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Should ABS be a requirement?

11K views 86 replies 34 participants last post by  richw 
#1 ·
Hi. I'm looking to buy my first bike and definitely decided on the V-Strom 650 due to the reliability, versatility, and overall performance. I've been looking for a used one to save money. My question... should I only look for a model with ABS? Those seem to be rare in my area unless I want to buy a new 2011. However, I did find a great deal on a 2007 without ABS. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
 
#3 ·
IMO, it's very important. Important enough that I only look at bikes that have it. It is somewhat like riding gear -- it's not terribly important until you need it, you'll probably need it when you least expect and then it's really nice to have and will be worth the extra that it cost.

However, you'll probably get as many varied opinions as you get responses. Sooner or later you will have to make that decision.
 
#4 ·
I may be blowing smoke but think I saw that it would be a requirement in Europe for 2013 or 14

I guess that presupposes that there will be an EU 2 years hence. In wonderful europe YOU have no inalienable rights so the government can make you do anything.

I am by nature a libertarian

There is a cost to doing these things. I am also very suspicious (tin foil hat) that the greens love to add to the price of vehicles knowing it will put off some buyers

I think it would be involved in about 1/3 of accidents keeping bike upright only. It is not a battleshield

So I am happy that you would have this option at a reasonable cost but would vote NAY on mandatory inclusion
 
#5 ·
I am by nature a libertarian
This comes as an absolute shock to me!

I don't think it should be mandatory for anyone but new riders.
Making that work might be a little tricky.
 
#7 · (Edited)
If it's your first bike, and you'll be riding in traffic, it might be a good thing to look for. A panic stop, locking up your brakes, then release, going into a high side and being thrown into oncoming traffic could make for a bad afternoon.That being said it is for now at least, a choice.

What's next, mandated air-bags?

well, they put airbags in cars, right? And the Honda Gold Wing? Seems I heard a story of some clueless legislator here in Oregon thinking seat belts on motorcycles would be a good idea. Typical case of another government bureaucrat, with no knowledge of the subject passing laws and restrictions on the rest of us. Let the rider decide. Does ABS have value, or benefit. I think so, and it will be on my next bike, but should we force everyone to pay the price? No.
 
#8 ·
I sold a good '04 wee to buy an equally good '07 ABS wee. No matter how many times I practice emergency braking (and emergency braking practice is important), the ABS system will determine the traction of that particular piece of pavement far faster than I can and limit the braking to that amount of traction.

Our all-road motorcycles do need a standard ABS switch, however, for dirt road riding. I don't want ABS on downhill dirt roads.
 
#11 ·
Since you specified that this purchase would be your first bike, I'd say that you would probably benefit from having ABS. That being said, I wouldn't pass up a great deal on a used non-ABS model, but I would then also STRONGLY urge you to take as many training/safety/MC handling classes as you can and once you have those under your belt, religiously practice panic stops in a safe enviroment like a parking lot. Maintaining control while acheiving minimum stopping distance is an art--a lifesaving art!

If you plan on riding your bike off-road or on less-than-perfect gravel/dirt roads, ABS is actually a handicap, altho the system can be bypassed with some ingenuity and mechanical apptitude.
 
#12 ·
If you plan on riding your bike off-road or on less-than-perfect gravel/dirt roads, ABS is actually a handicap
That certainly was true of the last generation of ABS on bikes. But Yamaha has moved the technology forward with the ABS on the Super Tenere. I have not yet heard of anyone reporting the ABS giving them a scare on the Tenere. It has worked way better than expected for me off pavement.

That said, no, ABS should not be a legal mandate. That would be an awful development. Personally for me it is almost mandatory for any new bike that is primarily street use.
 
