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The Cabinet Man
04-06-2004, 07:49 PM
Greetings all!! The Cabinet Man here. A bonafide FNG!! (Well, to this site anyway...) I thought I'd update The Masses on my DL650 impressions and brief experiences.

I bought my Black DL650 on 03/27/04. (It's not necessary to say that it's 2004 model...) I sold my 2000 BMW K1200RS a week earlier. I still have a 2001 Suzuki TL1000S. Yes, I doth love the V-Twin!!

I ride year-round. The bulk of my riding is commuting to/from work and my annual three-week, 5000 – to – 8000 mile pilgrimage out West. I've made this trip on both the KRS and the TL. (Yes, I rode the TL from Maryland to Utah and back – and lived to tell about it...) I sold the BMW because, while it's a good bike, it's not a great bike. I found it difficult to justify the costs of owning/operating such a beast when my TL is 90% the bike at 1/2 the price. The other reason I sold the KRS was because the throttle has no push/return cable and the heavy throttle body springs (required to return the throttle to “closed”) severely aggravated arthritis in my wrist caused by an old motorcycle crash.

But enough of that. Since I bought my TL, I had imagined that the motor would go nicely into a “light touring” motorcycle. When I first saw the DL1000, I said “YUCK!!” But the looks grew on me. I watched the boards and read the articles. I got scared off the DL1000 because of the 2002/2003 clutch basket problems. Last year when I heard that there was going to be a DL650, I knew that was it!!

My biggest concern during my long trips is “miles per tank”. The TL gets about 180 miles and the KRS got about 200. That's not quite what's needed for those long AZ/NV desert runs. I knew the DL650 would beat the 1000's 45 MPG, making it nearly a 300-mile tank. Take off about 40 pounds and the decision became obvious. Sure, I'd miss the torque, the second pipe, and a hydraulic clutch but nothing earth-shattering.

I put on the miles needed for the 600-mile service in three days and it sits at about 700 miles right now. (Maryland had a week of truly heinous weather last week and I'm still not acclimated to the DL for a lot of wet-weather riding...)

So what follows is what I've learned so far and a bunch of stuff about things I've bolted on while waiting for the rain to pass.


=========================
==> DL650 Impressions <==

-- The Good --

Makes good power after 500 miles. When I rode it from the shop I was still attuned to 1000/1200cc bikes. “What a slug!!” I knew to give it time and my patience was rewarded. It'll be plenty of power for the loaded, one-up touring I do.

Great exhaust note above 6000 RPM. Very nice growl. The Givi hard cases add an odd echo but it's minor. It's not as loud as the Yosh cans on my TL but push the DL hard to 7500 RPM and it's great V-Twin music!!

Light throttle. After my BMW experiences I was definitely looking for a throttle more like my TL. The DL650 has a very light throttle. Don't confuse “light” that with “touchy”. It's exactly what I was looking for.

Perfect EFI mapping. When I bought my TL, it went to the shop three times to get the mapping right. (It was WAY too lean...) The DL was spot on right out the door.

Great fuel mileage. The very first tank (up to 175 miles) was pretty pathetic: 36 MPG. The second tank did a fantastic 53 MPG. The third tank delivered 48 MPG and I was riding like I stole it!! It should get 50 MPG with “regular” riding.

-- The Bad --

Revs are higher than I'm accustomed to. Those coming off of bigger bikes that are used to cruising under 5000 RPM will be in for a rude awakening. A displayed 80 MPH is revving at 6000 RPM. I know the engine likes to rev but I'm so used to puttering along at 4500.

The 5000 RPM break-in rev limit makes highway use scary!! You'll want to be careful with your highway riding if you plan to stick to the Suzuki recommended rev limit. Whenever I ended up on the interstate, I was right-laning it the whole time and was tempted to turn on the flashers!!

-- Notes --

The speedometer is 5 MPH optimistic at 65 MPH. It's actually 60 MPH. I haven't tested higher speeds yet.

