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General V-Strom Discussion Talk about all things V-Strom not limited to just one of the above models

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  #31  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Garbage Marc View Post
I'm sure the Amish need ABS and airbags in those buggies since they have such huge insurance claims when they get into wrecks.
No, they don't need ABS and airbags due to the slow speed they ride on their buggies.
If our beloved V-Storms had 4 wheels led by a horse, and we would ride not more than 20 MPH then yes, I guess ABS and airbags would be an overkill..
But we ride on two wheels at much higher speeds.

The Amish do just die from time to time due to their stubbornness, when some 'English' car or truck runs them over, in particular with poor visibility.
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  #32  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:51 PM
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If you are not an expierenced rider, then yes get abs by all means.

A very experineced rider is much more capable without abs than a new rider. A new rider will find abs very handy as will an experineced rider find abs useful if they ride a lot in the rain. Abs will bail out a new rider many times as they learn and gain valuable experience. An experienced rider might not need abs and it is even likely that an experienced rider would prefer stronger brakes and no abs (like my second bike an Aprila with Brembo brakes) to a bike with average brakes and abs - like my 07 Wee abs.

My '07 Wee is a bike with average brakes and abs. I like my abs Wee but my second bike does not have abs and I think that bike has far better brakes. My next bike most likely will not have abs and that doesn't concern me but any bike ridden a lot in the rain is better with abs.

Good luck with your new bike.
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  #33  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cbrxxcess View Post
They are correct. I support them in the idea of it is their freedom to run the buggy with or without safety equipment in place. Just as individuals should have the choice to run with or without ABS. More then likely my next bike may have it. It would be nice that I have the choice if does or does not have it. I have been riding motorcycles for 24 years without ABS. I have not had an accident that resulted in any cost to an insurance company while on a motorcycle. Can you make the same claim? And if so, is it all attributed to the fact your motorcycle has ABS?
Before we are dragged into a "size contest" and who has the biggest (please remember I am BigMan..) let me just say that in science, in particular an empirical one that involves statistics, you cannot take a single case of even 100 cases and make an argument that the overall statistics are wrong.
Your personal micro experience is insignificant to the macro.
You do realize that your past doesn't protect you against the future, and that tomorrow or any other day you could 'join' of the statistics?
The fact that somebody lived healthy for 24 years, does not mean tomorrow he will be healthy otherwise we would all live forever.

Here are some statistics:
BMW Motorcycles First to Offer ABS as standard equipment on all 2012 Models

"A recent study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) revealed that motorcycles equipped with antilock brakes are 37 percent less likely to be involved in a fatal crash than models without ABS."

Surely, these insurance guys have no idea, right? Because otherwise why would insurance people want a device that reduces their costs? (never mind lives, they only care about $$$)
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  #34  
Old 12-11-2011, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigMan73 View Post
Before we are dragged into a "size contest" and who has the biggest (please remember I am BigMan..)
Well given your larger then life stature I will respectfully bow my way out of this conversation that has gone way off track to the OP post. My apology to the OP.
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  #35  
Old 12-11-2011, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cbrxxcess View Post
Well given your larger then life stature I will respectfully bow my way out of this conversation that has gone way off track to the OP post. My apology to the OP.
Ah...too bad.. no humor.
I was trying to show you a point (at least to convince you), and you made it personal.

So for the record:
I've been riding on and off since 1989 on some scooters and motorcycles. I've never had a major crash, but I did slide once due to braking on some 'surprise' sand that was on the road. Other then a road rash, a broken turn signal and a hurt ego, nothing serious happened. Another sliding was caused due to an oil spill on the highway. The rear wheel high sided, and ABS or not would have not helped. Road rash again - I was lucky.
No much different than you.
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  #36  
Old 12-11-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMan73 View Post
"A recent study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) revealed that motorcycles equipped with antilock brakes are 37 percent less likely to be involved in a fatal crash than models without ABS."
I would bet someone at the IIHS could give a statistic on how many of those motorcycle crashes would have resulted in no injury at all if the rider had been safely enclosed in an airbag equipped car. Allowing the government to take away your freedom of choice for your own safety may not stop where you think it should. Guard your ability to make your own decision about what's right for you.

I'm as pro-ABS for street bikes as anyone could be. But government regulation paints with a very broad brush. Forcing KTM to put ABS on their street legal EXC series would make the bike much less useful. The government doesn't care that they've just ruined a fantastically capable bike, they just know it meets some regulation.
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  #37  
Old 12-11-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt_Dad View Post
I would bet someone at the IIHS could give a statistic on how many of those motorcycle crashes would have resulted in no injury at all if the rider had been safely enclosed in an airbag equipped car. Allowing the government to take away your freedom of choice for your own safety may not stop where you think it should. Guard your ability to make your own decision about what's right for you.

