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Disappointed at Wee3

33K views 244 replies 46 participants last post by  brutalguyracing 
#1 ·
So why Suzuki didn't bother to make Wee3 a real ADV bike? I mean they could have fitted USD forks and routed front cylinder pipe for more GC. Switchable ABS too and OEM skid plate. Real handguards.

I can see desire to keep price down, but they could have done it on XT while keeping base ABS model as they have it. They could easily charge​ extra $600-1000, they have enough room under Vee for premium 650 trim.
 
#2 ·
Then folks would complain about being charged extra for something that they feel should be on there. I guess that business wise, Suzuki know much more than you/I do about manufacturing and retailing of motorcycles, regardless of how you feel. :grin2:

Coops.
 
#4 ·
I chose my 650 Stroms because they were the best middle weight sport touring bikes I could find that let me stretch out and had good range. I was basically looking for something like my old BMW R90S that was more reliable, bigger bodied, had a big dealer network and was not stupidly expensive. The DL650 was far and away the best choice. I never left the pavement with mine. I'll bet most V-Strom riders, like most SUV drivers, don't take them off road at all.
 
#12 ·
Yup....that is ALL that I am honestly asking, for crying out loud give the 650 the brakes and suspension from the Vee2!!! :furious: If they don't end up ever doing that, I will likely have a Super Tenere in the garage next. The price of the 650 would likely "in reality" go up like only about $700/$800 for the suspension and brakes from the 1000. If they wanna make the 1000 the flagship then that is fine with me, but the 650 is lacking in brakes and suspension......come on y'all be honest!!! They could practically dominate the market if they would only build the realistic and common sense Strom models we are asking for, but I am sure they won't. :frown2:
 
#8 ·
Why didn't they? I assume it's because of the DNA of the bike. It's always been a budget friendly bike, and with motorcycle sales as low as they are, Suzuki cannot afford to upgrsde the bike too much at once. The prices have gone up, but when you add an additional $1,000 for a Wee, now you are in with the competition. They're having a hard enough time selling bikes, even with discounts. Remember, it's a Suzuki. BMW and KTM buyers are going to spend premium for the premium bikes. Suzuki cannot make a bike good enough for those guys, so it would be somewhat of a loss to try. Therefore, they stay in the niche that works for the average buyer who can't or won't spend big for the goodies. Any improvements to the Strom have to be incremental and cost-effective while still managing to make sales. That's my take anyway.
 
#10 ·
That was an R80/7 with higher fenders, longer shocks, semi knobbies and shorter seat. It was very much like today's DL650, a middle weight street bike with some mostly cosmetic pretensions at adventure.
 
#30 · (Edited)
And just see what it spawned...hooo..whoopeee..ray!!

No idea (and don't care, either) how many or few folks elsewhere have taken/ do take their DL's off-pavement, but at least the 1.+2. gen'ners over here in AUS +NZ have used their Stroms extensively off-road (some still do, while most ex-Stromers have found greener pastures)....it just suckers you in!

I can certainly see a good-sized niche-market for a more dirt-worthy DL.
A market, that wouldn't shy away from paying another grand or 2 given a wallop of factory-gravel-worthiness. Forget the thou (it's a pig off-pavement) , but a well-stacked 650 would sell like hotcakes over here. Some wire-wheels, electronic flimflam and a $10 beak just don't cut it.
 
#13 ·
The 650 outsells the 1000 2 or 3 to one. Upgrade the suspension to the same level and 650 sales would plummet due to the cost increase. Most 650 buyers wouldn't know the difference, much less consider it worth the money.
 
#14 ·
I politely disagree, the brakes "alone" between the current 1000 and the 650 is night and day. Why do you think so many have upgraded the brakes on both the ole 1000 and the past/current 650's? The brakes and suspension are always what I notice immediately on any bike I have owned or ridden, Suzuki finally saw the light with the new 1000. I think Suzuki might be more concerned that the 1000 sales would plummet further, should they properly outfit the 650. :wink2: The Stroms will always be the budget bikes of the ADV market, but if most Strom owners would get out their calculator and add up the farkles on their bikes, a more expensive and better equipped machine isn't necessarily more expensive. :smile2:
 
#21 ·
Absolutely! I can see them not wanting​to invest into dry sump and filter relocation, or lifting bike for more clearance, but within given design limitations, why to loose another 2" by putting​ exhaust pipe under the case?

AT has marginally higher seat and much more GC, most of which coming from smart exhaust routing.

I am not advocating turning Wee into DS bike, but why handicap it more than it already is?
 
#23 ·
To me the XT is a poor version of what it should be.