I was thinking about putting on a smaller rear sprocket to get back a few of those RPMs. I sat down with a calculator and determined that each tooth taken off the rear sprocket adds 2 MPH at 6000 RPM. I'll stew on that for a while before I decide what to do.

I didn't follow the break-in procedure exactly. Suzuki recommends keeping the revs below 5000 for the first 500 miles. I did that for the first 250 miles. At 250, I started revving to 6250 in first gear only. (6250 is non-coincidentally between 5000 RPM and the 7500 RPM allowed after 500 miles.) Then I added a gear every 50 miles. (Up to 6250 in first and second gear after 300 miles, up to to 6250 in first, second, and third after 350 miles, etc...) I should note that those revs were not sustained revs – it was just run up to those revs during acceleration. Constant revs were still held to 5000 or less. After 250 miles, I made those accelerations a bit harder as well. Not full-throttle stuff but A Little Something Extra to heat up the engine parts for a quick moment.

At about 400 miles, I decided to snug the chain just a bit. While doing so, I discovered that the rear axle was misaligned from the dealership by an entire tick-mark!! I corrected it and had a warmer-than-normal rear brake disk for about 50 miles. Caveat Emptor!!

I had the forks raised in the clamps by a 1/2“ at the 600-mile service. It helps the front feel more planted. Maybe it's just psychological but it does seem better.

My brake pedal was too high so I lowered it a bit. That resulted in a brake light that wouldn't shut off so I had to adjust the switch as well. It's all good now...

There seems to be a natural shift point between 6500 and 7000 RPM. I've run the engine up to 7500 RPM numerous times since 500 miles and it has no problem doing so. But there's something that happens between 6500 and 7000 that tells my brain, “Now!!”


===============================================
==> Givi Hard Cases (from Twisted Throttle) <==

-- The Good --

As recommended by Givi USA, I bought three E460N Monokey cases. (Actually, they recommended an E52 top case.) I'm glad I didn't get the E52 – it would be HUGE!! There is plenty of room in the three E460N cases.

Givi has a nice lock-and-catch design with all the forces working as they should. Still, my psyche would appreciate something that went “click” or “snap” when it closed.

-- The Bad --

I ordered three cases. However, Givi only keys them in pairs so I had two key sets. To get one key to fit all three cases, I had to order a replacement three-lock set -- P/N Z228 – for about $25.

The bags make the bike wide. Really wide! 45" WIDE!! I'll never again be ashamed to carry my Coleman collapsible chair. Don't try lane-splitting with these cases attached!!

The Givi docs that came with the cases say not to use E460 as pannier/side cases. Interesting... Givi USA thinks it's OK so I guess it's OK.

Maryland had some hellacious winds over the weekend and the cases made it a bit of a white-knuckle ride in heavy crosswinds. Granted the cases were empty and the wind was a perfect 90-degree crosswind. I'm sure I'll get to test this again the next time I'm in NE or SD. ;)

-- Notes --

No report yet on the effect of the cases on the fuel mileage. When I get that info, I'll be sure to post it. Maybe this weekend...


================================================== ==========
==> SW Motech Quick Detach Racks (from Twisted Throttle) <==

-- The Good --

Installation is VERY straight forward. The manual has almost no text but the drawings are very good.

Quick detach indeed!! Ten seconds per rack, tops!!

The Givi-specific mounting system is entirely made of metal and quite confidence inspiring, much more so than the Givi stuff. (More on that in a moment...)

-- Bad --

They'll be easy to steal. Get the SWM locks – it's cheap insurance. A Bad Guy can get them off in 10 seconds just like you.

Once the racks are installed, there's no place to attach the rear license plate mount. I think this is just an over site on SWM's part. They have different plating systems than we have in the US. I went to a hardware store and got two U-bolts. I used the two flat cross-pieces and made an extension downward and bolted the license plate mount on them. I covered the cross-pieces with electrical tape and no one is the wiser. Use lots of Loktite Blue.

The racks are “asymmetrically centered". That's a polite way of saying they're not centered. The left side rack is about an 1” or 1-1/2” closer to the bike that the right side. To be honest, the difference is more noticeable with the cases OFF the racks than when they're on. Minor issue...

