else also. I also looked into the advanced rider course around here. They either have no funds or not enough people signed up for it!

Dave
Ozarkdave is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Stromtrooper Forum : Suzuki V-Strom Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome