Is the dealer trying to jive me?

[Stromin'Nroman]

I went in today for a new tire.

I've got 13,550 miles on the bike with a variety of riding including dusty dirt roads stream crossings, salty roads and florida salt air for a week.

I figured since they've got the rear wheel off, why not replace the front sprocket with a 16 toother? Hey they had one in stock, 20 clams.

Then I asked if they had a chain for the bike, too. Sho' nuff, 86 bucks.

Here's where it gets funky. The service guy says that if I replace the front sprocket and chain, I need to replace the rear sprocket ($46) or eveything will wear out prematurely. An evesdropping saleman concurred (That's when I got really suspicious).

I said if you can do it all now, fine, do it.

They couldn't. They need to order the rear sprocket, it'll be a few days. Well, what would I save in labor for having the wheel off already. Nothing. It's ala carte.

So they just put on the tire and I went home.

Here are my three questions:

1. How important is it to replace both sprockets and chain as a unit at almost 14,000 miles given my ride hard/put up wet maintenace program? (there are a couple of links that don't straighten out completely on their own.)

2. Shouldn't there be a labor cost savings if half of the second job is done by doing the first job at the same time?

3. How many beers, cusswords and Foghat LP's should I budget for the double-sprocket job if I do it myself? The dealer wants $75.

Any help or smart-ass remarks will be appreciated.

[kneedrachen]

I went in today for a new tire.

1. How important is it to replace both sprockets and chain as a unit at almost 14,000 miles given my ride hard/put up wet maintenace program? (there are a couple of links that don't straighten out completely on their own.)

2. Shouldn't there be a labor cost savings if half of the second job is done by doing the first job at the same time?

3. How many beers, cusswords and Foghat LP's should I budget for the double-sprocket job if I do it myself? The dealer wants $75.

Any help or smart-ass remarks will be appreciated.

1. 14k on a chain and sprockets can or can't be average, how often did you lube and adjust your chain? I lube after every ride, and I'm pretty anal about chain adjustment. I've gotten 20k out of a chain and steel sprockets on a smaller displacement bike. You also have to consider material- steel, aluminum, etc. And yes, replace everything at once, irregular wear will result. Why put a new chain on crappy sprockets? Why put fresh sprockets on a stretched chain?

2. Labor is labor, they'll charge either way, it's a job you can do yourself, trust me. I've done it. Easy, peasy. The hardest part is unbending the washer if it is bent over to lock it and then making sure you get all the spacers etc in the right order when putting the rear wheel on.

3. Foghat will just f$^& the job up. Don't listen to foghat. Listen to something smoothing like, oh, enya or yanni. You'll get the job because you'll be so relaxed. Kidding, kidding. Just plan plenty of time, lay out a clean WHITE cloth (parts like washers will stand out)to put the parts down on and you'll be set. This place is a great resource.

[bogey78]

I don't know if it is true, but I've always heard not to put on a new chain with worn sprockets. That may or may not be correct, but the service guy and salesman didn't just make it up. Like I said, a new chain may work fine on old sprockets, but I would probably get new ones for peace of mind. Of course I would put them on myself, I don't trust my bike to anyone else. Especially someone trying to get it out the door as fast as possible.

bogey78

[Koinz]

Didn't seem they were trying to burn you, but they could've offered a break on the labor to keep your business, after all, they are running a business and they need to make some profit.

[GrayWolf]

Horse poop. If you can't see wear on the rear sprocket then don't replace it. My sprockets lasted until my third chain. My second chain on those old sprockets lasted longer then the first one. At around 30k I put on my third chain and swapped sprockets.

If you end up staggering your sprocket changes that might be a good thing. Also mail order yourself a JT rear sprocket and save yourself 25 bucks.

-GW

[Big B]

You can "usually" wear out 2 fronts to 1 rear sprocket, the front takes most of the abuse. I see no logic in spending 100 dollars plus on a new chain, and not also replace at minimum the front sprocket. There are many things in life that you can get extra life out of, but is it really worth it? Change the rear sprocket yourself...it is easy to do, the front can be a challenge.

