So much for Fram oil filters

[mike183]

I purchased a few Fram oil filters the other day. I noticed that the Suzuki filter weighs about 50% more than the Fram. I went to put one of the Fram filters in today. Tried to use my cap wrench. The dimples at the end of the filter are not deep enough for the wrench to get a good grip.
I tried my Sears strap wrench. Got it to about 1 1/2 turns and the wrench snapped. I was going to leave it at that, but I noticed that the filter was dented by the wrench. I got my plumbing wrench and took the filter off.
Good thing that I had a Suzuki filter. Put that on and no problems.
All hail Suzuki. I will never stray again. I hope the rest of the congregation does not find out that I strayed.

[DooFighter]

1. you're right, fram filters are junk

2. you only need to tighten the filter hand tight. With a little oil on the seal it'll snug up nicely.

IMO, of course.

[mike183]

These filters have a very fine thread.
At first I did not believe that they could be turned two turns. I discovered otherwise. They require quite a bit of pressure to turn them two turns but this is what Suzuki recommends. Car filters are hand tightened. I talked to a mechanic and he said that if you don't turn them the proper amount they will leak.

[Chris]

Yup I Hate Fram
I had the seals on 2 frams fail on my van... Switched to a Puralator.. No Prob

Today I changed the oel on my DL.. Got the suzuki filter. Read about the 2 turns... Tried it but could only muster a turn and 1/2 by hand.

It leaks (slight drop wells up under filter).. I'll have to tighten it up to 2.

Here's an interesting Idea for Next Time..

K&N Filter (race approved, supposed to exceed oem, Has a 17mm Nut welded to the end.. spin it on and wrench to tightness.

I may try this next time.

[DooFighter]

Well, I suppose if it leaks, tighten it up a little. My experience is on my honda magna and my suzuki atv (they rec 2 turns past touching there also). I've fought with overtightened filters before and it ain't worth it. Onward.

[FJR/V-strom trooper]

Yup I Hate Fram
I had the seals on 2 frams fail on my van... Switched to a Puralator.. No Prob

Today I changed the oel on my DL.. Got the suzuki filter. Read about the 2 turns... Tried it but could only muster a turn and 1/2 by hand.

It leaks (slight drop wells up under filter).. I'll have to tighten it up to 2.

Here's an interesting Idea for Next Time..

K&N Filter (race approved, supposed to exceed oem, Has a 17mm Nut welded to the end.. spin it on and wrench to tightness.

I may try this next time.

The K&N is the same as the Hi Flo filter with a nut added at a high expense. But it is convenient on and off.

[hbonser]

FWIW,

I read elswhere that you DO NOT need to tighten a Fram 2 turns! Holy cow! The reason is the gasket... Suzuki's is rounded and Fram's is flat. The round one needs 2 turns to deform it to seal properly. The flat gasket on the Fram only needs 1/4 turn or so. Try tightening a plumbing fitting too tight and it'll leak all over as well!

No wonder the Fram dented! Suzuki proabably has to make their filter wall heavier to handle 2 turns of pressure. That might be a big reason it weighs more.

For my information, what leads Fram filters to get a bad rep? I mean, anyone lose and engine to one? I've never had a single problem on any vehicle with Fram filters or Purolators or whatever... Seems like another arguement similar to choosing what oil to put in your bike.

[cablebandit]

I just snug up the new Suzuki filter by hand as tight as I can. No leaks here.

[MAXSTROMBERG]

FWIW,

I read elswhere that you DO NOT need to tighten a Fram 2 turns! Holy cow! The reason is the gasket... Suzuki's is rounded and Fram's is flat. The round one needs 2 turns to deform it to seal properly. The flat gasket on the Fram only needs 1/4 turn or so. Try tightening a plumbing fitting too tight and it'll leak all over as well!

No wonder the Fram dented! Suzuki proabably has to make their filter wall heavier to handle 2 turns of pressure. That might be a big reason it weighs more.

For my information, what leads Fram filters to get a bad rep? I mean, anyone lose and engine to one? I've never had a single problem on any vehicle with Fram filters or Purolators or whatever... Seems like another arguement similar to choosing what oil to put in your bike.
A while ago I read somewhere that the Frams were no good because of the machining process. Seems that when the threads are cut, bits of metal were getting into the filter and then to your engine.
But on a recent episode of *How it's made* I saw filters being made and the threads are cut BEFORE that part is mated to the body of the filter. So who knows. You know how folk lore, wives tails and the like get started......

