Search for the grail of helmet speakers

[bobosmite]

I ride with ear plugs (Home Depot, 20db), but I like to listen to music when I ride. My audio setup includes an ampli-rider that can really push out some power. With the wind and plugs, I have to crank the volume to hear the audio. I've tried the $20 HelmetAudio style speakers and they blow...as in blow out with the volume maxed. There are other more expensive helment speakers, but are they strong enough? http://www.bikeintercom.com/products/x1.htm

[Compared To What?]

Like you I tried the "el Cheapo" helmet speakers and pretty much came to the same conclusion. I finally dug a set of old but decent sounding Sony (Pre-China assembly) headphones. After removing all of the "mount on your head" plastic crapola I did a minor amount of soldering to get the correct 3.5 Audio female lead connected and installed the bare speakers in my helmet. About an hours worth of time invested in the disassembly (of the headset) and the install and I'm a happy camper.

[Lono]

I use some custom made in-ear headphones that were made from molds of my ear. They block noise and the headphones inside of them are the same make as the ones musicians use as stage monitors. I can roll at a much lower volume, saving what little is left of my hearing. I got them at the int'l motorcycle show a few years ago. At 300ish bucks, they were pricey, but worth it. The price has come down a bit now... http://www.earinc.com/p2-iplugz.php

[bobosmite]

I've used speakers in 3 different helmets...HJC, Nolan, & Scorpion. The trick to wearing ear plugs at the same time is to get the speaker right on the ear canal and the full-face Scorpion is giving me grief. Right now I'm fighting with a set of stripped down Sony headphone speakers. Ear plugs are cheap enough, maybe I can modify a set that works to let more sound in. Hmmm...

[xrmattaz]

I'm happy with my Etymotics ER6i ear buds, along with the Amplirider....hooked up to my Garmin 2730! XM radio, almost ZERO wind noise at highway speed, and I can still hear traffic.

Super sound quality!

[MonkeyGrass]

Ok so since I'm like, a musician, and I play every night with in-ear monitors, I think I can comment with a pretty decent amount of experience on this! ;)

IMO - you are going to have volume and/or blown speaker issues if you double up with earplugs, then speakers. It's like wearing a wetsuit so you can take a scalding hot shower. Essentially, you're blocking over 50% of the sound coming to your ears, then cranking up the speakers to hear them over the plugs. You need a lot of power, and usually, higher wattage speakers than what is going to fit properly inside a helmet.

I use M-Audio IE-10 In Ear monitors - both for stage and riding. They are earphones that fit up into your canal, and have a bunch of interchageable tips, from expanding foam (what I use) to silicon flanged tips. I find that the expanding foam ones act as earplugs for the helmet by sealing my ear canal, and I can keep the volume on the music reasonable since I'm filtering out the wind noise/roar.

The best part is, they are only $100 at Guitar Center or online.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-IE-10-InEar-Studio-Headphones-?sku=600077

These things rock - comfy, they stay in your ears and the interchangeable tips/sleeves allow you to fit the plug into your ear without having custom molds made. And they sound GREAT. You can plug them right into an amp or directly into an MP3/Sat radio unit and get enough power to hear them well.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!! I know I tried about 5 different systems before I settled on these.

[bobosmite]

I'm starting to notice there are two types of inner-ear speakers. The problem I had with the Etymotics was the tubes would collapse when I moved my jaw a certain way...basically, they only worked if I held my mouth open. That's why I was trying to get ear plugs + speakers to work. The M-Audio is different and looks like a little ball that doesn't go into the ear canal. That might work.

[xrmattaz]

Monkeygrass,

Those look great! I'm gonna order 'em up and give Momma the ER6i's. Have you compared sound quality to the Etymotic/Shure products? The replaceable wires are quite the concept, as they frequently get pulled/tugged on.

Did you order yet Bobo?

[MonkeyGrass]

They are identical in driver setup/specs and quality to the Shure E2's.

I use them every night - my music and my income depend on them. After going thru everything from Sennheiser studio cans, to Sony hi-quality buds, to Shure and Westone in-ears, I've found these to be the best I've ever used. I'm sure a $400 set of Shure E5's would sound better, but the price point/features and quality of these are unmatched, IMO.

And yes, the replaceable lead wires are CRUCIAL. Most earbuds go bad when the wire that goes into the earpiece bends/snaps and they are garbage. Not these!!!

[bobosmite]

Did you order yet Bobo?

I found a set for about $80 on Ebay, so I'm giving it a shot.

[xrmattaz]

The Shure E2's sounded "ok", but weren't very comfortable to me. The Shure E5's offered STUNNING sound quality, but also hurt my ears. I didn't have the Amplirider when I used the Shure's.

My current ER6's offer sound quality somewhere between the two, and are vastly more comfortable. I use the fattest yellow foam sleeves.