And yes.....worn teeth on a sprocket will jack up a new expensive chain.

[Jblk9695]

What GrayWolf said and a little tip, use a chisel to move the bent washer on the front sprocket nut a little and then use a flat punch to flatten it out enough to remove the nut, do this first before any thing else and have some one stand on the rear break pedal so you can loosen the nut, don't use the transmission to try and hold the shaft from turning. After that its a piece of cake, but make sure you have some good hand cleaner handy:D

Jerry

[Stromin'Nroman]

make sure you have some good hand cleaner handy:D

Jerry

That's what I find most appealing about the whole thing.

[Stromin'Nroman]

You can "usually" wear out 2 fronts to 1 rear sprocket

Given that the front sprocket is a third the circumference of the rear, this makes absolutely perfect sense to me and is probably what made me feel like the dealer might be trying to hose me. On the other hand, I also understand that they don't want to deal with a callback if the new chain gets chewed up in 2000 miles because they didn't replace a sprocket.

I'm quite happy with the dealer, and I don't mind paying a little more for the parts and long as I don't feel like I'm being screwed. I know it'snot easy running a small independent business and I like keeping my money local.

I'm quite comfortable doing the wrenching for ths job, it will require making my son clean the garage, rounding up my wayward tools for the privelegdge (I'll spell it any way I please) of helping me.

Maybe if it rains like it's supposed to tomorrow I'll take a look at the front sprocket and post some pics. On the other hand, my wife said if it's not raining too hard she'd like to ride because she really needs to gain more wet weather riding experience.

Then I'll shoot pictures sunday while she's polishing her chrome.

Thanks a lot for all your help, I really appreciate you guys.

[Dirt_Dad]

Please consider something other than Foghat. The last thing you want to create is a "Slow Ride."

(you really lofted that one over the plate, can't believe I'm the first to swing at it)

[Stromin'Nroman]

Please consider something other than Foghat. The last thing you want to create is a "Slow Ride."

(you really lofted that one over the plate, can't believe I'm the first to swing at it)

You're just admitting to be of a "certain age".

I never heard of Foghat until I borrowed my Granddad's Buick last week and accidently turned on the 8-Track player while trying to work the defroster.

(Historical note: the 8-Track player was an early precursor to the I-Pod and instead of silicone chips, it employed vacuum tubes to power the 5 HP electric motor which, in turn, turned a small collection of large cogs and small pinions to run an endless loop of magnetic tape through a series of sharp blades and tape heads which enabled the listener to enjoy the left stereo channel of one song while being annoyed by the right stereo channel of another song and the tape hiss of the entire recording session compressed into a five-minute track with a 20-minute bass guitar solo. On occasion and with the correct amount of pharmecutical inspiriation and if the songs were in complimentary musical keys with similar tempos, whole new songs would be created and released on "Greatest Hit" packages each time the record companies inveted new incompatible recording formats with slightly better musical fidelity and smaller packaging, evolving eventually into no packaging whatsover creating massive layoffs for album cover artists who eventually unleashed their talents on "art in public place projects". This is how mashups and graffiti were invented.)

Next week, the Echoplex and it's role in the prevalence of ADDHD in Hip-Hop artists.

[Dirt_Dad]

You're just admitting to be of a "certain age".

I never heard of Foghat until I borrowed my Granddad's Buick last week and accidently turned on the 8-Track player while trying to work the defroster.

[SIZE="2"](Historical note: the 8-Track player was an early precursor to the I-Pod and instead of silicone chips,

I was a big Foghat fan many years ago. I never actually owned an 8-track. But I definitely remember listening to them. A great feature was the way it changed tracks. So enjoyable the way it would fade down a song right in the middle, change tracks, then fade back. It's amazing 8-tracks ever had a market. Just shows how far people would go to have portable music.

