Dreaded clutch chudder appears

[fstreed]

Bought my '06 DL1000 used in May with 18,000 miles. Now have 23,300. Everything was fine until recently. I first noticed that the shifting was getting clunkier. I have new cush drive units with bearings, etc, on order. The last few hundred miles it has developed a kind of rattle/vibration that shows up around 3300-3500 RPM, regardless of gear position and even in neutral. Annoying as hell. From what I have read on this and the VSRI forums it sounds like the clutch basket problem.

I think I will hold off a bit on pulling it apart. Perhaps someone will come up with a cure. Kind of a bummer. The Vee is such a nice bike otherwise. It will be interesting to see what effect changing the cush drives will have on the problem. Probably not much. I don't mind changing them, they take a beating and the way I see it, better to wear the cush units out than to wear out the really expensive stuff that would otherwise take a beating. But this damned clutch basket problem is the pits. Suzuki should fix it.

[Heavy]

I'm pretty sure the clutch basket problems were with earlier models than your '06.

Have you considered other sources of the vibe? How is the chain? Done any tuning lately?

[fstreed]

The chain and sprockets were new when I got the bike and are in good shape. No tuning lately. I have the cush drives and sprocket carrier bearing, as well as both rear wheel bearings, on order from Oneida Suzuki. This might help the shifting. I don't think that will cure the vibration and noise though, because it also does it with the bike just sitting in neutral when I bring it up to around 3500 RPMs.

I am reluctant to cough up the $250 or so to replace the clutch basket until I am more convinced that is the problem. For now I will just try to avoid the problem by running above or below that RPM range. I don't want to damage the bike further, so if it gets worse I will have to do something. My experience with the local dealership is that they can't even mount a new tire without screwing something up so they aren't much help, hell they can't even order parts and get it right. I haven't tried some of the other dealers in the area (within a couple hundred miles anyway), it might be worth talking to them. Good dealerships with good mechanics are a real asset and are worth supporting. As for changing the clutch basket, I can do that, I think. Would be nice to have an experienced mechanic who knows these bikes check it out first, it could be a tuning issue.

[BadTrainDriver]

Do this test...and it will tell you if you have "Clutch Chudder".

Warm the bike up.
Let it idle in neutral.
Clutch released you hear a chudder.
Pull the clutch in and sound dissapears.
If you can hear a difference in sound...that is the clutch chudder.

Doing the basket is easy...only special tools needed are a 30mm socket and a clutch hub holder(Motion Pro...$40 or so).

BTD.

[larolco]

I doubt it's a clutch problem. Adjust, clean, and lube the hell out of your chain before you spend any more money.

[fstreed]

I doubt it's a clutch problem. Adjust, clean, and lube the hell out of your chain before you spend any more money.

Chain is good, clean, lubed and adjusted, and fairly new. The noise is present even when the bike is on centerstand and in neutral, bring it up to around 3300-3500 RPMs and it sounds like the bottom end is about to come apart, kind of a shrill rattly noise. The sound completely goes away above that RPM and below that range. I have some hearing loss but I can hear it loud and clear. It didn't always make this noise. It has started within the last few hundred miles. I will do the clutch in-out test tomorrow, at the affected rpm range. Idle is fine.

I really don't like the idea of a clutch problem at 23000 miles but I don't like the idea of some of the alternatives even more, at this point I'm kind of hoping it is the clutch.

[Heavy-H]

I have an 06... I complained of a noisy clutch to my dealers tech.. Paid for him to pull it apart.. He found nothing wrong... So I have learned to live with it.....

[fstreed]

I have an 06... I complained of a noisy clutch to my dealers tech.. Paid for him to pull it apart.. He found nothing wrong... So I have learned to live with it.....

