Best approach for short guy?

[Bunker]

I can't quite flat foot a 650. Some say that's no big deal, but I'm a re-entry rider and would feel more confident being able to flat foot. The options I see are:

Koubalinks: $75
Suzuki short seat: $209.95

I'm inclined to bite the bullet and go for the seat, so as to avoid messing with the suspension and ride height. As a newbie, I don't plan on dragging pegs any time soon, but I just think that leaving the suspension alone if possible would be a better approach. Any comments or suggestions?

Also, the salesman claims that the bike will sag a little as it is broken in. Has anyone experienced this?

Thanks.

Tim

[Night_Wolf]

Buy a different bike :( I know that is not what you want to hear, but this is not a nOOb friendly machine. I've only been riding 5 years myself (just starting my 6th season) and I teach people how to ride. If you are a re-entry rider buy a bike better suited ie. where you can flat foot already. You will drop this bike. If money isn't an issue and you like the adventure touring/standard type of bikes, have a serious look at the BMW F650gs. It has a little less power but is available in a lowered version and it carries the weight lower due to location of the gas tank. I have a set of Kouba lowering links, not because I need them, but to facilitate loading & unloading passengers

[Big B]

Buy a different bike :( I know that is not what you want to hear, but this is not a nOOb friendly machine. I've only been riding 5 years myself (just starting my 6th season) and I teach people how to ride. If you are a re-entry rider buy a bike better suited ie. where you can flat foot already. You will drop this bike. If money isn't an issue and you like the adventure touring/standard type of bikes, have a serious look at the BMW F650gs. It has a little less power but is available in a lowered version and it carries the weight lower due to location of the gas tank. I have a set of Kouba lowering links, not because I need them, but to facilitate loading & unloading passengers

Its the PERFECT noob bike....what you smokin??? It also aint cool to say that he will "drop the bike"....thats kind of morbid! :roll: The Wee doesn't have power that will scare the crap out of ya...but yet demands respect.
It has a smooth power delivery, and does so many things well!
You also have a vast choice in aftermarket "goodies", that will further enhance your love for your bike.
If you get the lowering links...you will be fine! I am not a big fan of lowering bikes...but I am sure that the bike will still handle and perform perfectly. You could give the Suzuki seat a chance "first", and then make your decision on the links. BOTH the Stroms are VERY easy bikes to ride, especially if you have ever ridden dirtbikes! Best of luck.....and get the bike that YOU want. Nothing worse than buying a bike that you really didin't want in the first place. :shock: Getting out and riding, is the best teacher. Best of luck to ya!!! :wink:

[water warrior]

Bunker


The Wee is a great ride but be careful if you get one. The bike carries it's weight fairly high and can be intimidating to handle initially. If I may make a suggestion, get the bike with the lowering links installed beforehand and raise the forks about 20 MM. This way you will have a better chance of easier control.
Have crash bars installed at the same time. Signals are expensive to replace if you break one, I know cause I broke one a week after I got my Wee. Above all ride and enjoy it, your second childhood only happens once.

[MATTMAN]

Buy a different bike :( I know that is not what you want to hear, but this is not a nOOb friendly machine. I've only been riding 5 years myself (just starting my 6th season) and I teach people how to ride. If you are a re-entry rider buy a bike better suited ie. where you can flat foot already. You will drop this bike. If money isn't an issue and you like the adventure touring/standard type of bikes, have a serious look at the BMW F650gs. It has a little less power but is available in a lowered version and it carries the weight lower due to location of the gas tank. I have a set of Kouba lowering links, not because I need them, but to facilitate loading & unloading passengers

I'm with Wolf on this one. Stroms are one of the few bikes made that are good for tall people. There are great choices out there for shorter riders to start with. Also, don't fall into the mindset that your next bike will be your only bike forever. Stroms will be around in a few years if you are interested then.

[Night_Wolf]

You have your opinion and since I actually know how to teach people how to ride and since I do own a Strom, I'll stick to my assessment that the Strom in either incarnation is not a nOOb machine. If he can't handle hearing that he WILL drop the bike, then he definately should be looking elsewhere. Damm near every person who purchases this bike drops it including experienced riders. A nOOb will drop it quicker. I know of one bike that was sold with less than 100 miles as the rider was scared after dropping it at least twice. Maybe this guy doesn't need to have his ego stroked as much as you do and will listen to reasonable advice :roll:


Its the PERFECT noob bike....what you smokin??? It also aint cool to say that he will "drop the bike"....thats kind of morbid! :roll: The Wee doesn't have power that will scare the crap out of ya...but yet demands respect.
It has a smooth power delivery, and does so many things well!

[Aussie Stromer 1039]

Sadly you only have to look at the clasified section of this forum to see how many people have found the strom too tall to comfortbly handle, alot of the owners didnt even clock up 5K miles, To buy a new bike only to find it isnt right for you must be a huge downer.

[Bunker]

Thank you for your opinions. If I may re-direct this thread, my questions were not whether or not this is an appropriate bike, but rather a) would you choose to get closer to the ground via the lower seat or the lowering links, and b) does the bike tend to sag a little as it gets broken in.

Your thoughts are appreciated. IF I choose to go with this bike, it will be with the information gained here and elsewhere, and I accept responsibility for the decision.

Tim

[cadhopper]

The Kouba links will drop your bike by about 1-1/8". If you don't need that much you can use these http://www.murphskits.com/vlinks.htm, they will drop your bike by about 3/4". I raised my front fork by 20mm which dropped the bike by about another 1/4". I also shaved my 650 seat on the sides to make it more narrow.