I'm gonna order up those that you suggested.



They are identical in driver setup/specs and quality to the Shure E2's.

I use them every night - my music and my income depend on them. After going thru everything from Sennheiser studio cans, to Sony hi-quality buds, to Shure and Westone in-ears, I've found these to be the best I've ever used. I'm sure a $400 set of Shure E5's would sound better, but the price point/features and quality of these are unmatched, IMO.

And yes, the replaceable lead wires are CRUCIAL. Most earbuds go bad when the wire that goes into the earpiece bends/snaps and they are garbage. Not these!!!

[MonkeyGrass]

I should mention that when I listen to the M-Audio's as in-ear monitors, they are running thru a top end Allen & Heath mix console, a dedicated EQ, and then a BBE sonic maximizer before the signal hits the phones. The way the signal is processed has a huge impact on the final result. They don't sound quite as great with my MP3 player, but with a little EQ adjustment, and considering that it's inside a motorcycle helmet (not exactly a studio control room as far as a listening environment!) - they do a very acceptable job. On the bike, comfort and fit are crucial underneath the helmet. You could spend $500 on E5's and probably not hear THAT much of a difference b/c of the environment.

[tmcgee]

I've tried the $20 HelmetAudio style speakers and they blow...as in blow out with the volume maxed.

Helmet speakers are always going to be disappointing for music listening.

Isolating earphones are the only way to go for good quality sound, no matter the cheapest to the most expensive custom-molded designs.

[xrmattaz]

I imagine they will sound pretty darn good running with the Amplirider, which boosts output by 25dB.

If they're anywhere near as good as my ER6i's, I'll be happy, otherwise my wife can use 'em....she won't notice the difference!




I should mention that when I listen to the M-Audio's as in-ear monitors, they are running thru a top end Allen & Heath mix console, a dedicated EQ, and then a BBE sonic maximizer before the signal hits the phones. The way the signal is processed has a huge impact on the final result. They don't sound quite as great with my MP3 player, but with a little EQ adjustment, and considering that it's inside a motorcycle helmet (not exactly a studio control room as far as a listening environment!) - they do a very acceptable job. On the bike, comfort and fit are crucial underneath the helmet. You could spend $500 on E5's and probably not hear THAT much of a difference b/c of the environment.

[bobosmite]

I used the M-Audio this morning and they work great. The small round attachments fit inside my ear comfortably and block out distracting wind noise...but not important sounds like sirens, horns, and screeching tires. With a full-face helmet, it's a little tricky. I had to reverse the ear buds (left to right) to make them fit closer inside my ear. Even reversed, it's a little uncomfortable putting the helmet on, so if the ear buds can hold up to the constant wrangling, they will be worth the money. Once the helmet is on, they're comfortable. With the extra foam and helmet speakers removed, I don't have any more squished ears.

[bobosmite]

These ear buds are rough with a full-face helmet, but I might have found a solution. When I put them in according to the directions, it was tough putting on the helmet without knocking them loose. But, when I put them in *upside down* the helment goes on smoothe and the buds stay in place.

I was surprised to find that the wires leading into the ear buds are coupled, so it should break away before it rips out any wires. That's a big plus considering the cost.

[gibbage]

When I was at the Long Beach motorcycle show, they had a few people doing custom molded ear plugs with buds built into the plugs. Anyone with experance with these? I also have no clue on who would do that around here. Who would you look up for that?

[bobosmite]

Jabra ear gels look interesting and CHEAP too, but I haven't tried them. http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Jabra-EarGels-p-16313.html This might have been a more economy solution to the M-Audio, but since I already bought them, I'm going to use them.

[xrmattaz]

I ordered the M-Audio plugs from Fleabay....should have 'em in a day or two. Here's hoping I'm impressed!

[MonkeyGrass]

I went the Jabra route... They really start to hurt/irritate my ears after about 45 minutes... YMMV, but they were too stiff for me.

[xrmattaz]

Just received 'em today, and I'm impressed to say the least!

Much better bass response than the Etymotic ER6i....heck, I don't even have to use the Amplirider with these. I squeezed the big ol' yellow Ety foamies onto the M-Audio buds, I'm in heaven. Haven't tried 'em with a helmet yet though.....

Momma gets the Ety's!

[tmcgee]

Just received 'em today, and I'm impressed to say the least!

M-audio has three models. Which are you talking about?

[greywolf]

I use M-Audio IE-10 In Ear monitorsThanks for the tip. I received mine yesterday and am very pleased. I just use them with a GPS. Most of the time it's like wearing good earplugs. When the thing talks, it's like the voice is in my head. I used to use a cheapie in one ear and missed the earplug effect a lot when running with a sporty shield. It'll be in the 70s today so I'm putting on the shorty shield and going to Wisconsin.