I checked it out some more. The noise begins at 3300 rpm and quits at 3500. It starts and stops suddenly, it's not like it starts easy and gets louder as it is reved up, at the critical rpm it just suddenly goes into a full blown screeching howl, like a bearing that's bad would make, and it quits just as sudden. It doesn't matter which gear the bike is in and it does it in neutral. PULLING IN THE CLUTCH DOESN'T AFFECT IT. From what I have read here pulling in the clutch should make it go away if it is the clutch. However, the clutch basket is driven by the engine. There are a couple of people on the other forum who think the problem is the springs in the outer basket getting weak and letting the drive surfaces where the driven plates engage kind of "bounce" at certain rpms. One poster reported shimming 3 of the 6 springs with washers and the "chudder" quit.

I really think my noise has something to do with the clutch. If it was a bearing, either tranny or engine, the noise would probably be spread out over a wider rpm range and would increase in intensity as rpms increased. I am just going to live with it for now, unless it gets worse. Maybe this winter I'll open it up for a look. It just kind of bugs me because this bike has been exceptionally well behaved since I bought it, no vibration, no weird noises, shifted fairly smoothly, none of the running problems others report, just a really smooth and strong running bike. Hell, it didn't even have the wind buffeting issue others piss and moan about. The previous owner installed a PCIII and seems to have done an excellent job of sorting out any issues with fuel delivery.

[larolco]

I checked it out some more. The noise begins at 3300 rpm and quits at 3500. It starts and stops suddenly, it's not like it starts easy and gets louder as it is reved up, at the critical rpm it just suddenly goes into a full blown screeching howl, like a bearing that's bad would make, and it quits just as sudden. It doesn't matter which gear the bike is in and it does it in neutral. PULLING IN THE CLUTCH DOESN'T AFFECT IT. From what I have read here pulling in the clutch should make it go away if it is the clutch. However, the clutch basket is driven by the engine. There are a couple of people on the other forum who think the problem is the springs in the outer basket getting weak and letting the drive surfaces where the driven plates engage kind of "bounce" at certain rpms. One poster reported shimming 3 of the 6 springs with washers and the "chudder" quit.

I really think my noise has something to do with the clutch. If it was a bearing, either tranny or engine, the noise would probably be spread out over a wider rpm range and would increase in intensity as rpms increased. I am just going to live with it for now, unless it gets worse. Maybe this winter I'll open it up for a look. It just kind of bugs me because this bike has been exceptionally well behaved since I bought it, no vibration, no weird noises, shifted fairly smoothly, none of the running problems others report, just a really smooth and strong running bike. Hell, it didn't even have the wind buffeting issue others piss and moan about. The previous owner installed a PCIII and seems to have done an excellent job of sorting out any issues with fuel delivery.
Starting to sound eerily like BadTrainDriver's issue. Have you seen this thread? http://www.stromtrooper.com/showthread.php?t=41905

[BadTrainDriver]

Primary Drive Nut, runs off the crankshaft, left hand thread, BIG NUT, 83lb ft torque.

Check it.

BTD.

[BadTrainDriver]

Service Manual, Engine Section, page 3-83 and 3-84.

BTD.

[fstreed]

Service Manual, Engine Section, page 3-83 and 3-84.

BTD.

Thanks for that, BTD, I just now read through your thread on the noise you had, it is a definite possibility. Good info.

I see you are a hoghead. I work in the car dept. They recently dumped Roundhouse duties on us also, which is interesting considering that none of us know a damn thing about locomotives.

[BadTrainDriver]

Thanks for that, BTD, I just now read through your thread on the noise you had, it is a definite possibility. Good info.

I see you are a hoghead. I work in the car dept. They recently dumped Roundhouse duties on us also, which is interesting considering that none of us know a damn thing about locomotives.

That explains the absolute absurd atrocious filthy Locomotives we get sometimes...lol...just kidding.

BTD.

[fstreed]

That explains the absolute absurd atrocious filthy Locomotives we get sometimes...lol...just kidding.

BTD.

Hey, I don't do bathrooms or windows. :cool: Finally figured out how to start one of the damned things so I could check the oil and brakes and stuff.