[FJR/V-strom trooper]

Its not that they will make your engine fail. Its just that they are not made with the same precision and filtering capabilities of some of the other filters. Its not that they aren't good and won't do the job its just thats there are better filters to be used. Its the same with oil. Change it often and you will have no problems. But you could put an oil that has a better protection testing than other oils if peace of mind is important to you.

[randyo]

FWIW,


For my information, what leads Fram filters to get a bad rep? .


Fram used to have one of the best reps and about 20 years ago or so, asian manufactureds began making defective pirate fram filters, and they floodded the US markets in discount stores like K-mart

needless to say, they started to get a bad rap because of it. I've never heard of a problem with a real Fram filter

some people started taking them apart and discovered they use some coated cardboard instead of metal at the ends... big deal, the filter is only intended to last 5000 miles or so before you change it, why make it more expensive than it needs to be:rolleyes:

there is nothing wrong with fram filters, follow fram's intructions for tightening, not instructions for a suzuki filter

[hbonser]

Ditto those remarks, RANDYO...

[stevet]

Some light reading on oil filters...

http://www.motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

And for those of you studying for your PhD in Oil Filterology, or suffer from sleeping disorders... WOW!
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0601_st.asp (part 1)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0602_st.asp (part 2)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0603_st.asp (part 3)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0604_st.asp (part 4)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0605_st.asp (part 5)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0606_st.asp (part 6)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0607_st.asp (part 7)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0609_st.asp (part 8)
http://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0610_st.asp (part 9)

Honestly, I would not expect anyone (well, someone probably will anyway) to read all these offerings, just demonstrating that indeed, ALL OF LIFE'S QUESTIONS can be answered on the internet!!! Yeah, it's true! Whatever. The last one of the 9 part series is probably the one to read of that group, although the rest I'm sure would have outstanding information.

Steve.

[Frenchie]

Hi Flo 138 is 1/2 the price of an K&N. No nut. No pretty chrome

Supposed to be the same filter.

Calfornia Sport Touring.

[Night_Wolf]

Have used many Fram filters on my bikes for over 80,000 miles and I have yet to have a probelm. BTW a proper Fram Wrench would have worked on the FRAM filter (I have Suzuki and Fram capable wrenches) My take is most people who worry about Fram filters or "oil" will never keep a bike long enough or put enough miles on it to worry about a failure. 27,000 miles in 2 seasons on my 05 Strom and the primary filter of choice was Fram and regular motorcycle oil from Canadian Tire (Store brand)

Fram used to have one of the best reps and about 20 years ago or so, asian manufactureds began making defective pirate fram filters, and they floodded the US markets in discount stores like K-mart

needless to say, they started to get a bad rap because of it. I've never heard of a problem with a real Fram filter

some people started taking them apart and discovered they use some coated cardboard instead of metal at the ends... big deal, the filter is only intended to last 5000 miles or so before you change it, why make it more expensive than it needs to be:rolleyes:

there is nothing wrong with fram filters, follow fram's intructions for tightening, not instructions for a suzuki filter

[Big B]

Fram SUCKS...there I said it, and ya'll aint changing my mind.:mrgreen: When a majority of people say that something sucks, it usually does. To those of you that use them, have good luck, and actually like them....I am tickled to death for ya.;)

[2kMarauder]

I use Fram on my DL650, my Marauder, and my truck. Never had any problems. Just my experience.

[J. Clarke]

On this business of how many turns to tighten, read the filter. If it doesn't say anything then tighten it per the book. If it says how many turns to tighten then tighten it that many turns. If it says "one turn" don't try to tighten it two.

[Mr. Ray]

I use Fram they work fine. My oil is pretty clean when I change it and my drain plug has no deposits on it when I change the oil. The BIGGEST thing is changing the oil right on time. I am betting the suzuki filter weighs more because of the metal they use and nothing more.

Who knows though?

[GrayStrom]

Fram filters have been known to be junk for years by a lot of car guys.
One example: Buick big block motors are very unforgiving when it comes to oiling. Fram filters have been known to cause a loss of oil pressure, which is a big deal in these motors. Also, if you read most of the tests out there, there are many other better filters. Frams are generally at the bottom of the list as far as quality goes. In other words, you can do better.

[hbonser]

Hey Big B, What is the REASON you say they suck? Had one fail on you?

Here is your quote...

