Survey on gas, 87 VS 93 octanes

[jeanmarcfla]

I always use the 87 octanes. Last week-end while I was pumping, my friend told me I was crazy to use the 87, but that I should instead use the full premium 93... What's your opinion on the matter?

[djb383]

Tell your friend, I said, he's crazy.

[Vordak]

I run 91 Octane always. Secondaries have been removed. K&N air filter. Bike runs strong and loud. One occasional burp every 1000Kms or so, that's it.

V.

[garry]

Higher octane fuel is only required if your bike is detonating (aka "pinging" or pre-ignition) under load. This is more common in very high compression engines. You will get the best peformance by running the lowest octane you require to prevent pre-ignition/detonation.

If your bike pings, then run higher octane fuel. The problem is, detonation can be happening and don't hear it. I'll pretty much trust the mfgr spec if I don't hear any pinging. I started with 89 in my new-to-me Wee Strom and put 87 in the last tank. I purposely tried to make it ping by whacking the throttle wide open, going uphill, from low RPMs and didn't hear anything bad. I'm going to continue to pay attention to it until I'm satisfied it's OK.

[jeanmarcfla]

Tell your friend, I said, he's crazy.

I'll pass on the message, thanks... 8)

[bigtallguy]

Started out with 87 (brand spankin noob to motorcycling). I didn't have any problems until a few thousand miles, conifdence grew and so did the amount of throttle I used on a regular basis. Then it started pinging under load. Switched to 89 and haven't heard a peep (or ping) since.

[BOB56]

I run on 89 octane, even though the Suzuki mechanic told me to use Premium gas. Runs great. May try 87, but with the small amount of ethanol in the local gas, 89 seems like a good number.

[greywolf]

Higher octane fuel is only required if your bike is detonating (aka "pinging" or pre-ignition) under load. If your bike pings, then run higher octane fuel. This cannot be said often enough. Use the lowest octane that doesn't cause pinging. That's why you'll find 85 octane in high altitude areas. Pinging is less of a problem with less dense air. Also, stick with top tier gasolines as their lower octane fuels have additive packages as good as their higher octane products. See http://www.toptiergas.com/

[VtSTROM-K5]

Higher octane fuel is only required if your bike is detonating (aka "pinging" or pre-ignition) under load. If your bike pings, then run higher octane fuel. This cannot be said often enough. Use the lowest octane that doesn't cause pinging. That's why you'll find 85 octane in high altitude areas. Pinging is less of a problem with less dense air. Also, stick with top tier gasolines as their lower octane fuels have additive packages as good as their higher octane products. See http://www.toptiergas.com/

I agree if it isn't pinging it doesn't need the higher octane :)

[xrmattaz]

I agree if it isn't pinging it doesn't need the higher octane :)[/quote]



If it isn't pinging, higher octane is a DETRIMENT to performance.

[mjgaffney]

2005 Strom 1000 with no engine or exhaust mods.

Noticed that the manual recommends min 87 octane.

Started with 89 primarily from the shell station near my home.
Ran that for about 2500 miles during which I had the ECM (engine control module) upgraded to the new 2006 model which resolved the 'struttering' between 2k and 3k rpms (see various other threads for more info.) Noticed though that with the ECM (which was replaced after 600 miles) that the exhaust has what I think can be described as a 'rich' gasoline smell. Started calculating my mileage about then also and found that I was only getting about 37 miles per gallon on a regular basis. No pinging with 89 so after about 2500 miles I started to experiment some. Tried a tank of 87 and found that I would get an occasional backfire (maybe once or twice in 150 miles of mixed use.) No pinging but had a couple of occasions where, when starting from a stop at an intersection, the bike would hesitate when I laid on the throttle... almost like a misfire which left me uncomfortable in traffic. Next tank I upgraded to premium (92 octane) and found that the bike didn't backfire or hesitate PLUS my mileage seemed to increase by a few miles per gallon. Haven't confirmed this though because the performance on 92 was so similar to 89 that I've gone back to 89 and am happy (but would sure like to see better mileage... anyone have any suggestions?) :lol:

[jeanmarcfla]

I also get the usual struttering between 2K & 4K, and am used to it after riding over 9500 miles. I am not an aggresive rider and ride smoothly, rarely opening up the full throttle, therefore, not noticing any possible piging. As far as mileage is concerned, I do an average of 37mpg and feel that it is a poor performance. Is upgrading the octane gives a better mileage?