I'm as pro-ABS for street bikes as anyone could be. But government regulation paints with a very broad brush. Forcing KTM to put ABS on their street legal EXC series would make the bike much less useful. The government doesn't care that they've just ruined a fantastically capable bike, they just know it meets some regulation.
+1
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  #38  
Old 12-11-2011, 10:24 PM
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Hi All, My apologies for starting a spirited debate on government infringement on personal rights. When I posted the question, I was not referring to a "Government" Requirement, but rather a personal one given my experience level and the benefit to cost perspective of ABS. In fact, the responses from many of you helped make my decision to wait for ABS. I don't need the bike right away (it's winter anyway) and I can be patient for the right one. My rationale is that while ABS is no way a substitute for the safety courses and huge amounts of practice, in the end, if it could save me from just one accident, I would certainly pay any difference in price. I don't take this sport lightly and want to put every odd in my favor to be safe on the road. And if that means being patient and throwing a few extra dollars at it... then that's cool.
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  #39  
Old 12-11-2011, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt_Dad View Post
I would bet someone at the IIHS could give a statistic on how many of those motorcycle crashes would have resulted in no injury at all if the rider had been safely enclosed in an airbag equipped car. Allowing the government to take away your freedom of choice for your own safety may not stop where you think it should. Guard your ability to make your own decision about what's right for you.

I'm as pro-ABS for street bikes as anyone could be. But government regulation paints with a very broad brush. Forcing KTM to put ABS on their street legal EXC series would make the bike much less useful. The government doesn't care that they've just ruined a fantastically capable bike, they just know it meets some regulation.
Your points are all valid ones.
For some reason, with debates on ABS/helmets and other such safety topics, the discussion moves quickly from an innocent question of the OP ("get ABS or non-ABS") into a political one (US vs. Euro, etc.)

To clarify, I am very bored with politics, and am focused mainly on the safety side. I'm not a US citizen, nor am I a European one. There are good things in every system.
The US motorcycle market (=cruisers) used to quite independent from the rest of the world (as in many other things) but today with the global village, and the European trends and vehicles mixing with the US ones (e.g adventure bikes, BMW in particular) the European decisions are going to affect the US market. 'V-Strom' is in German and was originally designed for Europe.
DL-1000 was probably discontinued because of Euro pollutions regulations.
As I see it, there are two ways to approach that - Ignore it or understand that it is going to come and accept it. Fighting it would not help, because Europeans are very regulated, and let's admit that they don't care much about the US way of thinking. They are socialist (oops I said the S word..sorry..), for better and worse.
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2011, 09:50 AM
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40 posts in less than 24 hours - OP, did u ask the question to stir stromers up there are literally thousands of replies to the ABS thread everywhere - maybe a new section call The ABS Debate can be set up

Some observations:

1) despite the title, the OP ask whether ABS is beneficial to him. We have no idea his riding experience, preference, and other aspects relevant to give a tailored opinion;

2) for our US audience - please, this is not a debate about individual freedom vs government regulation. Put it another way, i can also argue since it is an additional cost of purchase imposed on the owner., this is another tax levied by the government - does anyone want a new tax - got it? that this line of argument is not relevant in determination of usefulness of ABS

3) For those who frequent off road downhill loose surface trying to brake from 100mph, WTF are u doing with a vstrom- but seriously, installed a ABS instant on/off switch - VSRI site has a detail instruction and would take no more than 2 hours;

For the rest of sensible or non-experienced off road vstrom rider use your engine braking and control your decent over very loose stuff and feather your brakes to bring it to a complete stop and dont clutch in till the last moment - it works for me - if u watch the so called evidence video of one infamous GS rider getting out of control, you will see his brake lights wasnt even on ( and therefore wasnt braking at all ) until he pass the point of no return 1/2 down the steep hill. Unless u are comfortable locking and sliding a machine which weights 210kg or more that pro technique is going to make u fall and tumble down the hill -at least that GS guy made it down the hill upright.

4) pre 2012 strom's ABS is not the latest generation and cycle time is still too long and there are times its activation may not be desirable in some circumstances. - eg activates when braking hard over bump - wheel's tendency to temporarily becoming light causing ABS activation, which in turns cause unwanted unloading of the front suspension even it is for a fraction of a second. I find better damping after mods to suspension reduce the occasions and severity of this issue, but it nevertheless is an issue for pre 2012 vstroms.

5) Even the experienced pros are not always 100% - ever witnessed a GP rider locking a wheel and crashed. Now imagine you trying to be 100% on a public road where the road surface traction is not always known. Sure it's more useful to newbie so that they can practice braking as hard as possible without locking up. it's also useful to experienced riders who may very occasionally have a lapse of judgment.

6) ABS will not reduce your theoretical minimum braking distance. It's merely a tool which detects a lock up has occurred (ie, operator error)and unlocks it - nothing less and nothing more. Nothing replaces training, correct technique and experience. no one should be complacent.
---------------


In the debate of usefulness of ABS on vstrom, irrelevant arguments often cloud the real issues which should be to examine the benefits and limitation of Bosch's ABS system used in the vstrom.
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Last edited by AceRider; 12-12-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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