**** Suzuki!

[William]

We're not having that kind of relationship, unless of course, I keep the bike.
They misrepresented the bike as dual-sport (DL650). That's bad enough... I sprain my knee attempting to get through 2 inches of sand (according to the off-road instructions that they issue with the bike!).
Second incident:
I drop it in the barn, on a concrete floor, and the left turn-signal housing flies into about 6 pieces. The next morning, in daylight, I go to see what exactly broke. One piece broke, the black housing that surrounds the bulb.
I take apart the right turn-signal to see how it goes together and find that the housing on that one has a long crack in it.
Ironically, I was impressed and pleased to see what a simple repair it was... one piece of plastic, two screws!
I go to Cycle world of Daytona to get the part (I don't live in Daytona but have an address and mother there, and I bought the bike there). They tell me that that part is not sold separate. The assembly is $58 with tax and shipping. Well, I say, replace the right side under warranty (I did not break the right side, it came that way) and I'll keep that piece for the one I busted.
No, they say.
Go 1.5 hours back home and 1.5 hours back, with the whole motorcycle (with the part that they're holding in their hands, inspecting it), so we can inspect the whole thing, and then replace the part under warranty.
So I say, oh no, goodbye.
This bike is going to someone who'll subordinate them self to the degradation.
**** Suzuki! We're not having that kind of relationship. Unless, of course, I keep the bike.
William

[GRS1959]

ok.... :confused:

[William]

ok.... :confused:
Thank you!:D

[WeThereYet]

Thank you!:D

You drop the bike and you want the signal light housing replaced under warranty?

Good luck with that. Let me know how you do, because I've been riding with a broken clutch lever since the bike was 1 week old. Warranty? I think not!!

[William]

You drop the bike and you want the signal light housing replaced under warranty?

Good luck with that. Let me know how you do, because I've been riding with a broken clutch lever since the bike was 1 week old. Warranty? I think not!!
No. I should shorten the post, but you mis-read it.

[Keith Falkner]

WTY, please reread the saga.

When William ruined the left signal, he opened up the right signal to see how it was made, and THAT one, brand new and unabused, has a long crack in it. <- William's words in italics.

He wanted the dealer to replace the cracked right shell under warranty, and let him keep the cracked right shell to repair and use on the left.

I share William's low opinion of the dealer's actions.

Keith

[William]

WTY, please reread the saga.

When William ruined the left signal, he opened up the right signal to see how it was made, and THAT one, brand new and unabused, has a long crack in it. <- William's words in italics.

He wanted the dealer to replace the cracked right shell under warranty, and let him keep the cracked right shell to repair and use on the left.

I share William's low opinion of the dealer's actions.

Keith
And for that reason, and because I was born and raised in Sarasota (and because my Sarasota brother-in-law orthopedic surgeon treated my sprained knee for free)... I thank thee, Keith.
William

[Keith Falkner]

William, I have three pieces of advice that I hope you will consider.

First, spend about $30 including postage on a pair of flush-mounted signals.

Second, keep the Wee! I like mine, and I ride it a lot. It's versatile, capacious, steady in winds, and sure-footed on the roads I choose. It has taken me to fourteen states and five provinces, and soon it will take to four more states and the rest of the provinces. It will also take me to a second ocean, the Atlantic.

Third, please ride with the Stromtroopers near you. There are frequent rides, generally starting within 70 miles of you and visiting interesting sites within a comfortable day's ride. We are a cordial lot, and enjoy swapping lies. Not a lot of us know a secant from a surd, but we keep the conversational ball rolling in a most interesting way. Look in the regional threads.

I see no reason for you to go back to that unsympathetic dealer. My warranty expired last month, and I admit that I neglected the opportunity to have one lost bolt replaced under warranty. That was the only thing that went wrong in 12000 miles. Well, no, a second bolt fell out of the dealer-installed center-stand, but it had the good manners to land on my driveway.