As far as the bike sagging, It may sag a little as it gets older but not much. Also, make sure the seat you are looking at is actually lower than the stock 650 seat. I've seen some mention on this forum that the Suzuki -20mm seat that is made for the DL1000 is actually the same height as the stock 650 seat.

Some might also suggest that you turn the preload on the shock all the way down but I'm not a big fan of this method. Unless you are only using the bike on flat straight roads IMHO the rear shock should be adjusted to the proper sag (around 37-40mm) for your body wieght. If it is adjusted to soft it will allow the bike to pack down on hard curves which will make the bike want to run wide in the corners.

I ride my DL650 fairly hard and this setup works well for me, I do scrap the pegs occasionally but I tend to slide off the seat and lean my body into the turn which helps reduce the need to lean the bike too much. If I feel the need for a road burning run I pull out my trusting blue SV650S which has been retrofitted with a Penske/Traxxion Dynamics suspensions so she goes through curves like greased lighting. :D

One last thing, I'm not sure how much you have ridden or what kind of bikes you have owned in the past so I will make one more suggestion. Go buy the book "Sport Riding Techniques" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893618072/002-0405715-1628832?v=glance&n=283155 if you want to learn how to ride sport/sport touring type bikes harder and with more confidence. I came from riding Harley's for years and was suprised at how agile these bikes can be once you learn the proper techniques. Good luck and ride safe.

[Big B]

Damm near every person who purchases this bike drops it including experienced riders.

Wonder when I'll drop mine???? :roll: Every bike model that is made, can be dropped by the owner....Strom aint no different, a drop is a drop! The more that you ride....the more you increase your chances of a drop. Heck, you can drop ANY bike, just by backing it out the driveway.


Maybe this guy doesn't need to have his ego stroked as much as you do and will listen to reasonable advice

I don't have an ego problem, I buy the bikes that I want, and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. I also feel that I give people reasonable advice. Would I discourage a noob from buying a Gixxer 750 or 1000? Yes ....I probably would! I just don't think that it was cool to say that people "will drop this bike", whether they be experienced or a noob. I have heard MANY inexperienced riders have GREAT luck and success with either Strom. As you probably know.....MOST people buy the bike that they want......that majority gets along just fine! The 650 lowered for him, would be a great bike IMHO! Modify the bike the way that you want it....there is allot of good info here, the VStrom forum and ADV rider. I would go for the lowering links....if things start to sag over time, crank the preload up more. I seriously doubt that you will have any issues! I WILL NOT discourage him or most anyone else from getting "either" Strom. Personally.....the Strom is one of the most easy bikes that I have EVER ridden. And for the record...I have ridden several. :wink: GO FOR IT!!!

[Night_Wolf]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Damm near every person who purchases this bike drops it including experienced riders.

Wonder when I'll drop mine???? :roll: Every bike model that is made, can be dropped by the owner....Strom aint no different, a drop is a drop! The more that you ride....the more you increase your chances of a drop. Heck, you can drop ANY bike, just by backing it out the driveway.


Maybe this guy doesn't need to have his ego stroked as much as you do and will listen to reasonable advice

I don't have an ego problem, I buy the bikes that I want, and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks. I also feel that I give people reasonable advice. Would I discourage a noob from buying a Gixxer 750 or 1000? Yes ....I probably would! I just don't think that it was cool to say that people "will drop this bike", whether they be experienced or a noob. I have heard MANY inexperienced riders have GREAT luck and success with either Strom. As you probably know.....MOST people buy the bike that they want......that majority gets along just fine! The 650 lowered for him, would be a great bike IMHO! Modify the bike the way that you want it....there is allot of good info here, the VStrom forum and ADV rider. I would go for the lowering links....if things start to sag over time, crank the preload up more. I seriously doubt that you will have any issues! I WILL NOT discourage him or most anyone else from getting "either" Strom. Personally.....the Strom is one of the most easy bikes that I have EVER ridden. And for the record...I have ridden several. :wink: GO FOR IT!!!

[Douglas H]

Yeap; I dropped it in a slow speed turn (turning around in the highway). Thankfully, there was no traffic and no one to laugh at me. I am only 5'8". It's too bad dealers won't allow you to test drive them.

I have 33 years riding all kinds of bikes. Even though I have learned to live with the extra height and top weight, I also realize now, I must stay on the road exclusively.

[805gregg]

Yeap; I dropped it in a slow speed turn (turning around in the highway). Thankfully, there was no traffic and no one to laugh at me. I am only 5'8". It's too bad dealers won't allow you to test drive them.

I have 33 years riding all kinds of bikes. Even though I have learned to live with the extra height and top weight, I also realize now, I must stay on the road exclusively.

Why stay on road? the only time you need to touch the ground is when you are stopped.

[ChuckS]

I'm 5'6", 30 inch inseam. I made my own links & lowered bike 3/4", carved some foam out of the stock 650 seat, and lowered (raised?) the forks. Bike performs flawlessly. I've been over some pretty evil stuff & haven't bottomed out yet.

It is a top heavy bike. Mine has been dropped 3-4 times. So far, only 1 broken turn signal and a few scratches.

My .02

ChuckS

[newweestromer]

I just bought a red 650 last week and I love it!! This is the first street bike that I have ever owned and have only ridden them several times before this. I don't have any experience with this stuff but I think that this is a very easy bike to ride and I have not had any problems with my 5' 9" frame.

I say go with the lowering if it makes you more comfortable and if it is not going to effect the handling of the bike any. I would think that your comfort would be the top priority for any bike.

Just sayin'!!

Raymond 8)

[Sheriff Of Smart Ass Cty.]