"Fram SUCKS...there I said it, and ya'll aint changing my mind. When a majority of people say that something sucks, it usually does. To those of you that use them, have good luck, and actually like them....I am tickled to death for ya."

Majority of people say they suck? Can't say that I see enough negative on this forum to even get close to a "majority".

I ran a 1983 T-Bird Turbo coupe to 230,000 miles with the original turbo on Fram oil and air filters and the only reason I don't have the car is a lady in a Buick with a Purolator oil filter rear-ended me and totalled the car.

Yes, you are right... Be tickled for those that are satisfied with them... I'd say that's the majority.

Have a good one...

[jsap3071]

I've used Fram oil filters on the Wee, all three of my previous bikes, and on my truck. Never any problems. I've used regular motor oil in all my bikes as well. No issues ever.
I am fairly religious about changing my oil on all my vehicles, so that is probably the reason.
I'm wondering about the tightening comments...:confused: People really follow the directions on the exact amount of turns??? Wow.
Tighten the damn thing till you can't anymore and then check it after every ride to see if it's leaking. Tighten and add oil as necessary.
My humble opinion.

[BMAC]

Kinda late on this with my input after all the shooting is done. I bought two Suzuki filters when I bought my '07. Followed the change soon approach to break-in. Read the "two turns" bit and struggled to get the two turns after contact. But..... That is what was "factory recommended." Started the motor and all was well. Ddecided that I needed to take a spin to confirm all was well on the oil change. Out of the drive and down the hill , down shift for the stop sign and the rear end slides???? I look back to see a skid mark and see a trail of oil!!!!! Oil was pouring out of the bike. I was fifty yards away from my house. I coasted back. The autopsy revealed the seal had torn loose. From overtightening is my guess. I have never tightened a filter more than hand tight before. Won't do it again. The price of the Suzuki filter at $9.99 is WAAAAY more than the FRAM from Walmart. Price is an issue when the FRAM is $4.95. Just my late piling on. Brian

[GrayStrom]

From http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html:

"Oil Filters come basically in three qualities. Very good, with excellent filtration; normal; and really incredibly bad. This last category, really incredibly bad, should obviously be avoided. Accordingly, never use a Fram, Pennzoil, Penske, Castrol, or Quaker State oil filter in any motor you like. All of these filters are made by Fram. The filter element itself is a normal paper element, and probably no better or worse than anyone else's paper element. However, the end caps on the filter element are made of cardboard in these filters. There are numerous stories of these cardboard end caps getting saturated with oil and coming apart, putting little cardboard fragments directly into the oil flow into your engine bearings."

[Jstrom]

Been doing my own maintenance and repaires for 30 some odd years and almost always go with the OEM filter on my bikes and cars and truck. I drive Toyotas for their build quality and reliability plus I have close friends with a Toyota dealership who also ride motorcycles. Anyhow, I use an OEM filter tool for both cars and bikes and tighten to factory spec. NEVER had a problem in all those years with any oil filter. I'm also a licenced mechanic, which doesn't mean anything one way or the other, but sometimes when you do something for a living you get good at it, sometimes things just turn to crap in your hands. Use the best tool and product for the job regardless if the price is low or high and apply the right amount of care and attention.

[Big B]

Hey Big B, What is the REASON you say they suck? Had one fail on you?

Here is your quote...

"Fram SUCKS...there I said it, and ya'll aint changing my mind. When a majority of people say that something sucks, it usually does. To those of you that use them, have good luck, and actually like them....I am tickled to death for ya."

Majority of people say they suck? Can't say that I see enough negative on this forum to even get close to a "majority".

I ran a 1983 T-Bird Turbo coupe to 230,000 miles with the original turbo on Fram oil and air filters and the only reason I don't have the car is a lady in a Buick with a Purolator oil filter rear-ended me and totalled the car.

Yes, you are right... Be tickled for those that are satisfied with them... I'd say that's the majority.

Have a good one...


From http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html:

"Oil Filters come basically in three qualities. Very good, with excellent filtration; normal; and really incredibly bad. This last category, really incredibly bad, should obviously be avoided. Accordingly, never use a Fram, Pennzoil, Penske, Castrol, or Quaker State oil filter in any motor you like. All of these filters are made by Fram. The filter element itself is a normal paper element, and probably no better or worse than anyone else's paper element. However, the end caps on the filter element are made of cardboard in these filters. There are numerous stories of these cardboard end caps getting saturated with oil and coming apart, putting little cardboard fragments directly into the oil flow into your engine bearings."