Right bike, wrong dealer.
Keith

[William]

Keith,
Funny, but I still feel that in general I chose the right bike.
I would have already migrated from the general forums to the Florida riders, but I've been so stuck/disappointed with the lite-sand performance (just to get in and out of home) that I haven't gotten with them yet (bike has <100 miles).
In fact, I just received a Continental TKC-80 Front Tire from tires-unlimited but haven't had a chance to have it mounted.
I swear, one piece of plastic (under 1 oz. weight) and the dealer just goes to hell on me. They, of course, blame it on Suzuki for not selling the part separate, which is both true and unacceptable (I first went in to just buy the part. I'd pay $10 for a $0.10 piece of plastic to avoid the warranty hassle, but don't disrespect me:-(). I tell them to grow a pair, or get the **** out of the business (I'm kinda like that:-). People love it!:mrgreen:
William
PS-and I swear to Allah that I don't know what a surd is (and barely remember secant), but please do tell me more about the flush-mounted signals.

[WeThereYet]

WTY, please reread the saga.

Keith

That's OK I'll pass! Pardon my inability to see the obvious. I see you've since highlighted the high points. Thanks from those of us less observant.:D

[William]

True. I did the highlights after your post. Sorry for my round-about ways (worse when I'm pissed, and/or when I'm pissed).;)
W.

[GONE14S]

Learn to ride = no broken parts.........;)

[William]

Learn to ride = no broken parts.........;)
To you, and to PlanetMath.org ("A surd is an irrational number, which can be written as the sum of rational powers of rational numbers."), and to a real-estate attorney who recently told me that his fee is $325/hour, and to Cycle World of Daytona who wants $58 for a $0.10 part, my response is...
Oh no, you did not just say that to me!
:shock:
Will-I-am

[Big B]

We're not having that kind of relationship, unless of course, I keep the bike.
They misrepresented the bike as dual-sport (DL650). That's bad enough... I sprain my knee attempting to get through 2 inches of sand (according to the off-road instructions that they issue with the bike!).



A "dual sport" is in the eyes of the beholder!;) Sounds like you need a dirtbike, perhaps a DR400, DR650 or KLR650. Also, if you had better tires on, you may have had a fighting chance of getting through the sand.

As for the dealer you dealt with....find another! They handled this very poorly, and it isn't the bikes fault. Put it up for sale if you want, I'm sure you'll sell it quickly. Or....you can get it fixed and have a very nice bike that you will absolutley love.

[spongebob218]

The bike does weigh 500lbs, has street oriented dual sport tires, and has protruding objects. If you actually try to off-road it, odds are something bad is going to happen. Its just too big and bulky to be a true dual sport. Of course that still doesn't stop some of us from doing crazy things with it.

[GRS1959]

I think your original post should have been titled "**** Cycle World of Daytona", not "**** Suzuki". Suzuki is not responsible for you hurting yourself trying to ride a 500 lb motorcycle through sand or for either one of your broken signals.

I do think the dealer could have handled it better. But to be honest, if I was the dealer and someone limped in saying he damaged one turn signal then asked to have the other one replaced under warranty, I might ask to see the bike also. ;)

[Keith Falkner]

Ebay item 160106536889 is just one of 177 returns I got when I searched for flush turn in all categories. This item is neither the cheapest, dearest, worst, or best in my opinion.

Sooner or later, I'm likely to knock off a signal, so I will buy a pair of flush mount signals to effect cheap repairs that I may not need to repeat.

Today's trigonometry lesson begins ...

A secant is just a line that cuts a curve twice. In trigonometry, the secant of an angle is the reciprocal of the cosine, so it's the hypotenuse over the adjacent. This is a clumsy ratio to use because the secant of 90º is infinite. That means you have to make special cases of any situations involving right angles, as a lot of things do.

Trigonometry was an important part of my job in the early 1990s, and I was pleased to have the opportunity to thank the man who taught me trigonometry in the 1950s.

So, what do ya wanna do instead of trig class?

So do I; let's ride!
Keith

[William]

I think your original post should have been titled "**** Cycle World of Daytona", not "**** Suzuki". Suzuki is not responsible for you hurting yourself trying to ride a 500 lb motorcycle through sand or for either one of your broken signals.

I do think the dealer could have handled it better. But to be honest, if I was the dealer and someone limped in saying he damaged one turn signal then asked to have the other one replaced under warranty, I might ask to see the bike also. ;)
No, actually Suzuki set the policy on 1) not selling the piece separate,
and 2) requiring the whole bike be brought in for replacing any part under warranty.
The sand problem is a separate issue. The bike was not hurt and the sprain was mild when I flopped in the sand (thank Allah). I didn't buy the bike to ride off-road, I bought it because I thought that it was a decent road bike capable of getting in and out of my yard. It's just not much sand.
I broke the left turn-signal on my concrete barn floor.
I think that Suzuki is responsible for the cracked right-turn signal housing. That one is pristine in every other way and has never touched anything but wind. They exacerbate the simplest repair imaginable with their policies. Again, it disassembles by removing a grand total of 2 screws.
William
PS-Thanks for the lead, Keith. Unfortunately, it's a 'once shame on you, twice shame on me' situation. With all due respect to The Donald; Suzuki, You're fired!