#17 ·
A bike with out ABS is not unsafe exclusive to that single reason. That is your perception but that is not the truth. Does ABS help in some cases? Yes it does but you can not declare a motorcycle inherently unsafe without it. If you want laws declared based on safety and insurance claims alone you had better be prepared to park your bike. Motorcycling is unsafe compared to your car whether or not it has abs. So when the day comes the government decides to ride us of these unsafe will this bother you or will you just hand them the keys?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Just to play devil's advocate I have been riding for 45 years and have owned around thirty some bikes and have yet to own one with abs. I'm still walking (knock on wood) and have been down only twice, both times due to stupidity and young age, where I thought I was 10 feet tall and bulletproof. Both were minor, and they were 40 years ago.

I have had some panic stops in real life where I had to modulate the rear brake to keep the bike under me. It is real easy to lock brakes and lose it.

Three years ago I took a basic MSF rider course with my son to get him his license. I learned some things about slow speed maneuvering that I never knew. He, of course aced it. The point I am trying to make, is, how familiar are you to riding? Is your bike an extension of yourself when you ride it? Or are you operating a machine that you have to think about your actions every second and nothing is second nature? I rode a Suzuki 250 something or other in the course. I saw guys and one girl that I still pray for every night for their safety, just in case they are still trying to ride. They belong on those 250's unless they couldn't find anything smaller.

If you are an experienced rider you can get by pretty fairly without abs and enjoy a long time of riding. You could still benefit from it, but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker to not have it as I know the bike will be cheaper.

If you are new at this, or are uncomfortable every time you ride, then I would consider abs mandatory. It could save your life. I'll shut up now.:???:
 
#19 ·
I apologize in advance becasue I'm sure this will offend some people.

I think not wanting ABS (or going out of your way to find a bike without it) is stupid for the following reasons.
- The wee isn't a dirt bike, so any argument about how much ABS sucks in the dirt should start with a nice long examination of how much the wee sucks in the dirt or just be taken off the table.
- Since the wee is a street bike, ABS does not get in the way of anything. It is totally unnoticeable until the rider screws up; only then will the ABS make its presence known by saving the erring rider's butt.

I've looked at the arguments from both sides, and it just doesn't make any kind of sense to reject ABS. The anti-ABS position is undefensible.
 
#20 ·
The fact that Eurotrash view of their Peasants Rights etc. is almost reason to be against something by definition.

The Hidden AristocraZY know you peasants should not be running around willie nilly.

They, the left, and the greens are actively trying to shut down personal transportation so you peasants stay in your hovels and if rat experiments prove reliable slow your breeding. Increasing the price of it is another incremental step.

Once they have reduced the 2 wheel population to much smaller with high expense it will be a pen stroke to take the step that motorcycling by itself is inherently dangerous and needs to be stopped.

Dear USA noobs we are a Republic where each citizen can determine what is right for them as long as it doesn't tread on the rights of others. You have an obligation to defend the liberty of your countrymen. Almost every other country has subjects just volunteer there.

Mandatory vs freedom, vote freedom
 
#21 ·
The fact that Eurotrash view of their Peasants Rights etc. is almost reason to be against something by definition.

The Hidden AristocraZY know you peasants should not be running around willie nilly.
...
Mandatory vs freedom, vote freedom
:green_lol: :green_lol: :green_lol:

you forgot to mention Ecotaliban!
 
#22 ·
Rich the problem here is it is not the bureaucrats that are knocking off the peasants, it is the peasants that are knocking off themselves. We have grown so comfortable with the government legislating our safety we cannot wait for them to save us from ourselves. We are so comfortable we will even make the arguments that will ultimately lead to the demise of our passion (motorcycling) while on the a forum that helps us proclaim our love for it.
 
#25 ·
To the OP. I would say that depends on whether or not it is an item of importance to you. If it is then get it. If it is not then wait there are some great deals going on with non-abs wees. For me it would not make a bit of difference either way.
 
#27 ·
ABS isn't mandatory on cars in the USA, but almost all have ABS. If ABS becomes standard equipment on motorcycles like it has on cars then that will be fine with me. Off road not so much. A mandate by government, not so much. But a gradual transition to ABS then I'm good to go. Wish I had it on my 2007.