[quote="Night_Wolf"] Maybe this guy doesn't need to have his ego stroked as much as you do and will listen to reasonable advice :roll:

My first sportbike was a Hayabusa. I went 16,000 miles without a single incident. You can't generalize and predict one guy's outcome based on collective opinions. My wife is 5'10" and the Wee is her first bike. She may or may not drop it. I dropped my first bike. It was a H-D dyna wide glide. AGAIN I was told (by the majority) not to pursue this as a first bike.

So I think if the guy feels he can handle it, he should try it. As far as the advice from the other member to try it, I think he was telling him to proceed and be mindful. The comment didn't seem ego driven.

I'm not trying to prolong the argument, it's just my 2 cents. WAIT!! I'm still a noob to the forum, it only counts for a penny :oops:

[Night_Wolf]

The originator of the thread asked for comments and opinions, I voiced mine. I teach nOObs how to ride and will be directly responsible for 110 students this season and over 1100 in general as part of the larger group. Believe it or not if I had a dime for every nOOb who told me he knew WTF he was doing I could retire. Buy a lower bike learn to ride/get comforatble and then move up as at that point it won't be an issue. Experience and Long legs can overcome many obstacles.

BTW the Hayabusa wasn't your first bike, so it's totally different IMO :wink:

[quote="Night_Wolf"] Maybe this guy doesn't need to have his ego stroked as much as you do and will listen to reasonable advice :roll:

My first sportbike was a Hayabusa. I went 16,000 miles without a single incident. You can't generalize and predict one guy's outcome based on collective opinions. My wife is 5'10" and the Wee is her first bike. She may or may not drop it. I dropped my first bike. It was a H-D dyna wide glide. AGAIN I was told (by the majority) not to pursue this as a first bike.

So I think if the guy feels he can handle it, he should try it. As far as the advice from the other member to try it, I think he was telling him to proceed and be mindful. The comment didn't seem ego driven.

I'm not trying to prolong the argument, it's just my 2 cents. WAIT!! I'm still a noob to the forum, it only counts for a penny :oops:

[Sheriff Of Smart Ass Cty.]

I hear ya Night Wolf. My wife is just getting started too. She just got her certificate from Learning Curves Riding Schools. I've always been kind of a Kamikaze. :shock: Everybody needs to make their own choices. I'm sure doing what you do gives you a much different perspective from the rest of us. :)

My wife is 5'10". She can barely stand flat footed on the 650. We are going to have it lowered 1 " prior to delivery.

She is still learning. What is your opinion on having her learn the friction zone on grass? I thought this would be a good idea so if she does make an error, she and the bike won't hit pavement. This may sound like a stupid question but I've never owned a dual sport, and I would appreciate your input... :wink:

Take Care :D

[Columbo]

I'm 5'6", 30 inch inseam. I made my own links & lowered bike 3/4", carved some foam out of the stock 650 seat, and lowered (raised?) the forks. Bike performs flawlessly. I've been over some pretty evil stuff & haven't bottomed out yet.

It is a top heavy bike. Mine has been dropped 3-4 times. So far, only 1 broken turn signal and a few scratches.

My .02

ChuckS

I'm also 5'6"/30" inseam challenged and only 160 lbs without gear on. I can just barely get the tips of my boots on the ground. Not enough weight to compress the suspension much. NOT a secure feeling when there is loose stuff or uneven surfaces under foot (toe). I made 3/4" lowering links to try before buying nicely made links. I could get the ball of my feet on the ground after the install of the links. The front forks were already lowered about 12mm. After changing the links, the bike developed a sort of weaving motion at higher speeds, especially on sweeping turns. I guess the front end felt kind of light, but I did not like the handling for the little bit of footing I gained. Riding solo, I still did not touch down the OE centerstand (never changed the left peg feeler). I have to be very conscious of where I'm stopping, parking and turning around. I can't back the thing up or move it forward much! Tip-over's are a concern way more often than I've had with other bikes where footing was better. BTW, I if I have to give this bike up for ongoing medical reasons...that I just can't handle this type of bike, before I would look at a cruiser....I think I would look at a Burgman!!

[ChuckS]

Forgot to put in last post--
Dropped once before lowering. If the bike was a tad lower it would not have been a problem. The drops since have been on dirt or grass whilst doing something dumb-- not the bike's fault.

After lowering & caving out the seat, I can almost flat foot. Close enough, it's fine.

At high speeds (100 indicated), it does have the "weaving motion", both before & after lowering. My suspension preloads are set properly. I think I'm just too light for the stock susupension. Not a problem- I have no intention of riding at those speeds. At 90 ind, it tracks perectly.

ChuckS

[Night_Wolf]

For reference I'm 5'7" with a 32" inseam 165lbs and I can just get my feet flat with a healthy stretch of my legs :shock: I did lower my bike with Kouba Links, but it wasn't because I couldn't handle the height I wanted a wee bit shorter for loading passengers :lol: FWIW I have dropped my Strom as it's very top heavy when fully fueled and the luggage is loaded. I was doing very slow speed manouvers in the parking lot, stalled and down she went :shock: Many owners will drop the bike and it's Bravado to say it's NOT common. I do know of at least one bike sold from this very list with less than 100 miles on the odo. Too tall and top heavy for the lady to handle. That isn't a critism of anyone, but some people are too short and inexperienced for such a tall bike :(

My opinion is have hand guards installed and the engine guards too as the bike will fall and these products will protect the bodywork and the levers. BTW have a set of flush mount signals close by as they most likely will be toasted at the first drop. I don't recommend grass as the first place to ride the bike, as grass has little traction and gravel isn't much better. Ride it on pavement or get miles on a lower bike :? IMO this isn't a dual sport bike in the true sense of the word. Can it do gravel roads??? Hell Yea, but I would take my billet barge down gravel roads :P

Have your lady find the friction point and keep her eyes up looking where she wants to go (not 3 feet in front of the tire either) Concentrate on straight line stuff first, using the rear brake to slow the bike. At slow speeds DO NOT use any front BRAKE. Try & keep a steady throttle hand as that will make things easier as will a steady clutch hand (no pumping the lever or throttle) My slow speed is good enough I can come to a complete stop and not put my feet down and I have been told i should try Trials riding :shock: I wish her much luck, as she is about to bite off a big chunk of bike IMO.