[Newfoundlander]

No offense to those whom like to take their V-Stroms off road, but as someone who rides thousands of miles of technical off road trails each year, on my deep-geared, knobby-shod DRZ400, I can't imagine there is much joy in riding a V-Strom off road.

It seems obvious to me that the V-Strom is a killer back-road sport touring bike, and one that can handle the odd jaunt on a dirt road. But a dirtbike, or even a dual sport, it is clearly not.

[William]

No offense to those whom like to take their V-Stroms off road, but as someone who rides thousands of miles of technical off road trails each year, on my deep-geared, knobby-shod DRZ400, I can't imagine there is much joy in riding a V-Strom off road.

It seems obvious to me that the V-Strom is a killer back-road sport touring bike, and one that can handle the odd jaunt on a dirt road. But a dirtbike, or even a dual sport, it is clearly not.
Thank you, Newfoundlander. That's about all the documentation I'll need to recover my loss (~$1500) in small claims court. They advertise the bike as "dual sport".
William

[cra1g]

Ah, yes. I understand many of the country's finest law schools dedicate an entire semester to the intracacies of the "Some guy on the internet said so" argument. :p

[William]

Ah, yes. I understand many of the country's finest law schools dedicate an entire semester to the intracacies of the "Some guy on the internet said so" argument. :p

I couldn't buy better documentation for my argument.
I love the net.:D

[TouringDude]

the strom, like all other bikes of its ilk (BMW GS, triumph tiger, buell ulysses, etc.) is a dual sport in that it will navigate dirt roads and minor off-road obstacles. but only if the operator has the chops to make it happen.

there are dedicated off-road bikes that do a much better job, more easily. but believe it or not, they, too, will do bellyflop in deep sand. and when they do stuff breaks.

those're the facts.

gawd, i remember the good old days when riders would bust their a$$, get up off the ground, fix their bikes, and go riding again. sometimes a crash is no one's fault but your own. i guess these days it's impossible to screw up without finding someone to blame/sue.

[GRS1959]

...2) requiring the whole bike be brought in for replacing any part under warranty.

I guess I don't see a problem with that policy. If you walk in with the part in your hand, and the bike is at home, how do they know where the part came from? How are they to know that you didn't drop the bike on the right side also? JMO

[William]

They probably should not (I now know) include instructions with a 450# bike to "accelerate earlier and brake later" when going through sand. Any motorcycle can be ridden on a hard-pack dirt road and so I feel pretty strongly that it is a misrepresentation to call the DL650 a dual sport (again, 'I now know').
I did ride a 100cc enduro in nothing but dirt (and I suspect, sand too) when I was a teenager, but that was a long time ago.
Your/their point is not without merit, GSR1959. But again, I put the part in their hand for inspection. They could have come through with some user friendly customer service. If I'd known about the 2 previously mentioned policies I would have saved us both some time and hassle (It was my original plan to just go in and purchase 2 turn-signal housings).
Every other post that I'd made up to this thread was me trying to figure out how to deal with the sand issue, and I dragged it into this thread about a 20 gram piece of molded plastic that Suzuki sells unnecessarily bundled with other parts for $58.:(

[Newfoundlander]

Thank you, Newfoundlander. That's about all the documentation I'll need to recover my loss (~$1500) in small claims court. They advertise the bike as "dual sport".
William



I think you completely missed my point, William.

I was agreeing with you, that the bike should not be designated as a dualsport bike.

However...

Common sense tells me that the V-Strom is not suited for much more than dirt roads, no matter what Suzuki said or didn't say. Sometimes thinking for yourself is best.

:rolleyes:

[William]

I think you completely missed my point, William.

I was agreeing with you, that the bike should not be designated as a dualsport bike.

However...

