Low blood sugar from lack of Twinkies.

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Joe S.
'12 Concours
'11 DL650
'10 Tiger1050
'01 HD FXD
'09 HD XR1200
'79 BMW R100

If anybody's interested in how the US worker became a commodity forced to compete with a 3rd world labor force:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/op...ions.html?_r=0

"More than any other labor dispute of the past three decades, Reagan’s confrontation with the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization, or Patco, undermined the bargaining power of American workers and their labor unions. It also polarized our politics in ways that prevent us from addressing the root of our economic troubles: the continuing stagnation of incomes despite rising corporate profits and worker productivity."

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New Crispy Snack Cracker To Ease Crushing Pain Of Modern Life

We (Canada and the US) need a new approach to labor relations. In some of the more successful parts of Europe (Germany for example), they are also heavily unionized, but there seems to be more of a cooperative approach that benefits everyone. The employers need skilled, motivated workers who care about their jobs, and make a decent salary to live on. The employees need a company that is successful and competitive in order to be able to provide them with the jobs.

We may also need to consider being protectionist. Why should the whole developing world pull themselves up on our coattails? Let them develop their own markets, middle classes, etc, and get rid of political and social structures that prevent the advancement of their societies. Big corporations and the plutocrats who control them will sell us all down the river so long as it enriches them (at least in the short term - even they will probably regret it eventually).

Yes, the way corporations and employers in general are going in north America, I suspect we will eventually see a big upswing in unionization, and in politically populist controls on "free enterprise" and internationalization. And since there has been no change in labor relations, expect it to be a repeat of the worst excesses (on both sides - labor and management) of the past.

It's amazing how union labor can't even begin to see the big picture, the end product, the ultimate demise of American manufacturing. If you had it your way, you would be making a katrillion dollars a year with the best of the best benefit packages to boot! There is no stop to what the labor unions want. It would eventually force into action that all manufacturing to be done in third world countries. You can't see that?
If you had it your way, all profits would eventually be mandated to be distributed thru the labor force. In fact, profits is now a dirty word with labor unions. Who in the heck would want to start a business if they were forced to give it all back? Maybe you? I doubt it!
There are some ideals in this country now that if were successfully implemented by the extreme belief that expenditures should out-weigh income, and that the successful shall be punished! This ideal will cause a collapse. People can't see that?
I don't know if you have bought a new car or truck lately but eventually the only people who will be able to afford them are the people who build them. Then, at that point the car manufacturer will have to close the doors...it's fairly simple to imagine...and that is just the start.
It would be foolish to even consider a manufacturing start-up so there goes new business, not to mention the taxes and regulation fines it will be faced with. Now....let's throw in a union labor! Seriously?

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2012 DL1000 Adventure (Tinkerbell)
PC-V, TRE, CR8EIX plugs, Madstad bracket, Madstad 22" shield, Fork brace, 17/43 gearing, Airhawks, Chinese mirrors, mirror extenders, RDL.

A lot of companies will look at it that way. A union isn't always the answer but treating employees fairly is. When employees don't feel treated fairly that is what opens the door to union representation.

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Joe S.
'12 Concours
'11 DL650
'10 Tiger1050
'01 HD FXD
'09 HD XR1200
'79 BMW R100

Gosh, I think you have me pegged as some kind of union fanatic or Marxist-Leninist trying to advance some dogma.
I've worked as a union member and a non union worker.
There are good points and bad points to both positions.
I think modern companies will go to great lengths to increase profits. That includes dumping my skinny butt on the street in favour of some half starved peon in a developing nation.
There certainly is a decreasing loyalty to the employees now and a reciprocating disrespect for the employer.
You can't point to all unions and say "These guys are evil". If you look at the grim statistics for Chinese coal mining fatalities, you will see a need for some kind of worker representation.
Remember the good old days when you only had to wait until the next guy died to get a job?

Your points are old. Sorry.
It's is USA 2012 and I don't think that the arguement stands anymore for treating employees poorly. Maybe in third world countries.
If you don't like your pay then go find another job. That is what most of us have to do. If your employer looses all of his employees because of it, then that will send a message that needs to be sent.
One fact remains. If unions keep shutting down plants then there will be no jobs for you. It just sucks that my tax dollars seem to find their way into propping up the contracts the employers cant meet. Yes, that's right , I said it! GM and Chrysler should have been made to file Chapter 14 as a result of eatin alive by union labor contracts.
As far as not being treated fairly....I shed a lonely tear.

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2012 DL1000 Adventure (Tinkerbell)
PC-V, TRE, CR8EIX plugs, Madstad bracket, Madstad 22" shield, Fork brace, 17/43 gearing, Airhawks, Chinese mirrors, mirror extenders, RDL.

Guess theres not much to say to that. Sorry you have no compassion for people who are treated unfairly but I see that as your problem.
Sorry you feel as you do but I can guarantee you that people are in fact treated unfairly by employers in both union and non-union shops and very much happens in this country.
Negotiated pay is merely one aspect of contract negotiations.
For some of us we make a career decision to stay within one organization. If it happens to be a union place then contract negotiations are a simple fact of life. At a certain point, when you consider all aspects of you job, simply going and finding another job isn't quite as simple a solution as it might sound.
But then again I am, how did you put it? Part of a bunch of dang worthless union thugs? I guess I have to be because you said we all are.

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Joe S.
'12 Concours
'11 DL650
'10 Tiger1050
'01 HD FXD
'09 HD XR1200
'79 BMW R100

Hmmmm, reminds me of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

k3 vee

Please don't take it personal. If you want to defend your status then that is fine. I have the right to defend mine. If I am treated unfairly I don't go whining to my big brother telling him to go beat someone up which is essentially what happens with labor unions. If you don't get what you want then you throw a major temper tantrum, i.e. Wisconsin. Poor teachers...oops, there goes another tear!
All I can say is that one day you may find yourself needing work, any work.

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2012 DL1000 Adventure (Tinkerbell)
PC-V, TRE, CR8EIX plugs, Madstad bracket, Madstad 22" shield, Fork brace, 17/43 gearing, Airhawks, Chinese mirrors, mirror extenders, RDL.