Sure, the wire wheels are a great upgrade if you are planning on treating the bike harshly but the added crash bars, hand guards and el cheapo plastic sump guard are just that - simple bolt on add ons. I live in Queensland and wear vented gloves for 90% of the year - why would I want handguards? My dirt bikes had hand guards and barkbusters. These days I prefer not to fall off.

The XT should be the model which gives customers the opportunity for upgraded components - not bolt on extras. Wheels, suspension (front and rear), brakes, and maybe bars and levers. And perhaps some electronics mods. That is what the XT version should be.
 
#24 ·
No, I hate electronic mods.:grin2: If you want upgradings nothing is stopping you adding them yourself. It would still be cheaper than those other fancy pantsy models nominated as better.:wink2:

Coops.
 
#25 ·
I disagree. I have a total dislike of buying a machine and then throwing away various expensive components to replace them with better quality items. Only when I was young and stupid did I ever throw away my car wheels and replace them with mags.

To think that you can buy and replace major components and end up with a equal bike that costs less? Surely that's unachievable. Just imagine buying a new V2 and putting all the top shelf levers, bars, suspension and brakes off a KTM 1050 for less than the cost of a new KTM 1050.

Electronics? How about switchable ABS and power modes for the 650?
 
#32 ·
The KLR 650 has no fuel injection , no USD forks , no aluminum frame , no tubeless wire wheels, No ABS , no TC , no cruise control , no ride by wire, NOT EVEN A FREAKIN CLOCK !!! and it is the most successful ADVENTURE BIKE ever made . The more Suzuki gives us , the more we whine ...like welfare recipients.
 
#73 ·
It's been in production mostly unchanged for 25 years.

That's why it's the "most successful ADV" bike, total sales. Not because it's a great bike. It's mediocre anyway you look at it.

I put 60k miles on the 08 KLR I had so it's not like I don't have an informed opinion. :grin2:
 
#33 ·
Does she do what you want her to do?

Bottom line for me is that my 2014 v2 does what I want her to do and she is brilliant at what she does by being a great all-around bike.

As far as sport-touring, the V2 is a better experience than my previous ST1300 which is a dedicated sport-tourer. The smooth and effortless highway riding is top-notch.

For off-road stuff, I don't want to take the bike where I would consistently need a skid plate; although, I do have one, just in case. So, in my real-world scenario, the ground clearance is not an issue.

Add in the great brakes, ABS and traction control and you have yourselves one great bike here. I love the bike just the way it is or I would not have purchased it to begin with.

No bike in the world is going to be all things to all people. I think I am more or less a mainstream V-Strom rider. I am guessing that most riders here just like the bike the way it is and for what it is.

Personally, I really have zero complaints.
 
#34 ·
Bottom line for me is that my 2014 v2 does what I want her to do and she is brilliant at what she does by being a great all-around bike.

As far as sport-touring, the V2 is a better experience than my previous ST1300 which is a dedicated sport-tourer. The smooth and effortless highway riding is top-notch.

For off-road stuff, I don't want to take the bike where I would consistently need a skid plate; although, I do have one, just in case. So, in my real-world scenario, the ground clearance is not an issue.

Add in the great brakes, ABS and traction control and you have yourselves one great bike here. I love the bike just the way it is or I would not have purchased it to begin with.

No bike in the world is going to be all things to all people. I think I am more or less a mainstream V-Strom rider. I am guessing that most riders here just like the bike the way it is and for what it is.

Personally, I really have zero complaints.
There ya go. Well said. That's the way I feel too. It's just a great bike.
 
#41 ·
No , the thread started out as to why Suzuki did not make the NEW DL650 XT a real adv bike. That expresses neglect on Suzuki's part and we have discussed why or why not we think Suzuki erred or what an adv is or is not. Lots of good discussion and good , reasonable opinions. I'm not good with words. But Bruce Haslam is good with words and his remarks about "accepting" the V-Stroms for what they are really covers the bases quite well.
Who knows ; maybe someone at Suzuki will see this we may get switchable ABS on the 2020 DL1800 !
 
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#42 ·
. Who knows ; maybe someone at Suzuki will see this we may get switchable ABS on the 2020 DL1800 !
I don't think engine size is an issue, but they definitely listen as they added voltmeter to it.

Better suspension, ground clearance by re-routing front cylinder pipe, ABS switch, more fender clearance, better brake. Engine is fine and if you want more get Vee.
 
#43 ·
I've owned a couple GSs with better brakes and suspension than my wee2 but after riding it for several years I find them very adequate and better than most. The suspension travel alone makes the ability to soak up bumps better than any Harley on the road at a fraction of the cost. Would I be willing to pay $1000 more for better brakes and suspension on a wee? Probably, but I'm happy with the bike as is all things considered.
 