Common sense tells me that the V-Strom is not suited for much more than dirt roads, no matter what Suzuki said or didn't say.
I was only agreeing with your point, Newfoundlander (and restating how they advertise the bike).
I think that if I'd been anywhere near motorcycling for the last 30 years I might have been more suspicious, or one of the salespeople could have said something on one of the occasions when I stated why I was buying the DL650 instead of the SV650. But my point is also that my situation is not "much more than dirt roads". You've got the riding experience to take the bike down the road that I'm talking about, but even you say that it's not suited to it.
But no, unfortunately I had no idea how far from 'dual sport' that it really is, I thought that it was going to be perfect for my situation (a long dirt/lite-sand driveway, and then the open road) because of the way it was advertised.

[SCraig]

If you're going to "Pick Nits" regarding Suzuki's "Dual-Sport" description I think it's important to keep in mind that they can do the same. First off, the description "Dual-Sport" in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean "Sand" only that it is capable of doing "Two Sports". They didn't say what those two sports are. Perhaps they meant "Asphalt" and "Concrete".

Secondly, and no offense intended here, just because you couldn't get through the sand at your house doesn't mean someone else can't. If you go to court with that argument all they have to do is find one person who can make it through the sand to negate it. I suspect they could get one of their sponsored motocross guys to do it for them.

Bottom line, you won't have a leg to stand on in court with that argument.

[William]

If you're going to "Pick Nits" regarding Suzuki's "Dual-Sport" description I think it's important to keep in mind that they can do the same. First off, the description "Dual-Sport" in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean "Sand" only that it is capable of doing "Two Sports". They didn't say what those two sports are. Perhaps they meant "Asphalt" and "Concrete".

Secondly, and no offense intended here, just because you couldn't get through the sand at your house doesn't mean someone else can't. If you go to court with that argument all they have to do is find one person who can make it through the sand to negate it. I suspect they could get one of their sponsored motocross guys to do it for them.

Bottom line, you won't have a leg to stand on in court with that argument.
I don't think so, Craig. The "Dual Sport" designation is not just a little off the mark, but rather far off of it (sorry, but that is what I've seen in this and other threads). Of course, you cannot come into a court of law and say that dualsport means concrete and asphalt or even that, as I just spoke to (I think I posted my last post while you were composing yours), that it's OK to call it a dualsport because Joe Knuckles can get it down my driveway. That actually would not be the standard that the court would use (I'm pretty sure).

[William]

Anybody that can stand anymore, please look at these two threads and tell me what you think:
Down in the Sand (Check out Tommy's photos linked in the first post)
http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10686
&
Sand Tires? ("which in florida means sand"-Keith)
http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3202
Thanks,
William

[WeThereYet]

[quote=William;97291]Anybody that can stand anymore, /quote]

I can't!!! I'm done with this one. Ever thought of a quad?
Good luck with whatever you end up with!

[William]

My other ride is a pickup truck. It's the worst 4 tire vehicle that I could have on that road, a regular cab, long bed, 2-wheel drive, but I go in and out everyday with no spin, and no problem.
I kept telling myself that there's a learning curve to this, and to be patient. The aftercare experience yesterday ended that phase and illuminated the whole curve.:roll:

[sandiegoland]

I can sand it anymore!! :D

Seriously though. Can't disagree that sand is a handful for big bikes. It's hard to keep the front aloft, and standing up on the pegs is an odd position for tall folks like me. However... if you want to see how the bike behaves and develop your sand skills... then my recommendation is to hit the stretch after it has recently rained (it's stickier then!!). Go back over the section repeatedly as it drys out over a few days. Play with air pressure. Some say changes in air pressure are less noticeable the bigger the bike, but it still makes a difference.

After practicing in moist sand you may just decide that the dry stuff is too soft, but at least you'll be able to better judge it.

http://www.thumbwave.com/dl650/images/62930317e.jpg

Finally, the last thing I will suggest is considered to be horrible technique by most -- but consider plowing and paddling through short sections of sand while seated. On little bikes you have to stay on the speed and let the bike move about under you, but you might be surprised how the torque on a bigger bike can deliver traction at pretty slow speed. As long as the terrain is smooth and the speed is low you won't have to worry about getting bucked off.

How do I know this works? I've had to get going from a stop in sand while 2UP a few times. Not saying this it the technique for riverbeds and sandwashes, but try it for stuff of several inches as you mentioned.

