Cush drive - Sprocket misalignment.

[WeThereYet]

I have been watching with interest the ongoing trials and tribulations of Strommette and her cush drive system. I just finished reading 16 pages of a related thread on the other VS Forum which delves into this pretty deeply. One thing I didn't notice was anyone with a 2006 weighing in on this matter. Does this issue an affect the 06? Greywolf thinks so, but he doesn't own one. I have 7000 km on mine and am pleased with the way it runs. When I look at my rear sprocket from the rear, if anything it appears to be just left of center, and is not showing any odd wear patterns. If this an issue relevant to this bike, those spacers people are getting seem like a cheap fix. My interest in this subject is more with respect to maximizing cush drive life as opposed to any performance issues. I still find it strange that a 2mm offset over a 650mm length would beat the shit out of cush drive rubbers. Any thoughts on the matter?

[capfo01]

I have to agree. I was out in the garage this afternoon looking at mine and thought the same thing you did. If anything it looks like it's left of center. I'm going to check it further this weekend but I have a hard time believing that this is going to be an issue, at least on my bike. I'll let you know what I find out after I check the alignment further.

[Big B]

My chain and sprocket wear at 9500 miles, is ZERO!!!! My bike shifts great, and my chain usually stays in great adjustment. I checked my cush drive when I changed my rear tire...they looked perfect, and I had no dust or visible wear on them. When I change my next rear tire, I'll have my buddy make me a new set of spacers, taking measurements from the originals. Maybe mine will run even better then...but seems to be fine as is! :wink:

[WeThereYet]

I have to agree. I was out in the garage this afternoon looking at mine and thought the same thing you did. If anything it looks like it's left of center. I'm going to check it further this weekend but I have a hard time believing that this is going to be an issue, at least on my bike. I'll let you know what I find out after I check the alignment further.

capfo01,

I'd be curious to see what you find. No other 06 owners have weighed in on this, though it may be that none have logged up enough miles. Several of the 05 guys have reported improvements with the MM or their own modified spacers. I'd like to do a side by side comparison between my 06 and an earlier non modified one, not so much to see where the chain runs, but to see how deep the hub sits in the wheel.

I'm not sure if I fully grasp the issue. I understand that the offset puts an odd torque or undue strain on the hub assembly and wears on the cush rubbers, as well as causing vibration and hard shifting. Anyone who is wiser on this feel free to correct me. Now I'm not an engineer (apparently like a high % of Wee owners :lol: ) but it's only 2mm over a really long run. I can see it resulting in wear on one side of the chain/sprocket or another if it's contacting the side, but how is it wearing the rubbers?

I am not going to sweat this until, if ever, it becomes a factor. What concerns me is Suzuki's inability to supply parts for what appears to be a maintenance item. Strommette's 50,000 miles obviously puts her at or near the top of the high milers. But the V should be able to do 100,000 easily with proper maintenance, and Suzuki has to step up to the plate and supply us the parts to get us there. I was wondering if the sudden drought of cush rubbers was due to a lot of Strommers discovering the issue around the same time, and stocking up.

What we should all be concerned about, both Vee and Wee owners alike, is now that the Stroms are starting to pile up some miles, what part will be next. For now it's cush rubbers now, next........!

[mikevstrom]

The most disconcerting thing about disintegration of the cush spacers is the resulting wobble on the sprocket . . . with the chain very loose i was able to wiggle the sprocket about 3/16 at the teeth. I'm going to the DID chain when we do the cush drive on Monday. I'm at 16k miles on the '04.

[MightyShep]

Hey guy's,

I to have been looking into this. I have an 06 1K @ about 16K miles. I noticed that there are two part numbers for the cush rubbers, and one of the posts indicated that the higher number (64651-35F10) was a stiffer rubber. I have just ordered a set (no trouble indicated about getting them) and will replace my old rubbers with the new harder set. The only issue I had was when I removed my rear tire to replace a worn tire with a new one, the sproket was kind of loose. I had not seen the posts regarding this issue when I did the tire replacement.

Also my$.02 regarding all the hoopla about milling new spacers and what not. I paid $40. for 5 cush rubbers. That''s not a big deal to me. If I have to do that every 15-20K miles I don't see that as a real problem. What I don't know at this time is the condition of the carrier bearing, but I will get a good look at that when I do the rubbers next week.

[WeThereYet]

Thanks for jumping on Mighty Shep. My whole reason for going down this road was the possibility that these parts might not have been available, judging what Strommette has been going through. If you can get them whenever you need them, that's perfect. I agree that $40.00 every 20,000 km is nothing in the overall scheme. Let us know how it goes.

[STROMETTE]

For now it's cush rubbers now, next........!