[zed88]

So if I understand correctly the M-Audio IE-10 allow you to listen to music (or whatever) but will also decrease wind noise? I would like to be able to listen to music on the highway, but I need hearing protection. Currently I'm wearing a pair of 25db earplugs which work great. Will I get a similar effect with the IE-10's? I like sound systems, and all the other fun stuff but I've noticed that without hearing protection I get fatigued much faster on the bike. What do you guys think?

[greywolf]

When Bitchin' Betty isn't talking, it's just like wearing earplugs. The set comes with several earpieces. It's a matter of using the one with the best seal.

[xrmattaz]

So if I understand correctly the M-Audio IE-10 allow you to listen to music (or whatever) but will also decrease wind noise? I would like to be able to listen to music on the highway, but I need hearing protection. Currently I'm wearing a pair of 25db earplugs which work great. Will I get a similar effect with the IE-10's? I like sound systems, and all the other fun stuff but I've noticed that without hearing protection I get fatigued much faster on the bike. What do you guys think?


The IE-10's have a 26dB sound isolation rating, which protects from wind noise VERY well, and also allows you to listen to music.....if you plug 'em in to some sort of music player.

I've been using the Ety's for a few years, but I really really like these new ones! I actually stole the largest yellow foam bits from the Ety's and use those with the IE-10s....with no additional "sleeve", I just worked 'em over the solid "sleeve". Fantastic noise isolation, and beautiful sound quality!

Get 'em!

[MonkeyGrass]

Glad you guys like em!! :mrgreen:

You can get replacement foam sleeves. I put a new set on about once a month, maybe 3 weeks if I'm gigging alot (waxy ears, I guess!).

The same foam sleeves that fit the Shure E2's fit on the IE-10. I get them from eBay - like $19 for a pack of 20. I've been toying with the idea of buying some Hearo's and spending a couple minutes on the workbench. I'm pretty sure I could use an awl or something similar to punch a hole thru a standard foam cylinder earplug and get the same effect.

[xrmattaz]

Glad you guys like em!! :mrgreen:

You can get replacement foam sleeves. I put a new set on about once a month, maybe 3 weeks if I'm gigging alot (waxy ears, I guess!).

The same foam sleeves that fit the Shure E2's fit on the IE-10. I get them from eBay - like $19 for a pack of 20. I've been toying with the idea of buying some Hearo's and spending a couple minutes on the workbench. I'm pretty sure I could use an awl or something similar to punch a hole thru a standard foam cylinder earplug and get the same effect.


The stock foamies for the IE-10's are VERY skinny for my ears, and I've had good luck adapting the Ety big fat yellow ones....any other options? Do the Shure E2's fit with the silicone "inners" attached?? I'm using the big yellow foamies on the IE-10 PLASTIC sleeve, without benefit of any silicone sleeve....hope this makes sense??

[MonkeyGrass]

The stock foamies for the IE-10's are VERY skinny for my ears, and I've had good luck adapting the Ety big fat yellow ones....any other options? Do the Shure E2's fit with the silicone "inners" attached?? I'm using the big yellow foamies on the IE-10 PLASTIC sleeve, without benefit of any silicone sleeve....hope this makes sense??

Yeah it makes perfect sense!! :p

You can get the Shure E2 replacement in S, M, or L. I use M in my left ear and L in my right. Sounds crazy but it works. The replacement sleeves have the clear rubber "tube" already in them, they slide right over the IE-10 ear ports.

[aircav]

So, based on this thread I ran out and bought a set of M-Audio IE-10's today. I can't get them in my ears even with the smallest ear tips! I can't believe I've got such small ear canals. I even tried putting them in upside down, no dice.

I can get them in enough that they seal out the noise but the slightest movement and they fall out. There is no way I can get my helmet on without pulling them out.

Man, am I disappointed and my ears are sore. I doubt I can even return them for hygiene reasons.

[zed88]

Are there any chains stores that would stock these? I'd like to demo a pair first, especially for the cost.

[mtnbiker]

I just called two local music stores (ones that sell instruments and recording equipment, not CD's) and they both stock them. They also said they stock spare tips. One said they sell quite a few to motorcyclists.

Calgary is probably smaller than where your at so you should be able to find them. However they said they come in sealed packages and I doubt a store will let you tear them open and put them in your ear. Note the price was cheaper than the internet as I will not have to pay shipping. I think I will go check them out this week.

[StarWatcher]

Are there any chains stores that would stock these?

Quite a few .... for example "MicroCenter, Fry's, ..."

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=store.locator

--Mike

[xrmattaz]

So, based on this thread I ran out and bought a set of M-Audio IE-10's today. I can't get them in my ears even with the smallest ear tips! I can't believe I've got such small ear canals. I even tried putting them in upside down, no dice.