[TouringDude]

I can sand it anymore!! :D

Seriously though. Can't disagree that sand is a handful for big bikes. It's hard to keep the front aloft, and standing up on the pegs is an odd position for tall folks like me. However... if you want to see how the bike behaves and develop your sand skills... then my recommendation is to hit the stretch after it has recently rained (it's stickier then!!). Go back over the section repeatedly as it drys out over a few days. Play with air pressure. Some say changes in air pressure are less noticeable the bigger the bike, but it still makes a difference.

After practicing in moist sand you may just decide that the dry stuff is too soft, but at least you'll be able to better judge it.

http://www.thumbwave.com/dl650/images/62930317e.jpg

Finally, the last thing I will suggest is considered to be horrible technique by most -- but consider plowing and paddling through short sections of sand while seated. On little bikes you have to stay on the speed and let the bike move about under you, but you might be surprised how the torque on a bigger bike can deliver traction at pretty slow speed. As long as the terrain is smooth and the speed is low you won't have to worry about getting bucked off.

How do I know this works? I've had to get going from a stop in sand while 2UP a few times. Not saying this it the technique for riverbeds and sandwashes, but try it for stuff of several inches as you mentioned.

regarding the photo of you navigating a sandwash ... i hope and pray that there is a lawyer following you, in case you have problems. in a land rover, of course, equipped with a safe and sane roll cage and body armor.

:mrgreen:

[William]

Agreed, SanDiegoLand. And I have been through those steps already. Letting out a whole bunch of air helped a lot, but doesn't seem like a practical solution for an everyday situation. And yes, the sand does tighten up some after a rain and cuts out some of that out-of-control-skateboard feeling, but again, not enough for a daily situation.
I also wonder how that ride was for you, as shown in the photo. Were you paddling when you got to the foreground area?

[sandiegoland]

I also wonder how that ride was for you, as shown in the photo. Were you paddling when you got to the foreground area?
Not at all, that was supposed to be an example of damp sand. You can see the roosts from the previous riders (wet sand below), and how the V-Strom is just casually riding over the top of it.

[V1Vr]

So, here's a chuckle.... I've been following this thread wondering when Suzuki ever said the DLs were Dualsports anyways??? The literature I've got for 06 Suzukies lists both Stroms in the "Street" or standard section. The Suzuki Canada website is the same. So, low and behold ,BEFORE (could be a first:rolleyes: ) I go open my big fat mouth, I checked the Suzuki USA website, shur'nuff there are both DLs squarely in the Dualsport category. Kinda funny how the bike ceases to be a Daulsport once you're north of the 49th!:)

As for your situation William, I agree that it really sucks to have to pay nearly 50 bucks for a complete unit that a 50 cent piece of plastic would fix.

[William]

Yeah, it's also in their glossy dual sport booklet that the dealer hands out to prospective customers (here in sandy Florida).:???:
PS-I just looked at their Maple Leaf site (http://moto.suzuki.ca/Home.aspx?province=BC&culture=en-CA). That is an interesting difference, me thinks.

[sandiegoland]

...funny how the bike ceases to be a Daulsport once you're north of the 49th!:)

However the review article they link to from the Canadian Suzuki DL650 page elludes to it being a dualsport... http://moto.suzuki.ca/Data/Media/224_EveryDangThing.pdf

But no mention of sand... just "dry" dirtroads!! :D

regarding the photo of you navigating a sandwash ... i hope and pray that there is a lawyer following you, in case you have problems. in a land rover, of course, equipped with a safe and sane roll cage and body armor.


I've been advised by counsel not to define that particular section as a sandwash... :roll:


=======

In my limited experience, the greatest threat on a heavy motorcycle in sand is an inadvertant countersteer. A lighter bike can "float" the front more easily, relinquishing control to the rear (where peg steering has more effect). The front wheel wags around with little influance. You have to lean the bike to get the bike to turn.

With a heavier front and a smaller diameter wheel that is almost always ready to plow in, a sudden "grab" at the front from one side can pitch the bike quickly just like an intended countersteer to avoid an obstacle.

Even if you are not riding in sand, but just on a dirt road, you have to be ready for soft sections. There might be build up of dirt, sand or gravel in spots (pothole recently filled in, or recent runoff or road material build-up).