I can safely say at least one current answer to "next" is the fuel pump... on backorder for going on 9 weeks, yes, NINE FREAKIN' WEEKS!!! (insert twisted evil emoticon here).

Stromette

[WeThereYet]

Stromette, did you get the cush rubbers thing resolved?

[STROMETTE]

Stromette, did you get the cush rubbers thing resolved?

Not sure what you mean by "resolved" but I did just put in another new set (the 4th). Since I've experienced backordered issues on every set w/Suzuki I now have an extra set on hand for when these go out.

While I was out today zipping around on my CBR I thought how odd the cush drive has only been replaced once on the bike in 60,000 miles (yes, more miles than my Strom) and my Strom has seen four in 50k miles. Yeah, misalignment yadayada... I have reached my limit with Suzuki's lack of product support for an otherwise very solid bike.

Stromette

[WeThereYet]

Not sure what you mean by "resolved" but I did just put in another new set (the 4th). Since I've experienced backordered issues on every set w/Suzuki I now have an extra set on hand for when these go out.

While I was out today zipping around on my CBR I thought how odd the cush drive has only been replaced once on the bike in 60,000 miles (yes, more miles than my Strom) and my Strom has seen four in 50k miles. Yeah, misalignment yadayada... I have reached my limit with Suzuki's lack of product support for an otherwise very solid bike.

Stromette

As long as you eventually got them. It sounded like they were back ordered indefinitely.

[MightyShep]

Update: Just got the call that my Cush rubbers are in. That was 6 days from when I ordered them to arrival time (that includes a Sunday). Not the nighmare I've been hearing about. I will pull the wheel this weekend and take a look at the carrier bearing while I replace the rubbers.

[WeThereYet]

Good to hear. Maybe we're not all doomed. (on the cush rubbers anyway). Would be really interested to see what you find on your 06.

[Dale Walker]

Is it a bad material issue with the back cush drive inserts or do they fit loosly


Let me know what most have found to be the case please


Cheers Dale

[Big B]

Is it a bad material issue with the back cush drive inserts or do they fit loosly


Let me know what most have found to be the case please


Cheers Dale

Seems that Suzuki has made them more durable recently. I had no carrier play when I changed my rear tire, and the cush rubbers looked good as new.

WHERE YA BEEN DALE????? Good to see you back and posting again, I thought you dropped off the face of the Earth!

BB

[MightyShep]

Update: I picked up my cush rubbers today and while I was there I thought I would ask about the availability of a fuel pump for an 05 DL1000. They checked the Suzuki warehouse system and, low and behold, fuel pumps are available. The system noted that they are in "Low Quantity" but they are available nontheless. While this search was taking place I was chatting with the parts guys and mentioned Stromettes difficulty in getting one of these, and also indicated she'd been waiting for 9 weeks. That got a few interesting looks. After talking a bit longer these guys hinted at the notion that Stromette is getting jerked around.

Since I cannot presume to speak for Stromette and her particular situation, I don't want to imply any impropriety on the part of her dealer or their parts department. What I do know is that there are fuel pumps in Suzuki's southern warehouse.

[WeThereYet]

Good to know. Thanks.

[MightyShep]

Update:

I couldn’t wait until the weekend, so I picked up my cush rubbers and went to work on replacing them. Here’s what you’ll need to do it.

Required:
10mm combination wrench
12mm combination wrench
24mm combination wrench
all purpose grease
cotter pin replacement
flat head screwdriver

Optional equipment:
Iron Maiden on cd player
Cold beverage

I raised the bike on my swing arm jack (don’t know if that is its name or not) and removed the rear tire. When I had the tire free the sprocket assembly was loose. I removed it to check for the indicated wear patterns from the German post on that other BB.


The rubber shows a little wear on the face, but there was no buildup of rubber in the corners that would indicate significant wear.



http://www.mightyshep.com/images/cush3.jpg

and the carrier bearing had zero play. The rear side of the sprocket also did not show the same wear patterns that had all the other people freaking out about the 2mm offset issue.

http://www.mightyshep.com/images/cush5.jpg

Also when I cleaned all the crap off of my sprocket and checked for wear there was some but not specifically on the rear side. It was minimal wear even and equal on both sides of the teeth. Note that this sprocket has 16000 miles on it.

http://www.mightyshep.com/images/cush7.jpg

To replace the cush rubbers I used the flat head screwdriver to pop them out, and a little grease to insert the new rubber. Once inserted the sprocket assembly was a great deal tighter, and I needed to physically convince it to return to its proper home. It must not have appreciated this because during the reassembly process the ****er bit me. The new rubbers had what appear to be more rubber in the crotch of the V (the area that the sprocket set in) than the previous ones had. This may be all the help needed to prevent excess movement. I'll have to wait to see.

http://www.mightyshep.com/images/cush8.jpg

It is my opinion that this problem has been mostly addressed by Suzuki. I will keep an eye on the new rubber to see if it wears as fast as the old ones, but I did not find the significant wear that was concerning other people.