My 16 year old daughter is into buying vinyl albums now. Somehow I don't predict the same enthusiasm for 8-tracks.

[garandman]

Sprocket wear is harder to measure than chain wear. Most people just eyeball it.
If either one is worn beyond service limits, you'll be replacing both.

"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

[mike1952]

I was a big Foghat fan many years ago. I never actually owned an 8-track. But I definitely remember listening to them. A great feature was the way it changed tracks. So enjoyable the way it would fade down a song right in the middle, change tracks, then fade back. It's amazing 8-tracks ever had a market. Just shows how far people would go to have portable music.

My 16 year old daughter is into buying vinyl albums now. Somehow I don't predict the same enthusiasm for 8-tracks.

I traded my 8 track (mini 8 in the glove box) for a cassette. I got tired of the crosstalk. Remember crosstalk? What is cool is my 17 year old son is into the music I listened to and still do. He leaves his cds in my car. Great deal.

[Dirt_Dad]

I traded my 8 track (mini 8 in the glove box) for a cassette. I got tired of the crosstalk. Remember crosstalk? What is cool is my 17 year old son is into the music I listened to and still do. He leaves his cds in my car. Great deal.

Same here, daughter is very unimpressed with the music of today. She wants all my stuff. I'll be driving down the road and old (like 1982 old) Iron Maiden comes on the satellite radio and she's turning it up and singing along. I don't expect anyone to know those songs. Warms a dad's heart. Her musical taste are wider than mine, but I've never had to yell at her to turn that stuff down. I'm usually looking for more volume.

I didn't listen to enough 8-track to know about crosstalk. I do know it was technology that deserved to die.

[Stromin'Nroman]

Years ago my daughter had a boyfriend who liked Pink Floyd. They found my LP's and Turntable and proceeded to destroy a stylus.

Later, she discovered a box of 8-Tracks: Seger, Foreigner, Stones, Return to Forever (!?!?!), Jim Croce, Grand Funk, Peter Frampton and, of course some, Zappa. We dug out an old player and began to appreciate the sonic mud of that desevedly maligned music format. DD, you didn't miss much. Crosstalk is when you hear the Right Channel of "Feels Like the First Time" and Left Channel of "Dirty White Boy" at one time.

Cheers, I'm headed out for a spin before the rain arrives.

[Dirt_Dad]

Crosstalk is when you hear the Right Channel of "Feels Like the First Time" and Left Channel of "Dirty White Boy" at one time.

Cheers, I'm headed out for a spin before the rain arrives.

I was guessing it was something like that.

Enjoy the ride. Wish I could do the same. I sprained my knee last weekend on my dirt bike and now I'm just sitting around watching everyone else ride. I expect it to be better in a week or two, so it's just a mild irritant right now.

This getting older stuff really has some downsides. But it beats the alternative. Be safe, have fun.

[GeoBiker]

I'm just thinkin' about how my old 8-track would look mounted on the Strom dash with a couple of shelf mounted speakers to each side.. Kinda like a Goldwing?

Oh, about sprockets.. At the Tellico Plains gathering last year, I started to experience a rather annoying 'clunk' coming from the left side.. Yep, I shoulda not tried to push it beyond the 20k mi. mark. Front sprocket was going, along with the original chain. I was able to make it home OK, but I did replace the whole drive train. I figured another $40 or so was rather cheap insurance since everything was apart anyway. But I do think it was really unnecessary to replace the rear sprocket.

[randyo]

the one time I didn't replace my sprockets with the chain, the new chain wore out fast in like 8000 miles

I replace as a set, but that's my experience for my riding style, I say the dealer was giving good advice but YMMV

[jackpiner57]

Like randyo, I always replace both sprockets with a new chain. The front is always worn out and the rear shows wear. Always a set.