[Grandpa]

I usually run on 87 octane. 15K on my 04 DL1000, and get a consistane 47 MPG. But I don't ride hard anymore, my skin tears easier & heals slower now.

[djb383]

Tell your friend, I said, he's crazy.

I'll pass on the message, thanks... 8)

Educate him.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

[jeanmarcfla]

Tell your friend, I said, he's crazy.

I'll pass on the message, thanks... 8)

Why? Educate him.

Too late to save his soul :twisted:

[Big B]

I feel that 89 is the BEST compromise, that is what I run allot!

[mjgaffney]

I also get the usual struttering between 2K & 4K, and am used to it after riding over 9500 miles. I am not an aggresive rider and ride smoothly, rarely opening up the full throttle, therefore, not noticing any possible piging. As far as mileage is concerned, I do an average of 37mpg and feel that it is a poor performance. Is upgrading the octane gives a better mileage?

Tough to tell whether the higher octane or riding conditions were responsible for slightly better mileage I got with the one tank of 92 I ran. It seemed though That I was getting 4 or so miles more per gallon for those 5 gallons I ran through my engine. But the price was higher too and performance wasn't really improved much. So I went back to 89.

[Gary]

05 DL1000 ran better on premium with secondaries still in, but after I took them out, I can't tell any difference, my Vee has never pinged, I still have a slight popping around 2800 rpm's, it is only occasional now, (9,450 miles) Running regular and just going back and forth to work I'm getting 50 to 55 mpg.... I've checked this out faithfully, tis true!! and I'm still loving it !!!!

[jeanmarcfla]

05 DL1000 ran better on premium with secondaries still in, but after I took them out, I can't tell any difference, my Vee has never pinged, I still have a slight popping around 2800 rpm's, it is only occasional now, (9,450 miles) Running regular and just going back and forth to work I'm getting 50 to 55 mpg.... I've checked this out faithfully, tis true!! and I'm still loving it !!!!

I have 9600 miles now, just cleaned the air filter over the week-end (didn't change it), up for a new set of tires (will try Metzeler Tourance this time). Let see what the gas mileage will be, as I was always in the 37-40 mpg.
What is "secondaries still in"? my lack of knowledge :?

[Heavy]

So, where is Mortaine when you need an authority to set us morons straight?

[Reverendbiker]

So, where is Mortaine when you need an authority to set us morons straight? :mrgreen:

[VtSTROM-K5]

Wait for it .................................................. ....should be anytime now :roll:

[MightyShep]

Blah Blah Blah Blah... you're all stupid....Blah Blah Blah....


How's that? :lol:

[RockyMtnRoadRash]

Blah Blah Blah Blah... you're all stupid....Blah Blah Blah....


How's that? :lol:

That was good, convincing. But you left out all the dubious supporting evidence.

My Uncle's Brother's Cousin is a REAL mechanic who chew bolts and spits cotterpins and he said so GodyouresostupidImlonelyhereinmymomsbasement.

[VtSTROM-K5]

Wow that was soooo CLOSE ..
:twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

[mjgaffney]

Don't know Mortaine but he sounds like a real charmer. :wink:

[MightyShep]

LOL. Just thought I'd add some levity.

[BumbleBee]

uh..about the gas thing?.......