Trust me I don't want nOObs to fail, but I am realistic due to teaching and remembering what I was like. I try to recommend capable bikes without recommending a bike that has to be replaced if the rider takes to it quickly. I won't own a BMW F650gs (due to costs) but I think it's a great nOOb bike if you have the cash and a great bike for an experienced rider without an EGO

I hear ya Night Wolf. My wife is just getting started too. She just got her certificate from Learning Curves Riding Schools. I've always been kind of a Kamikaze. :shock: Everybody needs to make their own choices. I'm sure doing what you do gives you a much different perspective from the rest of us. :)

My wife is 5'10". She can barely stand flat footed on the 650. We are going to have it lowered 1 " prior to delivery.

She is still learning. What is your opinion on having her learn the friction zone on grass? I thought this would be a good idea so if she does make an error, she and the bike won't hit pavement. This may sound like a stupid question but I've never owned a dual sport, and I would appreciate your input... :wink:

Take Care :D

[soboy]

I've been riding bikes for 33 years, I ride a non-lowered Wee and am 5'7.5, 29" inseam and I agree with Night Wolf about the Strom. Even the Wee is a handful for a new or re-entry rider who is short, as the bike is tall and top heavy, especially with a full tank of fuel. Lowering links will help, but they reduce ground and cornering clearance. The stock DL650 seat is the short seat, there is no optional shorter seat from Suzuki.

Another thing you can do that has not been mentioned is reduce the rear preload - this will lower the seat, especially if you back the preload close to zero. The Wee is a terrific bike, but if you are a noob or re-entry rider and can't flat foot it, there are better choices out there. It is a very easy bike to drop at slow speeds and when stopped.

[adv-biker]

Hi Friends,

I will be buying a used VSt650. I am 5-10 and 175pounds, my problem is not being able to flat foot on both sides at the same time. If I flat foot on one side, the other side ¼ of my foot base touches the ground. I would want to lower my bike about 1inch max. Can you please advise me the best way?

1) raising the front forks [thereby lowers the back fork and seat height]
2) Shaving off seat foam [on the sides or top?]
3) Adjusting the rear preload [by a turn knob?]
4) Custom links in the rear

Also, I want to add yellow front left and right sidepods to my blue 650. Can it be done? I mean will the 1000’s plastic fit the 2004 model 650? Please throw in some advice.

[water warrior]

Adv-biker

I am pretty sure 04 Wee's came in yellow. At least in the GWN, so the parts are available. Hope this helps and isn't a wild goose chase.

[zed88]

Hi Friends,

I will be buying a used VSt650. I am 5-10 and 175pounds, my problem is not being able to flat foot on both sides at the same time. If I flat foot on one side, the other side ¼ of my foot base touches the ground. I would want to lower my bike about 1inch max. Can you please advise me the best way?

1) raising the front forks [thereby lowers the back fork and seat height]
2) Shaving off seat foam [on the sides or top?]
3) Adjusting the rear preload [by a turn knob?]
4) Custom links in the rear



I'm also interested in what everyone thinks about this question. I've got a set of koubalinks on order to drop the rear some (not to worried about scraping the pegs, and when I do hit that riding level I"ll probably remove the links again).

Which is the best place to shave the seat for getting your legs down further. At stock settings with a small amount of preload on the back shock, and factory settings on the front I can get 1 foot entirely down, and all but the back 1/8-1/4" of my heel on my other foot down.

I figure the Koubalinks will give me another inch which will let me get both feet firmly planted on the ground. I'm 5'10" and have a 32" inseam. I was also wearing boots that had all the traction completly worn off of them at the time of my short rides. In the future I'll have nice leather boots with 1/4" of traction on the bottom again. I'd been waiting on getting my bike before getting new boots.

Any good writeups on adjusting the front and rear suspension for in town riding, the twisties, and interstate stability? Right now I"m keeping it stock so as not to monkey with anything important.

Thanks,
Eric

btw: Only 153lbs when wearing all my riding gear, so my wieght is pretty much negligible when it comes to having the bike sink underneath me.

[Ajaxthedog89]

I have been riding in one form or another for 32 years now, both on and off road. The Wee Strom is an excellent beginner’s bike in my opinion. It is both thrilling and capable, and reminds me of why I first started riding, it is exhilarating! I saw the comment about how many people buy and sell after 5,000 miles and truthfully I think that is not any kind of indicator, Lots of Harly's sell with around 1,000 miles on them and I don't think that is any kind of indicator on whether the bike is easy to drop or not. I dropped mine in a parking lot at a dead standstill, but only because the kickstand was not fully extended forward when I thought it was. I also have an ST1300 which I have never dropped in 3 years and 22,000 miles. I have had several dirt bikes and the usual reason I have dropped them is the reason why you'd drop any bike, bad footing on loose surface or some other silly reason, usually preventable if you think about it, and if you do you avoid those situations. It helps if you have more foot on the ground but also avoid loose gravel or other slippery surfaces.