#45 ·
I can make a cruise control for .99
I can add cojent suspension products ...no idea...1k? with a rear shock that raises the bike 1" and not sure how to raise the front yet
I can get a raised fender from vendor on here cheap
I can upgrade brakes but probably won't...just ride more conservative as I have much to learn
I can install an abs switch under $100 I think
ride height by rerouting the pipe...that's a tough one but I'm sure it's been done but I do not know any source for this???

seems like a lot of belly aching for something that is achievable on such a great budget friendly bike even if they did up the price. My peev is that plastic engine cover excuse for protection...real skid plate from the factory please.
 
#46 ·
No....you can have a throttle "lock" for .99, it is not an electronically controlled system. ;)
Once again, Suzuki could put the Vee2 suspension on the 650 for less than we would spend on our own.
Once again, Suzuki could put the excellent brakes from the Vee2 on the 650
ABS disconnect from factory should be a given for an ADV touted machine

Some of us are not really belly aching, just showing what we consider to be Suzuki going on the cheap when they shouldn't be. To really be a serious competitor with the premium bikes in this class, they will need to step out of the comfort box a bit. Now some might just be acting like snobs, but there are some legitimate reasons why the Stroms are laughed at when it comes to them being touted as adventure or dual sport type machines, in particular when compared to their competition. I am just being honest, and we all mostly spend quite a bit of coin to make these bikes better than they are off the assembly line. Suzuki is world renowned for their race bikes both on and off road, they most certainly have the means to make the Stroms class leaders. :fineprint:

Having 2 kick ass choices to choose from with engine sizes is legit, and Suzuki has arguably 2 of the best engines for this category of machine.
 
#47 ·
^^^ Agree with BigB most o the mods could be done on the cheap with no or very little r&d. The Vee suspension and brakes are bolt on, splicing switch into orange wire isn't much. Redesigning fender for clearance? I could see pipe routing may require some effort.

But none of the changes is inherently overly expensive or would require expensive r&d.

We are not talking about redesigning the bike, just some incremental improvements.

Yeah and make exhaust slip on compatible for Christ sake.
 
#48 ·
throttle lock, fly by wire, digital inverted mofo cruise control...who cares what it's called....99 cents and be happy you got your right hand back for a while.

What do I know because I'm from klr world where a strom is like a Bentley but unless you work for Suzuki none of you really know what the cost to add those upgrades and the +/- effect on the marketing of the 2 models is.

Seems all the complaints can be resolved with mods....how far do you want to go vs just buying the ktm with your new red white and blue helmet, gold cape and proving to the world you will not be laughed at anymore ;)
 
#49 ·
Its just parts bin swapping for suspension and brakes guys and gals, the 650 could be "exactly" like the 1000 minus the bigger engine. Yeah I want electronic cruise control, the rest of the competition has it........just sayin. As good as the 650 is, it can no doubt be made much better with a few 1000 parts for next to nothing by Suzuki or the consumer. ;)
 
#50 ·
I find it funny how the Stroms have attracted so many riders that do (or have pretensions of going) offroad.

When I got my first Strom (2006 DL650) in July of 2006 I joined Stromtrooper. I hooked up with some locals (they lived within 100 miles) that did a lot of riding and we did a lot of Sunday rides. All of the rides were on paved roads that were the natural domain of sport bikes (and some of us rode accordingly!) and apologies were given when a road had been torn up and was temporarily gravel. Our adventures tended to be 500 mile/800 km or so Sunday rides on as many twisties as we could find. Many of us started doing longer rides, usually into the USA, and in those cases the Stroms were used much like touring bikes. Some of us upgraded suspension on the first gen bikes with stiffer front fork springs and cartridge emulators (for the DL650's) and some did rear spring/shocks as well but I think the vast majority of owners just went out riding on the bikes and really did little in the way of modifying the running gear.

There was a small subset of Strom Riders that actually did offroad riding and from what I have seen they are still a very small subset. I think for most people the Strom, especially the DL650, is plenty good enough and meets the needs of most people that buy them. I know I was quite happy riding my DL650's and am quite happy riding my DL1000. I also wouldn't be surprised to be on a DL650 next time around (but that will be a while!)

..Tom
 
#51 ·
There are also, no matter what brand of bike the forum is aimed at, people who love to make out that they are far better riders than their bike is allowing them to be. Perhaps though it is the opposite and they actually cannot reach the standards of their bike. But it must be the bike's fault.