On another note, I would love to buy an electric bike or one that gets really great mileage. I want a bike that I can commute on, that gets great mileage and is as safe as possible.

To the OP, if you have to ask, then you should get ABS. Let the pros ride without.
 
#28 ·
I'll tell you what why don't we see if the free market will support ABS bikes. If it will all manufacturers will follow suit and that way we don't have to open up Pandora's box by getting the government involved.:fineprint:
 
#30 ·
I'm sure the Amish need ABS and airbags in those buggies since they have such huge insurance claims when they get into wrecks.:confused:
 
#31 ·
No, they don't need ABS and airbags due to the slow speed they ride on their buggies.
If our beloved V-Storms had 4 wheels led by a horse, and we would ride not more than 20 MPH then yes, I guess ABS and airbags would be an overkill..
But we ride on two wheels at much higher speeds.

The Amish do just die from time to time due to their stubbornness, when some 'English' car or truck runs them over, in particular with poor visibility.
 
#32 ·
If you are not an expierenced rider, then yes get abs by all means.

A very experineced rider is much more capable without abs than a new rider. A new rider will find abs very handy as will an experineced rider find abs useful if they ride a lot in the rain. Abs will bail out a new rider many times as they learn and gain valuable experience. An experienced rider might not need abs and it is even likely that an experienced rider would prefer stronger brakes and no abs (like my second bike an Aprila with Brembo brakes) to a bike with average brakes and abs - like my 07 Wee abs.

My '07 Wee is a bike with average brakes and abs. I like my abs Wee but my second bike does not have abs and I think that bike has far better brakes. My next bike most likely will not have abs and that doesn't concern me but any bike ridden a lot in the rain is better with abs.

Good luck with your new bike.
 
#38 ·
From the OP

Hi All, My apologies for starting a spirited debate on government infringement on personal rights. When I posted the question, I was not referring to a "Government" Requirement, but rather a personal one given my experience level and the benefit to cost perspective of ABS. In fact, the responses from many of you helped make my decision to wait for ABS. I don't need the bike right away (it's winter anyway) and I can be patient for the right one. My rationale is that while ABS is no way a substitute for the safety courses and huge amounts of practice, in the end, if it could save me from just one accident, I would certainly pay any difference in price. I don't take this sport lightly and want to put every odd in my favor to be safe on the road. And if that means being patient and throwing a few extra dollars at it... then that's cool.
 
#40 · (Edited)
40 posts in less than 24 hours - OP, did u ask the question to stir stromers up:mrgreen: there are literally thousands of replies to the ABS thread everywhere - maybe a new section call The ABS Debate can be set up

Some observations:

1) despite the title, the OP ask whether ABS is beneficial to him. We have no idea his riding experience, preference, and other aspects relevant to give a tailored opinion;

2) for our US audience - please, this is not a debate about individual freedom vs government regulation. Put it another way, i can also argue since it is an additional cost of purchase imposed on the owner., this is another tax levied by the government - does anyone want a new tax - got it? that this line of argument is not relevant in determination of usefulness of ABS

3) For those who frequent off road downhill loose surface trying to brake from 100mph, WTF are u doing with a vstrom- but seriously, installed a ABS instant on/off switch - VSRI site has a detail instruction and would take no more than 2 hours;

For the rest of sensible or non-experienced off road vstrom rider use your engine braking and control your decent over very loose stuff and feather your brakes to bring it to a complete stop and dont clutch in till the last moment - it works for me - if u watch the so called evidence video of one infamous GS rider getting out of control, you will see his brake lights wasnt even on ( and therefore wasnt braking at all ) until he pass the point of no return 1/2 down the steep hill. Unless u are comfortable locking and sliding a machine which weights 210kg or more that pro technique is going to make u fall and tumble down the hill -at least that GS guy made it down the hill upright.