I don't believe this is bike related as much as rider choice and experience. It is easy to get hurt, pay attention and avoid loose surfaces. This would be the same advice for any bike.

[water warrior]

In the last week I have almost dropped it 3 times due to a little loose gravel at stop signs on paved roads. The last one really hurt with the strain of holding up the bike and two bodies on board. The front wheel stopped on a stone as I put my foot down on another stone. My right foot went right and the wheel went left. There are just enough big truck around here to loose a little sample of their load to keep me on my toes. The SO suggested training wheels so we wouldn't fall over. My only answer was a smile and a headshake(no).

[soboy]

I've owned a lot of bikes since 1972 and the WeeStrom is the most top heavy, tallest, easiest-to-drop of them all. Back in the 1970's, this would would have been classified as a motorcycle for seriously advanced riders - funny, now that it is 30 years later, it has been classified as a good beginner's bike. Does that make any sense to you? New rider's skills (or lack thereof) have not changed in 30 years, what has changed is the lack of good, small displacement, light motorcycles. So, because there are so few under 500cc new bikes to choose from, the VStrom automatically becomes a good bike for a noob? Ridiculous. Take it from some one with a lot of experience on 2 wheels - unless you are tall enough to flat foot it, the VStrom is not the best choice for a new rider.

[water warrior]

Soboy

I can flatfoot it but I still have my moments of doubt. If the Strom was a little less tall it would be much more confidence inspiring. As it is, I wanted a bike about this size to be comfy on without going to a big powerful engine. The Wee does this for me quite nicely. It sure beats financing a Wing or some other big heavy bike.

[Night_Wolf]

No only a FEW people think it's a good beginner bike :roll: . I will agree that having long legs will HELP overcome the height. It's NOT a good beginner bike IMO and in the opinion of more senior instructors than I at the school I teach for.

I've owned a lot of bikes since 1972 and the WeeStrom is the most top heavy, tallest, easiest-to-drop of them all. Back in the 1970's, this would would have been classified as a motorcycle for seriously advanced riders - funny, now that it is 30 years later, it has been classified as a good beginner's bike. Does that make any sense to you? New rider's skills (or lack thereof) have not changed in 30 years, what has changed is the lack of good, small displacement, light motorcycles. So, because there are so few under 500cc new bikes to choose from, the VStrom automatically becomes a good bike for a noob? Ridiculous. Take it from some one with a lot of experience on 2 wheels - unless you are tall enough to flat foot it, the VStrom is not the best choice for a new rider.

[zed88]

No only a FEW people think it's a good beginner bike :roll: . I will agree that having long legs will HELP overcome the height. It's NOT a good beginner bike IMO and in the opinion of more senior instructors than I at the school I teach for.

I've owned a lot of bikes since 1972 and the WeeStrom is the most top heavy, tallest, easiest-to-drop of them all. Back in the 1970's, this would would have been classified as a motorcycle for seriously advanced riders - funny, now that it is 30 years later, it has been classified as a good beginner's bike. Does that make any sense to you? New rider's skills (or lack thereof) have not changed in 30 years, what has changed is the lack of good, small displacement, light motorcycles. So, because there are so few under 500cc new bikes to choose from, the VStrom automatically becomes a good bike for a noob? Ridiculous. Take it from some one with a lot of experience on 2 wheels - unless you are tall enough to flat foot it, the VStrom is not the best choice for a new rider.

Ok we all agree that we disagree. The vstrom in some peoples opinion is not a good first bike, and in others it is. Everybodys situation is different.

However back to the actual topic on hand. My question is also above. Thanks


"Thank you for your opinions. If I may re-direct this thread, my questions were not whether or not this is an appropriate bike, but rather a) would you choose to get closer to the ground via the lower seat or the lowering links, and b) does the bike tend to sag a little as it gets broken in.

Your thoughts are appreciated. IF I choose to go with this bike, it will be with the information gained here and elsewhere, and I accept responsibility for the decision.

Tim"

[ziggr]

No only a FEW people think it's a good beginner bike :roll: . I will agree that having long legs will HELP overcome the height. It's NOT a good beginner bike IMO and in the opinion of more senior instructors than I at the school I teach for.

I'm a beginner. I only had 8 hours riding experience (the MSF course) when I bought my Wee. 4 weeks and 600 miles later, I'm quite happy with the bike. (I know, I know: post pictures and introductions to the Stromtroopers forum! Soon, I promise!)

But I've seen a few people mention that they don't really recommend a Wee for beginners, so I'm wondering what I should be paying attention to as I learn to control this thing.

Is it the bike height or size? Because yeah, I could see that being a problem. Except that I'm 6'10" (208cm) tall. I can stand on my two flat feet, straddling the bike, with several inches of daylight between the bike's seat and my own.

Is it the jerky throttle? Because after 600 miles, I'm still horrible at feathering the clutch when crossing that "no power/whole lotta power" threshold on the throttle. But jerking forward and backward makes me look like an idiot, and humiliation is a great motivator when learning.

Is it the buffeting? Yeah, I feel the maelstrom of wind kicking my shoulders around when I get up to speed. It makes control a little trickier, but if I hang on with my legs and relax my arms and my attitude, I can get through it. Works better than coffee for a morning wake-up.

I've been putting off parking lot practice until I got my Givi crash bars. They came in this week, as did my Ride Like a Pro DVD, so I'm off to the parking lot. Maybe then I'll learn firsthand why some folks don't recommend V-Strom for rookies.