[Heavy]

I think our '06's came from the factory with the firmer rubbers in them.

[MightyShep]

The one thing I did notice was that the new rubbers had that same 7 that you can see on the old ones. I don't know what that means. If they area the same as the ones that I replaced, then this will be an every 15/20K maintenance thing. But at $40. from the local dealership (i've seen them cheaper online) that's not that big a thing. The main issue I had was that there was soooooo much talk about everything backordered that I was worried about getting items when I needed them. Since so far that seems to be a red herring ( you must chop down the tallest tree in the forest with a ....Herring!)<-obscure reference<-, I am less concerned.

[Heavy]

You didn't consider the new axle spacers with the 2mm offset?

[MightyShep]

I did, but I wanted to see if it was warranted. After all the Germans were the ones all excited about this 2mm offset. And, well, German engineers are kinda precise. I'm not sure that all that extra milling of parts was necessary. I looked long and hard for the wear indicators that were put forth in their posts, but couldn't find them. My sprocket wear is even, my carrier bearing is fine, and my cush rubbers were not powdered like the ones shown in that post. So I concluded that I didn't need to go through all that nonsense. I may live to regret that, but I'm the kind of guy that goes against the lemming instinct. After all lemmings all end up in the same place, know what I mean?

[Heavy]

I know what you're saying. I also know I'm not happy with the chain alignment on mine. I haven't had it professionally, or accurately, checked but it looks off line when I eye-ball it. I've played around a fair bit with the chain adjusters but my chain wants to track on one side of the rear sprocket all the time. I can't correct it without having the rear wheel alignment off to one side pretty bad.

[STROMETTE]

It is my opinion that this problem has been mostly addressed by Suzuki. I will keep an eye on the new rubber to see if it wears as fast as the old ones, but I did not find the significant wear that was concerning other people.

What in the world makes you conclude that Suzuki has addressed this problem???? ...and w/only 16k miles on your bike? I must have missed something here. I've got multiple sets of used cush drives and none show "signifcant wear" to the human eye.

Stromette

[MightyShep]

The absolute answer would be to do the spacer replacement. With my bike I don't see 2mm off angle one way or the other. I was hoping that the effects of this issue would let me know, and perhaps they have. The fix is not that bad, or that hard. As long as the carrier bearing is still good it is just a matter of removing the wheel and replacing the old spacers with the new ones. That certainly can be accomplished over the winter that you are about to enjoy! :D

[MightyShep]

What in the world makes you conclude that Suzuki has addressed this problem???? ...and w/only 16k miles on your bike? I must have missed something here. I've got multiple sets of used cush drives and none show "signifcant wear" to the human eye.

Stromette

There is a post on the other VStrom forum that shows significant wear to the carrier bearings of the older VStroms. That is what I'm talking about. The carrier bearing on my sprocket assembly is fine, and shows no significant wear. As for the rubbers wearing out, that is something I'm willing to live with. I understand your current feelings towards Suzuki Stromette, and that's an issue that you will need to work out on your own. As for me I'm just trying to help others here that have expressed concern about the greater issue of the 2mm offset. When the sprocket assembly drops out of the wheel with only gravity affecting it I would call that showing "significant wear to the human eye"

[WeThereYet]

Good report MightyShep. Could be that the issue has been hammered out for 06. My sprocket is ever so lightly left of center in the chain, and does not make contact with the side. There's no vibrations, although I haven't got that many miles on the bike. I am interested in Heavy's comments that his alignment is out. If your reading this Heavy perhaps you could elaborate. I recall reading a post elsewhere that says all the spacers do by moving the hub 2mm further into the wheel is put a further squeeze on the cush rubbers that are already there, firming them up and making them work better. The actual 2mm misalignment is not actually the problem, the soft and worn rubbers are. I haven't seen these things apart yet so I can't comment on the validity of that theory. Who knows, I am not an engineer. As long as these thing are available when you want them it is a non issue to me. Thanks for the update.

[Heavy]

I haven't looked at mine recently and I'm not at home right now. I plan to tear into it this winter. If I can't get my chain alignment within reason then I'll be looking at the spacers.

[WeThereYet]

I haven't looked at mine recently and I'm not at home right now. I plan to tear into it this winter. If I can't get my chain alignment within reason then I'll be looking at the spacers.

Has your sprocket been running along the inside of the chain? That seems to have been the biggest complaint, and I can see a 2mm shift to the right curing that.