[fstreed]

I pulled the clutch cover for a look. Disassembled the clutch and took some measurements. The drive plate "claws" were within spec, the plate thickness was OK, however the notches in the basket that bear on the drive plate claws were worn noticeably. I replaced the basket, along with the associated thrust washers, the big needle bearing, and the convex washer and nut that holds it all together. I checked the big nut on the primary drive gear, it seems to be tight, I couldn't really torque it without pulling the cover from the other side. Nothing in the clutch cover side looked like it was out of order. Pulled the brass filter screen out and checked for metal shavings, none found.

Reassembled everything and torqued to specs. Filled up with oil and water/antifreeze and fired that sucker up. Noise still there. Damn!

I don't have a mechanic's stethoscope but I used the trusty old shadetree standby, a listening stick held to an ear and various parts of the motor. I cannot pinpoint the noise. It sounds like it is coming from the lower end but I have been fooled before so I'm not 100% sure of the source of the noise. As I stated earlier, it starts at 3300 rpm and quits precisely at 3500. The closest I can describe the noise is a (loud) squealing rattly noise. If you have ever heard the sound a throwout bearing makes in a car or truck when it is out you will have an idea of the sound.

I have found no metal shavings or any sign of anything wrong internally, so I am going to continue to ride the bike. I had the local dealership do a valve check not too long ago and wasn't overly impressed with their mechanic. He left the wires off of the horn, he put the big hose from the radiator to the water pump on upside down and left the hose clamps loose. It was soon after I got the bike back that I first noticed the noise. They found all clearances within spec and didn't adjust anything, I really can't think of anything that they could have screwed up that would cause my noise. Perhaps something left loose that is vibrating at the given rpm? I am stumped. I'm just gonna ride the bastard.

[svman]

We have a fix...

http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/showthread.php?p=505505#post505505

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

[gryphon51]

Do this test...and it will tell you if you have "Clutch Chudder".

Warm the bike up.
Let it idle in neutral.
Clutch released you hear a chudder.
Pull the clutch in and sound dissapears.
If you can hear a difference in sound...that is the clutch chudder.

Doing the basket is easy...only special tools needed are a 30mm socket and a clutch hub holder(Motion Pro...$40 or so).

BTD.

My bike does this exact thing, I could not really define it until I read this, but I knew something was different...

is this a warranty thing if the bike is still under factory warranty?

[svman]

Originally Posted by BadTrainDriver
Do this test...and it will tell you if you have "Clutch Chudder".

Warm the bike up.
Let it idle in neutral.
Clutch released you hear a chudder.
Pull the clutch in and sound dissapears.
If you can hear a difference in sound...that is the clutch chudder.

Doing the basket is easy...only special tools needed are a 30mm socket and a clutch hub holder(Motion Pro...$40 or so).

BTD.

What you read above is a further diagnosis to be conducted at idle for the dreaded clutch chudder.

The full blown and unacceptable chudder vibration is all through the bike and happens for a range of about 400 rpm anywhere from 2,800 to 4,000 rpm. Any throttle opening and any gear. If you have this then you need a new clutch basket or a fix to your existing basket that I am currently offering free of charge. Many takers so far - I do a strip and repair. I AM NOT THE GUY WHO IS KNOCKING WASHERS INTO THE SPRING SLOTS.

If the bike is under warranty you would be best to have the dealer investigate and sort it out for you. Be warned if it is the clutch basket it could be a few trips back and forth with denial at first and then trial and error to fix it for you. The big, big, big problem is that Suzuki and consequently their dealers believe the latest bikes and new baskets they supply have a modified basket that fixed the problem. Now the number of new bikes with the problem seems to be reaching the same levels as earlier (nearly all) bikes. Clearly they have not - I have taken the new ones down with the very same old fault so good luck with your dealers. Suzuki tell me development of this engine is finished and so is production so were on our own to fix it.

Don't tell your dealer you see this stuff on the web as they think people get ideas of a fault here. The last thing they want is to fix one for you and then you let every other owner know of the problem. All bikes with this engine are going to get it from what I have seen when I take them to bits.

Svman aka Sharealike