--Z
Zig Zichterman
Red '06 DL650

[Big B]

I guess that I am still trying to figure out the statements about the Stroms being very "top heavy'! I need some PROFESSIONAL opinions please! :roll: Hmmm....ST1300, GoldWings, most Harleys or any other cruiser, several of the BMW's etc!!! Guess that I would define these as top heavy bikes, not the Stroms. Stroms are TALL and long bikes, but VERY narrow! Whenever I switch off with any of my riding buddies, they always make the comment of how light and flickable my bike feels. When I get my Strom back after riding another bike, it pretty much feels like a "toy" compared to allot of bikes. Guess that it depends on what kind of bikes that you grew up riding, and have gotten used to. I have ridden allot of heavy and big bikes....therefore the Stroms are an absolute dream to ride. This "opinionfest" could go on and on and on! I know that there are ALLOT worse starter bikes out there, we at least know that is a fact! :wink:

[MonkeyGrass]

Holy Cow!

Guys, can we actually get on topic for this poor guy, PLEASE?!

He never asked if we thought the Wee Strom is a good beginner bike. He never asked for anyone's opinions (learned or not, instructor OR rider) and he's repeatedly stated that HE is going to make the decision on whether or not the Wee is the right bike for him. Let the man make up his own mind. If he likes the bike, and doesn't drop it, good for him! If he buys it and drops it once or twice getting the hang of it, well, he was warned! What he needs, is real world info on WHAT WORKS BEST TO LOWER THE BIKE. Not a dissertation/discussion/arguement on IF the bike is right for him.

Now to attempt to actually give this guy some information he can use to make an informed decision:

Personally, I don't think doing anything with the seat is going to be enough for you... I'd go with the lowering links, you AREN'T going to be scraping pegs for a long long while if you are just starting out street riding. The 650 seat is already the lower of the two, and the same as the Suzuki Low Touring seat that's advertised. Save your money - get the lowering links, raise the forks, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you have to work with. I have a VERY short riding buddy who couldn't flat foot a CBR600F4i (yes, I am serious - he's like 4'11" ;) ) he didn't listen to me when I told him repeatedly "you are gonna need to get some dogbones and lower that thing". Well, after dropping it 4 times in 2 weeks (low-speed, hills, gravel, driveway drops - all stupid nOOB/height problems, like Night_Wolf is warning of) he finally says to me "I think I need to lower this bike a little bit" :shock: REALLY?!?! Great idea, bud. He lowered the rear 1 1/2" and the front to match, and the bike fits him like a glove. He loves the lower center of gravity, it rails corners like a dream (well, it IS a CBR600!) and he hasn't dropped it since.

Seriously, who actually uses all 6.8 inches of suspension travel on this bike? :lol: Dropping it an inch still gives almost 6 full inches of travel - WAY more than almost any other street bike.

I was only *slightly* uncomfortable on the BigStrom when I got it (5'10" - 32" inseam) I traded out for the 650 seat with a taller WeeStrom owner, and raised the fork tubes. Now, with my riding boots on, I can comfortable put my feet down flat. It IS a bitch to move around under leg-power, backing in and out of garages and parking spaces are the worst part of owning this bike. But that's a small price to pay for what it gives back in return!

Good luck, and hopefully some people will post back with helpful suggestions and their experiences lowering the bike, instead of continuing this senseless debate of "who knows more about who drops bikes" :roll:

[Big B]

Your right Monkeygrass!! Although I still feel that he has gotten PLENTY of suggestions, facts, figures, and personal experience from others....to allow some "off topic" yipping and yapping! :wink: He'll make the right decison for "him", and that is all that matters. I'm also posting, cause I'm bored due to it raining here all weekend. :) If we ALWAYS wanted to stay completely on topic for every thread. I know the perfect "other" Vstrom forum! That is one of the MANY reasons as to why this is THE BEST Strom forum. If you look back at some of my other replys to this topic....I stated to go with the lowering links and maybe a different seat....perfect bike for him! He'll get the WeeStrom, cause he is ready to be assimulated, by the Strom Pod People! 8) Time for some applause.....I'M DONE HERE!!!!

[Night_Wolf]

You may be a beginner rider, but even I'm not that stupid to suggest you start on a tin y bike. You can overcome the height problem as I'm assuming you have at least a 34+ inseam. Long legs can overcome an awful lot. You are almost as limited by how tall you are as some folks by how short they are. There are very few bikes I'm guessing that fit you with your long legs.

Got news for you on the Jerky throttle. It doesn't matter what bike you buy, until you "learn" how to ride, you will not be smooth. Taking MSF or CSC (in Canada) doesn't mean you know how to ride. It means you know enough to safely get yer carcass around a parking lot. The real learning begins when you take delivery of your new motorcycle and start riding around the neighbourhood. IMO it takes at least 1000 miles on any new bike (new to you especially) to learn the sweet spots on your bike.

Keep getting out and putting some miles under yer butt 8) you'll do fine as you seem to have a good attitude.



I'm a beginner. I only had 8 hours riding experience (the MSF course) when I bought my Wee. 4 weeks and 600 miles later, I'm quite happy with the bike. (I know, I know: post pictures and introductions to the Stromtroopers forum! Soon, I promise!)

But I've seen a few people mention that they don't really recommend a Wee for beginners, so I'm wondering what I should be paying attention to as I learn to control this thing.

Is it the bike height or size? Because yeah, I could see that being a problem. Except that I'm 6'10" (208cm) tall. I can stand on my two flat feet, straddling the bike, with several inches of daylight between the bike's seat and my own.

Is it the jerky throttle? Because after 600 miles, I'm still horrible at feathering the clutch when crossing that "no power/whole lotta power" threshold on the throttle. But jerking forward and backward makes me look like an idiot, and humiliation is a great motivator when learning.