[kcstrom]

I got the MM spacers. I first put them in by themselves so I could see _exactly_ what improvements they had on the Vee. I noticed a ton of improvement. Namely:

1.) Clutch chudder symptoms reduced A LOT!
2.) No lurch between shifting gears
3.) No huge "CLONK" between 1st and 2nd
4.) Other smaller improvements (perhaps physcological?)

I then shortly thereafter replaced the rubber cushions, and then a little bit later both sprockets and chain. NONE of these components were really very worn at all. I replaced the rear sprocket to go from 43T back to 41T (previous owner liked 43T) and front one while I was at it. Chain was at end of service length (according to service manual). I had already ordered the harder cushions (I have an '03), so I put them in.

By far, the most significant improvement was from the MM 2mm spacers.

kcstrom

[STROMETTE]

There is a post on the other VStrom forum that shows significant wear to the carrier bearings of the older VStroms. That is what I'm talking about. The carrier bearing on my sprocket assembly is fine, and shows no significant wear. As for the rubbers wearing out, that is something I'm willing to live with. I understand your current feelings towards Suzuki Stromette, and that's an issue that you will need to work out on your own. As for me I'm just trying to help others here that have expressed concern about the greater issue of the 2mm offset. When the sprocket assembly drops out of the wheel with only gravity affecting it I would call that showing "significant wear to the human eye"


Oh, geez, this has NOTHING to do with feelings, it has to do with FACTS... like widespread issues of "worn" cush drives, issues of backordered cush drives/availability, replacement cush drives also wearing out, etc. I am not aware of anyone who has added the 2mm spacers AND gone through enough miles to determine they indeed eliminated the wearing of the cush drive. Basically, no one has apparently added the spacers and since run high miles.

The other fact is that the 06 and 05 have the same part numbers (albeit the 05 has an "updated" part number which is now the same # for the 06). That said, I've run through 2 sets of the same exact cush drive that you just put in your 06 (another fact) so I'm not seeing where there would be any reason to think, much less conclude, that the issue was either fixed by Suzuki or is something symptomatic only to pre-06 Stroms. While your intentions are good I don't see how you are "helping others" that have concern by broadcasting such a conclusion w/o a factual basis.

Respectfully,

Stromette

[greywolf]

If the cushions are natural rubber, do not use petroleum based grease on them. A silicone based grease is fine but petroleum attacks rubber.

[Big B]

When I change my next rear tire, I think I'll give my buddy the rear spacers and let him do his magic. He'll take the measurements, make the changes and make me a new set! Man....I love having a buddy with his own machine shop!!!!!:)

[MightyShep]

Oh, geez, this has NOTHING to do with feelings, it has to do with FACTS... like widespread issues of "worn" cush drives, issues of backordered cush drives/availability, replacement cush drives also wearing out, etc. I am not aware of anyone who has added the 2mm spacers AND gone through enough miles to determine they indeed eliminated the wearing of the cush drive. Basically, no one has apparently added the spacers and since run high miles.

The other fact is that the 06 and 05 have the same part numbers (albeit the 05 has an "updated" part number which is now the same # for the 06). That said, I've run through 2 sets of the same exact cush drive that you just put in your 06 (another fact) so I'm not seeing where there would be any reason to think, much less conclude, that the issue was either fixed by Suzuki or is something symptomatic only to pre-06 Stroms. While your intentions are good I don't see how you are "helping others" that have concern by broadcasting such a conclusion w/o a factual basis.

Respectfully,

Stromette

Well I guess we should all just genuflect ( Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Late Latin genuflectere, from Latin genu knee + flectere to bend -- more at KNEE
1 a : to bend the knee b : to touch the knee to the floor or ground especially in worship
2 : to be servilely obedient or respectful
- gen·u·flec·tion /"jen-y&-'flek-sh&n/ noun) to the great Stromette and accept all that you say as the Gospel.

[MightyShep]

Has your sprocket been running along the inside of the chain? That seems to have been the biggest complaint, and I can see a 2mm shift to the right curing that.

I know I only showed one side of the sprocket in the pictures but my wear was dead even. Granted I don't have 50,000 miles on my '06. What can I say, I've got a job...and a wife.

[Heavy]

Can't remember which side but I know it wasn't centered. I'll take a look when I get home. I noticed it when I changed the rear sprocket. I tried to correct it and, when I found it was going to take a huge misalignment of the rear wheel, I gave up and left it alone. That was about 5,000 miles ago. I haven't looked at it since. Like I said, winter project.

Has your sprocket been running along the inside of the chain? That seems to have been the biggest complaint, and I can see a 2mm shift to the right curing that.