4) pre 2012 strom's ABS is not the latest generation and cycle time is still too long and there are times its activation may not be desirable in some circumstances. - eg activates when braking hard over bump - wheel's tendency to temporarily becoming light causing ABS activation, which in turns cause unwanted unloading of the front suspension even it is for a fraction of a second. I find better damping after mods to suspension reduce the occasions and severity of this issue, but it nevertheless is an issue for pre 2012 vstroms.

5) Even the experienced pros are not always 100% - ever witnessed a GP rider locking a wheel and crashed. Now imagine you trying to be 100% on a public road where the road surface traction is not always known. Sure it's more useful to newbie so that they can practice braking as hard as possible without locking up. it's also useful to experienced riders who may very occasionally have a lapse of judgment.

6) ABS will not reduce your theoretical minimum braking distance. It's merely a tool which detects a lock up has occurred (ie, operator error)and unlocks it - nothing less and nothing more. Nothing replaces training, correct technique and experience. no one should be complacent.
---------------


In the debate of usefulness of ABS on vstrom, irrelevant arguments often cloud the real issues which should be to examine the benefits and limitation of Bosch's ABS system used in the vstrom.
 
#41 ·
"It is the humble petition of the camel, who only asks that he may put his nose into the traveler's tent. It is so pitiful, so modest, that we must needs relent and grant it."

Once you cede these decisions to others your freedom is reduced

Yes I think the OP was just asking if it should be a critical point in HIS acquisition of a Strom. If he has no dirt experience or has ridden less than 10,000 miles I would say yes.

ABS
Why do you need more than 20 HP needed to go 65 MPH ?
You need roll protection in case you fall over
You need static stability where it remains upright at all times

See how safe the government professorial dweebs could make you
 
#42 ·
I think that switchable on/off on the fly ABS should be optional

I wouldn't mind having ABS for general touring or commuting, once I get into sloppery stuff, noting as scarry as wheels rolling down a steep slope gaining speed when ya'd rather have them locked up skidding



 
#45 ·
ABS implemented in off-road bikes

The future of ABS..a fresh development, not even one month old:
Husqvarna unveil the world

"Husqvarna has just revealed the world’s first dedicated off-road ABS system at BMW’s off-road test centre in Germany.
Fitted to a Husky TE449 Enduro bike with Metzeler Karoo tyres, the system works in the same way as a ‘road ABS’ system and monitors the speed of the bike’s front and rear wheels. Unlike a conventional ABS system, the off-road one is programmed to ignore inputs from the rear that indicate the rear wheel is locked up and instead focus its data gathering on the front wheel’s inputs. Should the system spot the front wheel is locked it activates the ABS, saving a potential crash. The clever part about the off-road ABS system is that only the front brake is effected by ABS, the rear is free to skid and lock-up, something that is used in off-road riding to help turn the bike. Does it work?
While experienced off-road riders found the system was a slight hindrance on a fast motocross style track, less experienced riders reported the ABS was a great help on trails, installing a greater sense of confidence in the novice off-road rider.
At the moment Husky say the off-road ABS is simply a concept project, however if the feedback is good it may well further develop the system for mass production."

Oh, and in another article I read it says the weight is only 1.5Kg..pretty cool.
 
#46 ·
"Husqvarna has just revealed the world’s first dedicated off-road ABS system at BMW’s off-road test centre in Germany.
I can see where it might be a fun engineering exercise, but the practical use seems pointless to me. Riding a dirt bike is all about letting loose, throwing that sucker around and yes, falling down from time to time. I'm sure someone will disagree with my assessment of dirt riding, but I have no interest in having my spinning, sliding, jumping, dirt ride be sterilized by ABS.

I love ABS on the street, and I do like it on my big 600lb+ Tenere on dirt roads and other slick surfaces. But on a lightweight, truly flickable dirt bike I'll pass on that option. You're not having fun if you don't fall every once in a while.
 
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