I've been putting off parking lot practice until I got my Givi crash bars. They came in this week, as did my Ride Like a Pro DVD, so I'm off to the parking lot. Maybe then I'll learn firsthand why some folks don't recommend V-Strom for rookies.

--Z
Zig Zichterman
Red '06 DL650

[Qstech]

5'6 1/2" here with a 29" inseam.


:D No problems handlin the 'strom! I was pretty confident riding my v-strom around at stock height... My old man made me ride it around at the stock height before lowering it. I now understand why he made me do it - to build confidence on the bike at it's original height, so that when I lowered it, it would be even easier for me. And he was right!

It's now lowered with kouba links....huge difference! Before the links, I was barely able get the balls of my feet to touch the ground, but being so short and having a leverage disadvantage, I wasn't able "duck walk" the bike proficiently. I always had to get off and push/pull. Now, if i really lean and dig my heels/toes i can manage the bike while on the seat. however, I feel more confident standing next to the bike and having it lean on my hips while i maneuver it around.

Of course it's more difficult for us shorter people. I like challenges :twisted:

here's a good read :

Keep yourself out of situations where you need to flatfoot. Backing up is the perfect example of this. Can't back out of a parking spot? Park forward. Overshot a stop line? Start braking sooner. Have to catch the bike after a sudden stop? Brake smoother. Stopped on a slope and can only put down one foot? Plan ahead and decide which foot goes down. Can't reach the ground over a low spot? Don't stop over the low spot! We have no choice but to make up for lack of foot with planning and skill. And remember, everyone, even flatfooters, drops their bikes sometimes.


from this site : http://www.nebcom.com/noemi/moto/sbl.faq.html

[mokusbajusz]

Well done MonkeyGrass!
I absolutely agree with you in every aspect of your post.

I would add something regarding adv-biker's question yet.
As we all know there are "plenty" of ways to achieve "flatfooting". Every method has advantages and disadvantages. Our mission is to give adv-biker our advices and he will decide which one matches his needs the best.

The more common ways of solving short inseam problems:

1. lower seat (modified stock, or custom made, etc)
Plus: improve flatfooting, lower center of gravity, no change in off-road capabilities and suspension geometry
Minus: regress in comfort, legs more to crook, high cost

2. lowering link
Plus: improve flatfooting, lower center of gravity, no change in seating position, relative low cost
Minus: slightly reduces off-road capabilities, suggested to raise front forks to keep suspension geometry, limited use of center- and sidestand, easier peg scratch

Correct me friends if I was wrong.

[CAStromer]

Nicely done Balazs - provides the benefits of the two main alternatives well. Also, when was the last time you saw the average guy flat foot a man-sized dirt bike? The DL1000 is after all a sport-tourer with dirt bike clearance. You just have to be sure as to which foot to put down when you are stopping.

[Littledog]

Man, some of you treat your opinions are FACTS. I don't have a ton of posts (yet) but I have been riding for about 30 years.

To the original poster, didn't want you to miss the one piece of information that you actually asked about that all these "experts", except one, forget to tell you: You already have the low seat on the DL650, so the only seat option is to shave it down or get a custom made one.

I don't think you need to be able to "flatfoot". I have never had a bike I could flatfoot! Try the lowering links and drop the front end and with skill and practice and patience you will be totally comfortable. Practice in the parking lot a lot! Enjoy your bike.

[Vstromper]

Did you think about something like this instead?

http://www.rivithead.com/images/product_large/COMBAT-208.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course then you might need to adjust some controls for clearance. :wink:

[Just Bill]

Tim,
I am 5'8" with a 28 inch inseam (sad, I know, but true). I have a Wee Strom with the Suzuki gel seat which is the same height as the 1000 seat (+ 1 inch over the 650 seat). With the stock seat, I could handle the bike while stopped even though I was on my toes. With the gel seat, I cannot. I raised the forks about 3/4 inch and added the Kouba Link (lowers the bike 1 1/8 inch). This has worked fine for me. I can tell no difference in the ride. I have bottomed out on one drive I use but it is an extreme "hump." I do not ride dirt, only pavement and some occasional gravel and farm roads. No problem. I do ride somewhat aggressively at times and have never drug a peg. The edge of my boot sole has touched the road a few times on left hand curves with high center areas as are frequently found but no problem. If you have to have better ground contact, I recommend the Kouba Link. I prefer the gel seat for butt comfort and the fact that what legs I do have are less bent during long days in the saddle. The trade off of using the Kouba is worth it.

Who ever said it is right, the 650 seat "is" the low seat for the 1000.

Good luck.

Just Bill

PS: By the way, I have no opinion on whether or not the Strom is a beginners bike. :>)

[Bunker]

Yes, we did cover a plethora of topics on this thread, did we not? :) For anyone still interested, here's what I ended up doing:

- installed KoubaLinks
- raised forks about 15mm
- removed the little rubber bumpers from the underside of the seat.

I'm happy with the result. It's surprising what a big difference a relatively small change makes. It will also allow me to add a taller seat, like the gel seat, for more comfort in the butt and knees when doing longer trips.

Tim

[red_sa]

Nice to see you made the mods, and are enjoying the bike better Bunker.
A good thing, is that links and fork adjustments, are easily reversed later.
I did the links and forks thing, and love it.
Now when I puul up to stop on a loose surface, I have more confidence in not dropping the bike. A more confident/comfortable ride is always a more enjoyable one....