Because of this very exact article...and the fact that "motorcycles" engines differ greatly than car engines do. Use what you like, but FRAM still sucks. And since they make filters for other manufacturers, they must suck too.;) I am not going to try and save myself 4 or 5 dollars for a cheaper filter, when I can get a better made unit for a little more.

As for the mentioning of the OEM filter being overtightend causing a major leak.....I am really surprised. I can easily do the 2 full turns on the OEM, and it doesn't take much effort. I use the Suzuki oil filter end cap wrench, and it goes right on without a hitch. I would much rather go with a little cheaper brand of oil, than to use a junk Fram filter. Plenty of other good alternatives if you want to avoid the OEM cost. I am not bashing other manufacturers "just Fram" and the FRAM duplicates.

Brian

[garandman]

Is there a Purolator Pure One for a Wee-Strom?

[whistler]

Nope. Wish there were, though . . . my cruiser and truck luv'em.

[GrayStrom]

Yeah, I was looking yesterday for one... dissappointed to find there wasn't one listed.

[hbonser]

Good info and exchange of posts!

I run a Suzuki filter currently, so know my "antagonism" comes from wanting to see why opinions are formed. Usually a little jabbing gets folks to open up, like in this case. :p

With that said, I am real curious about the cardboard end caps coming apart inside the filter and getting in the main bearings. Was that documented, or assumed?

In any case, I'd bet a buck that the Fram filter in question had high mileage oil in it, and it sat over the winter, deteriorating in the sludge forming crap that old motor oil becomes. When that poor beast was fired up in the spring, the pressure inside from neglect was probably too much and it tore the end cap to shreds.

OK, that is an assumption on my part, but it makes you wonder what the circumstance was that lead to a failure inside the filter that lets cardboard into the engine.

OK, enough said on my part... Thanks for the input! :)

Have a good one!

[decker48067]

Hey the OEM's pay big bucks to alot of engineers to design this stuff and sometimes thay get it right. They have to deal with gigundis law suits though so they have to be conservative in what they incorporate in the design.

[GrayStrom]

With that said, I am real curious about the cardboard end caps coming apart inside the filter and getting in the main bearings. Was that documented, or assumed?

In any case, I'd bet a buck that the Fram filter in question had high mileage oil in it, and it sat over the winter, deteriorating in the sludge forming crap that old motor oil becomes. When that poor beast was fired up in the spring, the pressure inside from neglect was probably too much and it tore the end cap to shreds.

OK, that is an assumption on my part, but it makes you wonder what the circumstance was that lead to a failure inside the filter that lets cardboard into the engine.



Of course, as with any other component there will be failures. The problem I have with fram is personally hearing of 2 or 3 that have potentially ruined motors.
I have also heard of a K&N filter failing on a turbo Buick V6 motor. It actually violently exploded on the starting line at the drags. This was said to be due to ultra fine filtration with a high pressure oil pump. I'm not sure if the valve failed internally or what happened, but it was a big mess.
Does that mean I wouldn't use a K&N? No, just be careful what application you use anything on.
But, why would you use Fram, when there are obviously better filters out there for about the same money, if a few dollars more? Just doesn't make sense to me.

[GrayStrom]

Hey the OEM's pay big bucks to alot of engineers to design this stuff and sometimes thay get it right. They have to deal with gigundis law suits though so they have to be conservative in what they incorporate in the design.

For example- AC Delco. These aren't half bad filters. They don't have the finest of filtering, but they're well made.

[BubbaGee]

I think the issue with the "2 Full Turns" all depends on when you start to count the turns. Each persons grip/hand strength could cause variations in the start of the count. If you start counting as soon as the filter makes contact then it should be fine but if you turn it as far as you can by hand then you may only need to turn it 1 or 1.5 times. All depends on the person's strength.

[hbonser]

Read the instructions, then there's no question on how many turns!

Sounds too easy...

This post has really gotten some mileage, unlike a Fram filter that would have blown up or grenaded the engine of any V or Wee on the planet.. :)

[Night_Wolf]

All filters that will work on a Suzuki Intruder VS800/VS1400 will work on the Strom

Purolator ML6818

Check the Wrenching & Tips section of my site for a complete list of filters available

Is there a Purolator Pure One for a Wee-Strom?

[stevet]

Read the instructions, then there's no question on how many turns!