-- Notes --

Don't tighten anything attached to bike until the racks are in place and aligned. The exception to that is the attachment bar that goes underneath the tail rack.

I know from physics class that the rear attachment bar is not
placing a lot of stress on the plastic fender but that doesn't mean
I'm not going to periodically monitor the fender for cracking.


==================================================
==> Givi Top Case Rack (from Twisted Throttle) <==

-- The Good --

Hmmmmm... I wish I had something.

-- The Bad --

Cheesy mount attachments. Ultimately, it's four thin pieces of plastic that hold the top case on. Just doesn't seem sturdy to me. I ride year-round. How's that gonna' hold up when it's 25 degrees??

The top case is difficult to attach: push, Push, PUSH!!

Back rest? Not likely with the aforementioned flimsy plastic mount. A passenger putting any significant weight on that could end up going off the back with the detached case. I'll be replacing this with an SWM AluRack when TT has them available.

I miss the rubber sheet on the stock tail rack.

-- Notes --

You'll save yourself a lot of cursing if you take a few minutes to remove the stock tail rack when attaching the metal Givi base mounts. The screws are really hard to get to. If you are installing the SWM racks, you have to remove this anyway. Don't be stupid like I was – attach the Givi stuff while it's off.


================================================== =========
==> Scott's Steering Stabilizer (from Scott's directly) <==

-- The Good --

Huge range of adjustments with good “fine” adjustability. Read the manual and you'll understand.

Fantastic machining. I'm sorry, but I'm a sucker for fine machine work. It's has “heft in the hand” and it looks like it was built for the military!!

-- The Bad --

It's expensive: $460 You have to really, Really, REALLY want one.

The installation instructions are slightly misleading. It implies that all of the plastic fairing has to be removed. I undid a lot of screws before I considered the “It'll never all come off” option. In hind site, I took off a lot more than I needed to. Take off the necessary pieces as you go – you'll save time.

Make sure the tower pin is aligned. It should be as close as possible to 90 degrees to the link arm. (Buy one and you'll see what I mean...) The tower pin frame bracket didn't “slip into place” on my DL. There were weld burrs I needed to file off first and I still had to do a bit of tapping to get it on. After I had it all bolted together I realized that the tower pin was just a hair too close to the tank and was putting unnecessary horizontal force on the link arm. I considered ripping it all apart to move it forward (more centered in the link arm) but instead I popped off the damper and bent the frame bracket forward with a big, round screwdriver. Brute force. Same effect.

I can't confirm it but the damper assembly may interfere with Twisted Throttle's crossbar brace.


==============================================
==> Throttlemeister (from Throttlemeister) <==

-- The Good --

Effortless installation. 10 minutes tops. The unit was cannibalized from my BMW. I ordered a DL adapter for $30. It took me an hour to install and align the unit on the BMW. On the DL, it took 10 minutes. Fits great. Looks good. 'Nuff said!!


-- The Bad --

Sorry, I got nuthin'...


================================================== =
==> Cee Bailey Givi Case Bags (from Cee Bailey) <==

-- The Good --

Very roomy. I was concerned about losing storage space but that's not the case.

Good form fit. The cutout fits perfect. A little “tucking” needs to be done before the lid will close but nothing major.

-- The Bad --

The zipper routing is a bit circuitous. There won't be any quick zipping on this unit. The zipper could be a little more robust. Time will tell...

No shoulder strap. I thought for sure I'd get one. Seems not.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On its way:

SW Motech Center Stand
Suzuki Touring Seat +20mm
Suzuki Tank Protector

I'll let you know...


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To be pondered:

Gerbing Electric Gloves. I had heated grips on the BMW but I admit that I was usually underwhelmed. Sure, they could keep my hands from freezing but they rarely kept them warm. I'll try Gerbings and see what that's like. Plus, they'll “relocate” to the TL with ease!!