Mind you, the pic of the "boots" by Vstromper, had me thinking :lol:

[skiphunt]

I've heard this is a good option for a "short guy"


http://www.cherrypoppins.com/catalog/3034-smooth-latex-extension-black-p-19277.html


:lol:

[Vstromper]

I've heard this is a good option for a "short guy"


http://www.cherrypoppins.com/catalog/3034-smooth-latex-extension-black-p-19277.html


:lol:

That's just wrong. :wink:

[skiphunt]

I've heard this is a good option for a "short guy"


http://www.cherrypoppins.com/catalog/3034-smooth-latex-extension-black-p-19277.html


:lol:

That's just wrong. :wink:

Yes, it was "wrong".. sorry, couldn't help the great set-up. ;-)

[vancer]

I have to keep in mind the ease of dropping the V-strom. Been riding for 40 years and find this machine very easy to get out of sort if you stop quick and have your leg in the wrong position. Never droped my ZRX1200 (485 LBs dry) but have twice introduced my Dl650 to the asphalt. :(

[DrDale]

I'm 5'6" and now have 1700 miles on my new DL 650. Yeah...it's a bit tall when stopping, just takes a little technique. I don't really try to touch both feet down, usually just the left. Slide slightly to that side and touch down with confidence. Actually having a passenger on makes it a bit easier since the additional rearward weight adds to the sag - even if you've bumped up the shock preload. I can see a possibility of a tip over in certain situations and will probably order the Givi engine guards as a precaution.

BTW, I've ridden dirt for 30 years, and those bikes are quite tall. I have a 04 Honda CRF-250X and that is a true dirt bike, the V-Strom is not. It's a street bike that can handle dirt roads and some mild 2-tracks better than a cruiser or crotch-rocket, that's all.

I don't think the V-strom is an ideal beginner bike. My last bike was a 83 Honda VT-500FT Ascot. Short wheelbase and seat height. Great to get back into riding the street. I sold it to another dirt bike buddy that's just getting into some street riding. That said, the V-Strom is a much better bike in any situation except the rare case of very low speed turn/hill, ect. It handles like a sport bike. I really love it!

[revel22]

Obviously this is not the best bike for short people. It has a high center of gravity which makes it tippier when stopped--especially when a crosswind is pounding on you. I am 6'2" so its easy for me to flat foot both feet at a stop. Maybe lowering links would be the best bet for someone with short inseam who really wants a Vstrom. I have even thought about doing it on mine just to get the center of gravity lower.

Although this wasn't the original question, I don't think this is a good beginners bike at all. A beginner needs a relatively light bike with a low center of gravity to gain confidence. I'm with N wolf on this and I've owned more than a dozen bikes over past 20 years.

[oldgoat]

Bunker

In late on this.

I bought a DL1000 knowing it was too tall for me.

Put greatly longer links in + a 650 seat but was never totally confident.

I tipped over with it in April & sold it 4 weeks ago.

Don't buy a bike that you have to ask these sort of questions about :(

With a full gas tank it is really top heavy.

[water warrior]

I can flat foot my Wee with the added height of the gel seat but just ordered links to lower it. There are just certain times when the bike is too tall for me and I hate picking it up.

[mokusbajusz]

Did you think about something like this instead?

http://www.rivithead.com/images/product_large/COMBAT-208.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course then you might need to adjust some controls for clearance. :wink:

...and also adjust his make-up. 8)

[sdorleans]

I have a wee-strom and yes, it's my first bike and yes I think it's fine as a first motorcycle IF you understand that first bikes are sometimes dropped. I dropped mine twice the first week, then an oops on the laneway where it rolled off the stand, and another ooops where I braked too hard on the front second guessing someone who was thinking of crossing.. all newbie oops. The bike survived though the turn signals didn't. Since then I've put over 12000km on it, and it just gets better.

That said, since I'm only 5'8", I'd like to get a little more of my feet on the ground (flat foot one side, balls of feet both sides) and I don't want to go to lowering links. I've heard that there is another seat for the 650 that brings down the height, but when I try to find info I get conflicting information. Anyone want to clear the confusion?

Sue

[hbonser]

Geez guys, what's up with the dissension among the ranks?

Unsuspecitng poster wants to know HOW to lower a bike and look what he got!

I thought "discussion" with my wife whether to pick up a gallon of 2% or fat free was pointless... Thanks for adding some relevant controversy to my day.

The way I see it is a smaller or shorter person of the same riding ability will have less leverage, strength, whatever, to deal with a wayward bike while putting it on the sidestand or if they choose to add it, a centerstand.

I have the opposite problem, I am very tall. I got a Bandit 1200s last year to get back into riding, and the only time it went over was in an incredible wind burst where it toppled off the sidestand. Most folks would not recommend that bike either for a newbie or someone like myself who grew up on mopeds and 125's.

I needed the bike to fit, period. Whatever I do with the performance or lack there of is up to me. Found the V of my dreams and snatched it right up 3 weeks ago. DL1K3 Yellow with all the good stuff already added.

With that said, the B12 is a lot easier to deal with putting on the stand and maneuvering around the garage even though it's a bit heavier than the V.

Anyway... Fast forward...

However you set the bike up to lower it is a moot point. The important thing is lowering it makes it fit you. That to me makes it the right bike, because it FITS.

Good luck with the lowering, I have no clue where to begin telling you how to do it. I ride it tall and proud!

Later...

[jccc]

I also own a dl-650,i'm 5'8" 30 inseam, i've left the bike stock and have no problems with seat height, i'm able to get the balls of my feet on the ground,i normally stop with only my left on the ground.
The only time it gets a little tough is when there a steep incline and i'm having to make a sharp turn from a stop,for me a little rear brake and a little throttle and off i go,take your time and practice,practice,practice and you should be comfortable in time.