I could go out and buy a Royal Enfield and not complain about it. I know that I have said this before, but I buy a bike and then I adapt my riding to suit it. I don't expect the bike to adapt, or even be able to, to me. That is probably why I actually like this 650 that I now have. It seems to suit me just as it is.

Am I just lucky, or easily pleased, or simply don't know any better? Perhaps all of those, but I don't care. I/we go out and have fun and "adventures" on it. It's got enough performance. It never gives me any "moments" on the fairly crappy roads around here. It's economical. It's comfortable. I love riding it. I also love that I don't have to worry about cleaning and polishing it when I get home, or the next day, or until the end of the month even.:grin2:
 
#63 ·
Am I just lucky, or easily pleased, or simply don't know any better? Perhaps all of those, but I don't care. I/we go out and have fun and "adventures" on it.

I share your outlook. I have some other toys, a Jeep, an old motorhome, old dirt bike etc. They aren't as prestigious as some people's but I have just as much fun using them. Actually I may have more fun than most because I can bring them home and park them without fretting over making payments on them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#52 ·
@V-Tom: if you build it they will come.

What you are describing is the nature of ADV bike market. I don't believe higher percentage of GS being taken off-road so Wee is no exception.

It isn't a question of function but rather perceived value. Where do you think those Tigers, Africa Twins and 1190s spend most of their time? Yet people buy them for style if not function.

Suzuki can take the approach they took: try to convince everyone it is not necessary and they know better. Loose some customers and damage their reputation. Or they can listen and build what customers want.

Yes Wee isn't​ a dual sport, but why unnecessarily handicap it? It isn't that it betters their bottom line, they likely loose more in sales then a few pennies they save on minor changes base model would need like changes to wiring and exhaust.

2-tier approach (plain vanilla ABS and XT) wouldn't loose them any existing customers or would make base bike more expensive. People looking for on-road touring bike can still get one for the same price. The ones who need or want more off-roadiness will get XT, pay for upgrades and leave more money in Suzukis pockets. And it would still be a better deal for consumer.

And if there isn't any demand, why do you think we have all those threads on suspension, fender mods and ABS switches? Or why there are so many posts on ADVrider saying how bad Wee is because of low clearance and crappy suspension?
 
#54 ·
[MENTION=12204]V-Tom[/MENTION

And if there isn't any demand, why do you think we have all those threads on suspension, fender mods and ABS switches? Or why there are so many posts on ADVrider saying how bad Wee is because of low clearance and crappy suspension?
Because people love to think that they know so much better how to make a bike, and how to make money making bikes, than the manufacturers.

There are also many posts on ADV saying how bad BMW's, KTM's, Harley's, Moto Guzzi's, Africa Twins', and in fact every bike ever made, are. Why? Because folks love to knock and try and show their superior knowledge.:wink2:

Coops.
 
#53 ·
What fun would it be to have a perfect bike? Getting to play with a bike in the garage to make it better is half the experience for me. I'll take a less expensive bike that I can improve in the areas that interest me every time. Give me a reliable engine, a suspension that can handle the street, ABS brakes strong enough to lock a wheel with four fingers and I'll add an electronic cruise control myself and have fun doing it. I had to change fork springs and brake pads on the Wee to get there but the Glee was good out of the box for me.
 
#55 ·
Part of Suzuki's problem is the orientation of the engine. The VTwin is very tall, which affects where the seat ends up, and also affects the ground clearance. They need X distance between top of cylinder head and bottom of cam, plus oil sump and all the exhaust, takes up a lot of space.

Look at the GS, it has cylinders sticking out sideways, huge difference, Now they can raise the clearance under, and add a gigantic tank and still have a decent seating position. Nobody seems to be concerned that when the bike crashes the top of the engine is ground off, it still sits at the top of the heap of Adv bikes.

The KTM is a bit of a puzzle, it is also a VTwin, but it does have a 21" front wheel, so that provides more clearance underneath. I have never ridden one, and likely never will, all I see in every trip report involving a KTM is them all apart at some point being fixed for some major component, frame cracked etc., the quality just isn't there, despite their popularity.

If the exhaust on the 650 was moved out from underneath, where would it go?, no room above, which leaves running pipes along the sides to melt your expensive riding gear. There is not a lot of space to play with on a bike.
 
#79 ·
If the exhaust on the 650 was moved out from underneath, where would it go?, no room above, which leaves running pipes along the sides to melt your expensive riding gear. There is not a lot of space to play with on a bike.
It can go where it should've gone in the first place.
It's tight, but it fits. I'm sure the factory could make a better job out of it than I did.
It's all just basic engineering.

 
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