I've tried different fuel with my 03'1k, and IMHO there are many variables to consider.
1-state of tune (is tbs, tps, throttle cables, plugs, ect ) are they in correct adjustment? efi engines rely heavily on sensor inputs/map settings that are based on mechanicals being set to proper specs.
2- quality of fuel, even if it says 87 octane, well your guess is as good as mine, I've been experimenting with the few choices I have and I've been stickin with one that works well for me. 87 octane. +1 for toptier fuel!
3-weather conditions, cold damp air is gonna behave differently that hot dry air. remember most stock stroms seem to be setup on the ragged edge of lean (barely enough fuel to support combustion). so changes in air density are going to effect effeciency.

In a nut shell? (A big one!) the strom was designed in a labratory with controlled conditions, with near perfect adjustments, to give satisfatory results on gas with a minimum of 87octane.

Keep it tuned, run what works!

BumbleBee

[Big B]

Uh......some pretty good info given, as well as experience. Now fellas, cut Mortaine some slack and play nice!!!!

Any other good feedback concerning octane ratings, or personal experience is WELCOME!!!! :wink:

[Mortaine]

You guys looking for me? Why and what is the question, Mighty I have NEVER called any of you stupid, you are all smart about something, and yes we (me included) are all stupid about some things. You guys are having a pretty good conversation on your own so why you trying to pick on me??

Mort

Gaffney I am usually a very nice person, I just don't candy coat things and it rubs some of the guys on the forum in a manner not to their liking.

[Heavy]

I wasn't picking on you. I was just anticipating your cheery contribution.

[Mortaine]

Hi Heavy

Nothing Cheery to comment about, I have tried 87, 89, 91, and 100+.
Where I live it gets Verrry hot in the summer and my bike will ping more then I like on 87 octane, 89 eliminates most of the ping so that is what I normally run. On a really hot day 115 to 118 the 100+ works very well but is not needed, the acceleration in the upper gears is very smooth but its not worth the price. Now that the weather has cooled I still like the way the bike runs on 89 octane so I don't see me changing back to 87.
I trust this post is cheery enough for you and the others. 8)

[Big B]

+1 on what Mortaine just posted. I have also noticed my bike running better on 89 octane when it is REALLY hot. Early Spring and Fall, I run 87 regularly. I have never really gotten pinging in hot weather, just a bit of sluggish running......no big deal though. Is it just me......but my bike doesn't seem to like BP gas, is it too much ethanol in their gas?

[Mortaine]

Darn Big B

I did not realize you was a big shot mod-e-rator on the forum, I am impressed. I also see Heavy gets to be a moderator also I know now the forum is fixed :lol: :lol: just teasing Heavy

[kpbeddin]

I have recently noticed the need for using 89 or higher octance because of pinging under load. With the 87 octane, it will even ping during cool weather. My last 2 fill-ups were 87 so I topped off with 93 today and that stopped the pinging within 2 miles of leaving the gas station.

[Mortaine]

Amazing, some months back I attempted to broach the subject of the 1k pinging on 87 octane fuel, I was promply informed I must be mistaken, as that just could not happen, because Suzuki said 87 octane was correct. Now that others have brought it up it seems to be a more accepted fact that they actually do ping. Amazing, :?

[Alacran]

Hi all. First reply here, thought I'd chip in with my .02. Here in Mexico we don't have all the choices that you do. One gas station, Pemex, and two grades of gas, and you can't always get the premium so I always stick with magna (87) and have never had a problem with running poor on my 02.

[Big B]

Amazing, some months back I attempted to broach the subject of the 1k pinging on 87 octane fuel, I was promply informed I must be mistaken, as that just could not happen, because Suzuki said 87 octane was correct. Now that others have brought it up it seems to be a more accepted fact that they actually do ping. Amazing, :?

I am one that "KNOWS" that the manufacturer isn't always right. :roll: They tend to stick with the very safe side of everything. I know that my bike runs differently depending on the temp. So......I compensate for the temp changes, with different octane. It does make a difference for me too. We need to run OEM oil as well, they don't even meet their own specs! :lol:

[kpbeddin]

Amazing, some months back I attempted to broach the subject of the 1k pinging on 87 octane fuel, I was promply informed I must be mistaken, as that just could not happen, because Suzuki said 87 octane was correct. Now that others have brought it up it seems to be a more accepted fact that they actually do ping. Amazing, :?