[Keith Falkner]

If you think about it, the teeth of the sprockets get wear on one side when the engine is making the bike go, and wear on the other side when you gear down and the rear wheel is making the engine go around.

I would guess the ratio is 95% - 5%, or even more lopsided.

I think a rear sprocket, turned around, will function like a brand new sprocket.

Understand, that I did NOT turn my rear sprocket around. Instead, I replaced chain and both sprockets at the same time. But I still have my original rear sprocket, and I really think it will get another chance to be part of my Wee-Strom. Meanwhile, it makes an adequate gong.

Has anyone reversed a rear sprocket?

Keith

[limobob]

I replace my sprockets when they show wear. Usually every other chain or so.
I get 20-25K on my chains. I tend to adjust on the loose side w/ the suspension compressed. Works for me. BTW, you havent lived till you have heard" Frankenstein" By the Edgar Winter Group in Quadraphonic 8-track!!!!!:p

[Stromin'Nroman]

I replace my sprockets when they show wear. Usually every other chain or so.
I get 20-25K on my chains. I tend to adjust on the loose side w/ the suspension compressed. Works for me. BTW, you havent lived till you have heard" Frankenstein" By the Edgar Winter Group in Quadraphonic 8-track!!!!!:p

Thanks for the info.

Perhaps there'll be a re-release on DVD in Surround Sound.

[Cpope]

To make your chain and sprockets last longer ride with Keith Falkner, while on the Four for Texas trip Keith oiled our chains each and every day. The only problem he could not find the chain on Lou's Kaz 1400. :) Thanks Keith, I am sure my chain will last much longer and save me money. Thanks again for the coffee made fresh each morning also. :)

[Keith Falkner]

I'll oil your chain tomorrow morning, if I can catch up with you! :D

Keith

[Stromin'Nroman]

I'll oil your chain tomorrow morning, if I can catch up with you! :D

Keith

Great, I can plan my next trip to Miami via Sarasota.
That way I can leave the can of lube at home and use that space for some Jameson's Irish Whiskey instead.

Now, regarding this chain thing. It's almost becoming an exisitential crisis for me. How much of a motorcyclists am I if I can't even change my own chain and sprockets.

So, I've commited myself. Now I need a shop manual. I'd like to purchase a legal copy online, any recommendations.

Moderator: Note legal copy, I have been on the hurtin' side of copyright infringement and have no problem getting the bona fide version. As long as I don't have to buy it from the dealer and look into his sad eyes as he swipes my credit card.

[cbrxxcess]

I always replace my chain and sprockets as a set.

[Stromin'Nroman]

I found myself in the area late Friday afternoon and went to the parts counter at my local dealer to pick up my chain set. I called my son at work to ask him to bring home the requisite tools; torque wrench, gigantic socket, etc. so that we do the install on Saturday.

The service guy comes over to me with the parts and asked if I'd like them installed. I asked if this could be done now. "Sure, it'll take about an hour and cost $75."

So I agreed and went next door to Hot Dog world for a Krautdog Kombo with a Chochlate Malted Shake.

I later learned from the parts guy that business is really down and the only model they expect to sell out of is the V-Strom. They have two sexy flat-black Wees (non ABS) and a Vee on th floor right now

I had fully intended to do the work myself, but was happy to let a locally-owned dealer do the work for me.

Thanks for all your input and help, now someone by his bikes.

Norm

[Dirt_Dad]

I later learned from the parts guy that business is really down and the only model they expect to sell out of is the V-Strom. They have two sexy flat-black Wees (non ABS) and a Vee on th floor right now
I had fully intended to do the work myself, but was happy to let a locally-owned dealer do the work for me.

I think that's the story everywhere. I bought (stole) a used Honda CRF450 a few weeks ago. I've known that sales guy for years. He told me they are braced for a very bad selling year. Seems to be feast or famine in the bike business.

[jerrmy]

Is it Dal-Kawa or MR Cycles?

[Stromin'Nroman]

It's Dal Kawa.