Saeng Ta Radar Detector Mount vs. various Aerostich/Rider Warehouse models:

http://www.saeng.com/cockpit.htm


Now, where to mount my radar screamer box??...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

OK, enough of this tome!! I hope this helps anyone that could stay awake, errr, uhhh, I mean, that was interested. Post any questions and I'll give them my best shot.

The Cabinet Man
(a.k.a.: TCM)

Bobb_Todd
04-06-2004, 08:25 PM
Damn ! that is one big post.
...............................
I was thinking about putting on a smaller rear sprocket to get back a few of those RPMs. I sat down with a calculator and determined that each tooth taken off the rear sprocket adds 2 MPH at 6000 RPM. I'll stew on that for a while before I decide what to do.
......................
I was wondering about this also. Makes more sense [and it's cheaper] to add 1 tooth to the counter sprocket. Let me know how it works
.........................................
As recommended by Givi USA, I bought three E460N Monokey cases. (Actually, they recommended an E52 top case.) I'm glad I didn't get the E52 – it would be HUGE!! There is plenty of room in the three E460N cases.
............................
The small size of the DL650 made me decie to use E360s and no topbox. Seems to me if you use bigger and load them up with some weight, the front end is going to get very light.
.................................................. .
Gerbing Electric Gloves. I
.......................
I run an electric vest, arm chaps and gloves. I understnad the 650 is only putting out 425 watts so power is limited. I use Widder because it draws less power

I can't get ANY parts in Canada until May so I got the centerstnad, crash bars, rack and Givi bags from Twisted Throttle and will install while I'm in Texas

Bobb
PS glad to see someone post details

rxcoop
04-06-2004, 09:49 PM
thanks for all the detailed info....i'm surprised you've had time to ride with all the modifications and their descriptions. i have been a bit hesitant to make too many additions/alterations til i was firmly convinced i would enjoy the bike. with just over 700 miles, i have reached that point. have had a 2 bros can on back order for a month now and a SWM center stand on the bench in the garage <figured i'd do them both at the same time>. hope you continue to enjoy your mini-strom as much as i have mine...

The Cabinet Man
04-07-2004, 07:06 AM
Bobb_Todd:

Your idea about swapping the primary/countershaft sprocket is a good one. I whipped out the trusty HP calculator and did The Math. Adding a tooth up front (15 --> 16) has nearly the same affect as dropping three teeth off the back. It bumps the speed to just under 85 MPH @ 6000 RPM. I'll discuss this with my mechanic and see what he thinks. If I'm going to do this, I want it done before I have too many miles on the chain.

As far as your comment about too much weight in the cases, have no fear. What I pack is pretty light. A lot of my touring/camping stuff is bicycle-oriented where "every ounce counts". Between my 200+ pounds, the fork-raise, and the Scott's steering damper, there should be enough weight up front. (BTW: I'm only kidding about the damper. Well, just a little...)

There's one thing I forgot to mention in my first write-up concerning the Throttlemeister: be very careful to NOT entirely remove the bolt holding on the stock bar-ends. The nut is not retained and can fall off inside the bars. Throttlemeister has a warning about this in their installation instructions. I heeded it and was thankful. By the time I had the bolt loose enough to remove the bar-ends, the nut was only held in place by about two threads. Loosen the bolt gradually and do Lots-O-Wigglin'...


RxCoop:

Yeah, I had to squeeze in the hours when I could. I rode in between rain storms and played mechanic after dinner. I too was a bit skeptical about the bike until the engine started to come into its own. Once I could start making it breathe hard, I could fortell The Great Things To Come and whipped out my credit card. Other than my less-than-enthusiastic response to the Givi topcase mount, I'm very pleased with everything I've bolted on. And with what it's all bolted to, of course!! :)


Later,

TCM

grunkthump
04-07-2004, 03:39 PM
what do you guys think of the E36's?? thinking of those or the E360's for sidecases. THANKS.

tedder
04-07-2004, 04:18 PM
I've ordered some of the new E41N sidecases. I really wanted something that was top-opening, but I don't like the looks and size of the E21 (although I did see those on a DL1000).

Bobb_Todd
04-08-2004, 07:29 AM
I was initially thinking about E36 but this is an older design which is being phased out.