I wonder if it may be something specific to the K6? Supposedly, there are some tuning differences in the 06 to address issues in the previous models.

[larolco]

Well, I just bought a new 06 DL1000 a few weeks/2500km ago, and can say that it does ping under heavy throttle on 87 octane and it runs like (insert your expletive of choice) on 93 octane, especially if it's an ethanol mix.

Like a lot of V-Strom owners, I have experienced serious misfire problems under light load at around 2700 RPM. This condition is really bad with high-octane fuel, but less noticeable with low-octane. Personally, I'll take the pinging over the misfire, especially when I'm rolling nice and gentle in a high gear out of a right-hand corner. The dealer says this is normal with a new DL1000 (regardless of year) and should clear up with another few thousand kilometres. I remain doubtful. For now, the best remedy seems to be to run it hard and listen to the ping. I'll begin considering the Power Commander in another couple thousand K.

Don't get me wrong, though, I love the bike, but hate the misfire. Next fill-up, I'll try 89 octane from my local Petro-Can at about $1/litre and watch it drain away at about 5.7 litres/100km (sorry, I can never remember how many litres to a U.S. gallon).

PS: I live in Canada (Vancouver) and the gas is a little different up here, as is the beer - we get both in winter-brew (ie. extra anti-freeze/alcohol).

Some days I find myself wondering if I should have bought the Tiger I got seriously air-borne on its maiden voyage....

[water warrior]

Larolco, was using Petrocan but switched to Shell and Chevron with much better results. This is on a Wee / 05. Always has run nice but now the 650 is a little more responsive and feels a tad more powerful with the same 87 octane rating.

[larolco]

WW,

Actually, I've noticed a decrease in the frequency of misfire as the miles add up, so maybe the dealer is right...

I work next door to a Petrocan and the only other gas station on my commute is another Petrocan (you'd think, doing 75 km a day, you'd pass more gas stations, but most of the ride is highway). I guess I'll just have to go out of my way to find a Chevron. What a shame.

Rode in to town with a Wee and a Hardley this morning. Enjoyed the company.

At any rate, the mileage still sucks. It seems I get about 90 km (56.25 miles) per bar on the fuel guage. I do carry a hockey bag on the luggage rack and a stick flying high, which catch a fair bit of wind. Sometimes my wife, too.

[Heavy]

Well, I just bought a new 06 DL1000 a few weeks/2500km ago, and can say that it does ping under heavy throttle...

You'll find the bike runs much better if you keep the revs up. Keep it over 4,000 rpm and it responds to the throttle nicely. I rode through the Rockies, with my wife on the back and the bike loaded, this summer. I found, spinning the motor around 5,000 and above was really fun on the twisty mountain roads. I always run the low octane and, since I've been using more of the tach, I've never had pinging.


...watch it drain away at about 5.7 litres/100km (sorry, I can never remember how many litres to a U.S. gallon).

5.7 litres/100 km is about 50 miles/imperial gallon (41 miles/US gallon). That is around what I have averaged for the past 13,000 kms with my 1000.

[Vinny]

Love how some people think they are gasoline experts. I myself drilling for oil, working in refineries that produce gasoline and diesel will tell you this:

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of cars on the road today do not need a high octane gasoline to run properly and efficiently. Octane ratings are a measure of a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock. "Knocking" or "pinging" in an engine results from an uneven burning of the fuel-air mixture. If your car is not "knocking," using a higher octane fuel will do absolutely nothing for you but waste your money. The fact is that regular unleaded gasoline, 87 octane, is the recommended fuel for most vehicles. You can determine what fuel is recommended for your vehicle by checking your owner's manual.

If you are using gasoline with an octane rating greater than 87 and your engine is not "knocking," drop down to a lower octane gasoline. If your engine begins to "knock," go back up to the next octane level. Remember, octane is nothing more than a measure of anti-knock quality...use the lowest octane fuel which provides you with knock-free operation.