I can get them in enough that they seal out the noise but the slightest movement and they fall out. There is no way I can get my helmet on without pulling them out.

Man, am I disappointed and my ears are sore. I doubt I can even return them for hygiene reasons.


Did you try the grey foam plugs? You do know that one must compress the foam fully before insertion, eh?

[bobosmite]

So, based on this thread I ran out and bought a set of M-Audio IE-10's today. I can't get them in my ears even with the smallest ear tips! I can't believe I've got such small ear canals. I even tried putting them in upside down, no dice.

I can get them in enough that they seal out the noise but the slightest movement and they fall out. There is no way I can get my helmet on without pulling them out.

Man, am I disappointed and my ears are sore. I doubt I can even return them for hygiene reasons.

I wore them for about four hours this weekend and my ears were blazing for about an hour after. With more use, I think the pain will go away. This happened to me before with a pair of heavy sunglasses that hurt my nose.

Sorry you couldn't find a tip that fits. Maybe try the $9 Jabra ear plugs. By the look of them, you might be able to trim them down to fit.

[tmcgee]

So, based on this thread I ran out and bought a set of M-Audio IE-10's today. I can't get them in my ears even with the smallest ear tips! I can't believe I've got such small ear canals.

Some guys can put their fists in their ears, but I have small ear canals as well. I use the Etymotic ER6i with the smallest foam tips they make. These have to be ordered direct because they are not included. I have not found any other option except custom ear molds.

[iron_llama]

Jabra ear gels look interesting and CHEAP too, but I haven't tried them. http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Jabra-EarGels-p-16313.html This might have been a more economy solution to the M-Audio, but since I already bought them, I'm going to use them.

I tried the Jabra gels with my ear buds. The gels that fit my ears, tore when I put the buds in. The gels that fit the buds, were too big for my ears and drove me crazy; I've never been mor relieved in my life than in the moment I ripped off my helmet and tore those damn things out of my head. I have one more set of gels (the smallest size) that might work with another set of earbuds, but I'm in no hurry to try.

[MonkeyGrass]

I tried the Jabra gels with my ear buds. The gels that fit my ears, tore when I put the buds in. The gels that fit the buds, were too big for my ears and drove me crazy; I've never been more relieved in my life than in the moment I ripped off my helmet and tore those damn things out of my head.

I had the same experience with the Jabra's. Replaceable foam sleeves are all that work for me.

[zed88]

I picked up a pair of Shure SE210's this weekend when I got a deal I couldn't refuse. I'll let you guys know how they work out. :)
http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/Products/Earphones/SEModels/us_pa_SE210_content
What do you guys think?

Eric

[bobosmite]

I've been using the M-Audio for about a month and have some last comments.

The only real problem I've had is with the bendable wires on the ear pieces. Because I have to wear them upside down, it caused wear on the bendable wire and it broke/separated so that the only thing holding the earbud was the actual speaker wire. I fixed this with some shrink tubing and rubber silicon. Now the connection is flexible and strong.

I was able to do a 15-hour day with these ear buds and my ears didn't hurt. The human body is amazing because at first I couldn't do 2 hours without burning pain...and now it's nothing.

[xrmattaz]

I think I'll have to try 'em upside down too. They pull out of my ears when putting on/taking off the helmet.

You switched sides also, correct? L-R?

[MonkeyGrass]

When you guys say, upside down, how exactly are you wearing these plugs?? They are supposed to go in with the wire coming up and over your ears. On other words, they should "hook" around and then behind the ears. I can't see how you guys are pulling them out when you put the helmet on. Mine snug down even better, because the tension from the helmet snugs the buds down onto my ears even tighter. They pop out when I take the helmet off, but that's to be expected.

[greywolf]

I switch left and right. They stick out to far as designed.

[xrmattaz]

When you guys say, upside down, how exactly are you wearing these plugs?? They are supposed to go in with the wire coming up and over your ears. On other words, they should "hook" around and then behind the ears. I can't see how you guys are pulling them out when you put the helmet on. Mine snug down even better, because the tension from the helmet snugs the buds down onto my ears even tighter. They pop out when I take the helmet off, but that's to be expected.


I use a Shoei RF1000 helmet, which is quite snug by design. No way I can put said helmet on while also keeping these earbuds in my ears.....

Guess I'll use these for home use, and go back to the ER6i's for helmet use.

[bobosmite]

When you guys say, upside down, how exactly are you wearing these plugs??

They fit closer to my head when they're not reversed, just turned so the wire comes out the bottom. My helmet slips on easy, but they snag when it comes off. The other way around they would snag going on and that just doesn't work.

There's really no single solution because everyone has different dimensions and helmets. I like the way they fit as designed, but that isn't going to happen with my head/helmet.