Sounds too easy...



That's right, just changed mine for the first time the other night, owner's manual says from the point where the rubber gasket first makes contact, that is your starting point for the 2 revolutions. OEM filter, by the way.

Steve.

[romavo]

Using Fram since that was what I found when I needed one. Hand-tightened.

So far so good. Still have one, might give something else a try after I use it up. Might go H-Flo or Puralator for $6, that's about my price range.

[RWEST]

I've been using NAPA Gold 1359 (WIX 51359) on my various Suzukis (the Bandit, the SV1000 which I traded on the 'Strom, and nephew's 600 Katana) for years. They're good filters, and reasonably priced. The 'Strom's due for its first oil/filter change, and that's what I'll be putting on it. :D

We've also used NAPA filters on a variety of John Deere diesel equipment, mainly as a matter of convenience, since the NAPA guy's 3 miles away, and the J-D guy's 40. ;)

The only filter I've ever seen in 35 years that actually failed was a Purolator on a '71 Pinto (!!) that split lengthwise. This was one of the early 2 liter, OHC, "good" engines, not the later, problematic 2300 engine that had cam wear problems, was not abused or misused, relatively low (50K +/-) mileage, regular oil/filter changes. It was a company vehicle, so, they stuck a new Puro filter on there, filled up the oil and away she went. Never did figure out what caused the problem, it ran another 100,000 with no issues. :confused:

[twowheelsgood]

I put a K&N filter on the 'Strom last fall. When I went to change it last week, the nut on the end rounded off. It turns out that it's not a nut at all -- it's just the same pot metal used for the shell molded into the shape of a nut (confirmed when I crushed it then ripped it off with vise grips while I was trying to get the damn filter off). There's also no knurling on the end of the filter, so an end-cap filter wrench doesn't work. (I finally got it off with a strap wrench.)

I've used Purolator filters on other bikes with no problems. Comparatively, the K&N was pretty rusty. I've recently read other bad things about K&N (mostly that their filter element is not so good), but the crappy non-nut thing means I'm never buying another one of them regardless.

[XLonDL650]

FYI

The Fram oil filter I have just purchased for my Ford Ranger(X-tra Guard) claims that the new filtering media they now use is a cellulose and glass blend which they claim lasts 3 time longer.

These were stocked in the same place previously occupied by their previous generation of filters at my local Wal-mart, so I assume this is the next generation(?)

[ohiovstromer]

puralator is made by fram here in greenville ohio

[ozart]

Here's a fellow with over 150k miles on his DL1000 and some of his quotes from another forum.
In his 100K report.

27 oil changes - Castrol Syntec 10x40 (full synthetic)
14 oil filter changes - Fram PH6018

at 120K

Other maintenance performed from 100K to 120K:
6 oil changes/3 filter changes - Castrol 10X40 syntec/Fram filters
at 150K

On some previous threads I posted my 100,000 mile writeup....(March 2008 )
Now it is time for my 150,000 mile writeup (Sept 2009). Once again there have been NO mechnicals and NO parts had to be purchased except those that I consider as 'routine maintenance'.

In the last 30,000 miles: (since the last writeup)
-8 oil changes and 4 oil filter changes. all Castrol 10x40 syntech w/ Fram filters

Just for those that like to argue oil and filters.:argue:
:biggrinjester:

[rjsurfer]

OEM filters all the way for me.

The wall thickness is greater on the OEM's compared to most others (just lift them up, you can tell easily) and with the exposed position of our filters to road debris that's a big selling point for me.

This post should answer all questions and end the thread:green_lol:

Ron W.

[ezrdr55]

OEM filters all the way for me.

The wall thickness is greater on the OEM's compared to most others (just lift them up, you can tell easily) and with the exposed position of our filters to road debris that's a big selling point for me.

This post should answer all questions and end the thread:green_lol:

Ron W.

+1 well said.

[RWEST]

Here's a fellow with over 150k miles on his DL1000 and some of his quotes from another forum.
Just for those that like to argue oil and filters. :argue:
:biggrinjester:
Interesting, he ran Frams, changed them every other oil change, and it's still holding together. Hmmm... :confused:
Maybe they aren't so bad after all. I say all that facetiously, since we've used Frams for millions of miles on dozens of vehicles over the years, with nary a failure. That said, I use OEM, WIX or Purolator filters on my bikes. Guess I'm a hypocrite.. :(