Another myth is that use of a high octane fuel will improve fuel economy. The fact is that fuel economy is determined by a number of variables, including the energy content of the fuel and the condition of your vehicle, neither one of which have anything to do with the octane level of the fuel. In fact, two fuels of identical octane could have different energy content due to a difference in composition.

One last myth is that the name of the grade of fuel is an indicator of the quality or octane level of that fuel. These names should not be relied upon when you are choosing which fuel to use. The fact is that you should always choose your gasoline by checking the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump. By so doing, you will be assured that you are buying the gasoline that you want and, by using the lowest octane that still provides you with knock-free operation, you can save a significant amount of money on your gasoline purchases.

[greywolf]

The only thing I have to add to Vinny's comments is about the additive package. Some companies use an inferior additive package in their lower octane gas. Buy from a top tier company and use the lowest octane that doesn't cause pinging. http://www.toptiergas.com/

[Vinny]

Yes +1 with Greywolf. Top tier gas companies like ExxonMobil, which I drill for, Cheveron Texaco, Sunoco (Sun Oil Company) on the east coast all put higher grade detergants in there fuel such as (alkyl polyoxyalkyl) amino alkanoic acids such as CH3-(CH2)(8-10)-CH2-(O-CH2-CH(-CH3))2-NH-(CH2)2-COOH As you notice when you fill your gas can for your lawn mower, the top tier gas station fuel will be a slight light pink or reddish color. That is the additive "amino alkanoic acid". Your run of the mill mom and pop, or genaric gas stations like AmPm, circle K, Fast Trip, Flying J, any non top tier station 99% of the time will have a clear yellowish type fuel, Because the amino alkanoic acid is not added. Mom and pop stations get the cheapest gas on the market. Private Gas stations place bids to refineries for there gas, that mom and pop station may pay 34-56 cents a gallon for there fuel. About 10% of that fuel believe it or not is water, Top tier fuel is around 0.75%-1.5% water. It cost top tier companies around $0.80-$1.10 a gallon to manufacture the fuel with the detergants. Cheveron and Mobil are huge here in Bakersfield. There are many cheap gas stations around. I told my wife if she ever gets gas at a generic station that it would be grounds for divorce. You can tell if the gas in your car or bike is top tier or not, if your exausht tip is dripping water from condensation do to high water content in the fuel then you got the cheap generic gas. Top tier fuels wont do that.

Just the 2 cents from a person in the oil/gas industry.

[Big B]

My Strom DOES NOT like BP gas!!!!!!!! Doesn't matter where I get it, always the same crappy result. :evil: I have to run 89 or higher, for it to run good. Now...if I fill up at Exxon or Sunoco, 87 runs GREAT.

[Mortaine]

Amazing, simply amazing unbelievable :lol: :lol:

[Yad]

[quote="Vinny"]Love how some people think they are gasoline experts. I myself drilling for oil, working in refineries that produce gasoline and diesel will tell you this:

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of cars on the road today do not need a high octane gasoline to run properly and efficiently. Octane ratings are a measure of a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock. "Knocking" or "pinging" in an engine results from an uneven burning of the fuel-air mixture. If your car is not "knocking," using a higher octane fuel will do absolutely nothing for you but waste your money.


Love how some gasoline experts think they are mechanics ;) Hey Vinny, your last sentence is not quite correct... most modern car engines and some in newer motorcycles as well (BMW for one) use knock sensors to retard the ignition in case of knocking. Most people will not notice this happening. Using a lower octane gasoline in knock-sensor-equipped engines that require a higher octane will not damage the engine OR result in knocking. It will, however, hurt performance. In these cases, using a higher octane fuel WILL do something besides waste your money.

However the rest of your post is quite right and you are obviously a smart guy.. just no need to be snotty to us mortals trying to figure this all out. Happy Trails!

Yet Another Dave