I avoided the newer top opening model because a friend who has them and many other Givi cases said to him they feel flimsy.

He also opened the top at speed and ripped it right off.

I ended up going with E360s which aren't too big but actaully hold 40 litres rather than 36. They also have a slightly more rounded modern styling than the E36

Bobb

grunkthump
04-08-2004, 08:57 AM
Well I checked my chain alignment last night...OFF by almost 1 mark...the left (chain side) adjuster is forward almost 1 position compared to the right side. How do the bikes come crated?? If the rear wheel is installed at the factory, they may have an alignment tool and the marks on the swingarm may be off. Also, what's the proper chain tension to be running on these?? I'm a long time offroad rider and we run MUCH looser chains due to the long travel suspension. THANKS.

Pauljo
04-08-2004, 12:47 PM
I remember seeing posts on the Yahoo V-Strom forum last year stating that the alignment marks themselves are sometimes off. I don't know if thats true, but some folks did measurements and decided not to use the alignment marks due to their inaccuracy.

I just checked my DL1000, and it is about 1/16" off, It is just barely forward of the 5th mark on the right side, and almost to the 6th mark on the left (chain side). I haven't adjusted the chain yet, but it is at maximum slack right now (with 5000 miles on it), so it's due for adjustment. I guess I need to talk to a mechanic at the shop and see if they recommend using the marks when I adjust it, or keeping the same offset.

hux
04-08-2004, 02:06 PM
never use the marks...get yerself a tape measure and measure from the swingarm bolt to the axle bolt, center to center...Ya can't trust the marks on any bike, at least I never have..

grunkthump
04-08-2004, 02:36 PM
thanks hux...that's what I was thinking of doing. Any recommendations on chain tension for a road bike like this??

hux
04-08-2004, 03:10 PM
I ferget what the manual calls fer, but one thing is for sure - better to be too loose than too tight. I'll see if I can find it somewhere or look it up and post it in the morning..

texbridge
04-09-2004, 11:44 AM
Hmmmm..this is interesting. The chain alignment business is not unique to the V-Strom. My ZRX1200R Kawi apparently had the same issue with at least some bikes. At any rate, the problem inspired a few discussions.
You'd think with all the precision that goes into these bikes that getting the chain marks correct wouldn't be too difficult.

grunkthump
04-09-2004, 11:55 AM
well I measured last night....and with the marks OFF by almost 1 tick, it measures the SAME distance (center swingarm bolt to center rear axle).
Anyone else??

The Cabinet Man
04-14-2004, 07:19 AM
I got exactly 28" center-to-center on both sides. My tick marks are aligned properly. As is my real wheel...

RDJEff
04-14-2004, 04:57 PM
Don't pay any attention to those tick marks on the swingarm, they put them on there before the swingarm goes on the bike. Even the Japanese can't be that consistent! I use a laser level (about $20 at Home Depot), place the bike with the front wheel against the wall, place the level up against the rear tire, and shoot the laser at the wall. Then, adjust the rear until the laser is an equal amount on each side of the fron tire. Its really simple, and only takes a minute.
Drag bikes will run the rear tire crooked on purpose to compensate for cross winds on the track.

alyef
04-15-2004, 02:46 PM
You'd think with all the precision that goes into these bikes that getting the chain marks correct wouldn't be too difficult.

Texbridge,

It has to do with tolerance stackup. Assume that all of the parts have a tolerance of +- .1 degress on each of the connecting features. Remember that the tighter the tolerance the higher the cost of the bike ( there is no way around this ). If there are 10 parts between say the front sprocket and the swingarm and assuming that the swing is 22 inches long than you can get a tolerance stack up to .34 inches. Meaning that the rear wheel might be as much as .34 inches off center from being aligned with the front sprocket.

Can this be fixed? Yes, but do you want to pay BMW prices for a DL? It is a balancing act between 'good enough' and reasonable cost to the buyer.

c2100
07-07-2006, 10:42 AM
How about an update on your bike.

I'd like to know how it has stacked up 2 yrs on!