I try to constantly "test" the surface in dirt. Focus on controlling your direction by leaning and depending on the rear wheel. Try to set up corrections in direction or set up for turns before you get to a questionable spot. Some turns and intersections have a lot of debris and build-up.

This may be my imagination, but it seems like you have more control in the sand or dirt when you are slightly turning, drifting, or biasing the bike in one direction. If you are on a crowned road it is always more natural to correct to the center for example.

[William]

However the review article they link to from the Canadian Suzuki DL650 page elludes to it being a dualsport... http://moto.suzuki.ca/Data/Media/224_EveryDangThing.pdf

But no mention of sand... just "dry" dirtroads!! :D
That link crashes me wee-Adobe from your link and from the link on MapleLeafSuzuki, too. It could be short-circuiting into the Surd definition from an earlier post, but it is another interesting distinction (i.e. 'dry dirt roads').
I actually have to go down 2 miles of graded Forest Road before I get to what I call 'my driveway'. Well, it's not so graded anymore because da-war got into the federal forest service budget (file with VT under 'other issues'), but the motorcycle is pure pleasure on that section (ironically, where the pickup-truck is pure hell). The DL650 just passes right by the potholes and washouts (I wave at them with my toes as I go by).:D

[Newfoundlander]

I think that if I'd been anywhere near motorcycling for the last 30 years I might have been more suspicious, or one of the salespeople could have said something on one of the occasions when I stated why I was buying the DL650 instead of the SV650. But my point is also that my situation is not "much more than dirt roads". You've got the riding experience to take the bike down the road that I'm talking about, but even you say that it's not suited to it.
But no, unfortunately I had no idea how far from 'dual sport' that it really is, I thought that it was going to be perfect for my situation (a long dirt/lite-sand driveway, and then the open road) because of the way it was advertised.


Fair enough.

Point well-taken.

[Big B]

William......you had been away from motorcyling for 30 years? If that is the case, it makes me wonder if "maybe" you would be able to ride that big ole pig better in the loose stuff, if your riding skills were sharp. Just do some good reading here, at the Vstrom rapid forum, or over at ADV rider. You will see a TON of guys that can punish these bikes offroad. Are they the best choice for that? No....not for a large majority of riders. The common sense factor at the dealer, should have led you to the right bike. If you actually saw either a street legal DRZ400 or a DR650, you might have seen a much better REAL dual sport machine.

Also...if I would have taken that bad signal into my dealer, I have little doubt that they would have questioned me. You live in Florida, which is the mecca of supersports and cruisers, most dealers could give a damn less about anything else. Purchasing the wrong bike for your needs, wants, and expectations, as well as having a suspect dealer, has all blown this situation out of proportion. Best of luck to ya.....you'll need it!;)

[Ewchimp]

Just my .02, Suzuki calls it an 80/20 dual sport. I have never been a dirt bike rider, but I have no trouble riding dirt, gravel and two track trails on my Wee. It certainly lives up to it's billing. The Stroms are just as capable as the BMW and more so than the Ulys. No it doesn't do sand well, but it does it a hell of a lot better than streetbikes and touring rigs. The bike was designed to take you wherever there is a road, to include unpaved, potholed, poorly graded excuses for side roads. Two inches of sand was not the intended arena. When I hit loose sand, I grip with the knees, lean back on the bike and loosen my grip on the bars. From there it's just a matter of trust in the bike to get through. Oh yeah, NO front brake :) The Strom is an excellent mix of city/highway/dirt track competence. Definitely an 80/20 dual sport. No bike is perfect for everyone, I hope you find the right fit for you.

[William]

It's all good hindsight observations and I can agree with it (now)... though I never saw where Suzuki called it an 80/20 mix.
Ewchimp, this is where the rub is, where you say, for my situation, what seems like contradicting things ("The bike was designed to take you wherever there is a road, to include unpaved, potholed, poorly graded excuses for side roads. Two inches of sand was not the intended arena."). The fact remains, in Florida, when you go off-pavement, you run into sand.
My driveway is better than 'a poorly graded excuse for a side road'. The 2 miles of Forest Service graded road would take a GoldWing, no problem. Then, I can go up and down the side road (my driveway) all day long with the worst 4-tire vehicle you can use in that situation, with no problem.
Suzuki doesn't say 'not good for lite sand', they give you an off-road instruction booklet that says 'accelerate early, and brake late when going through sand' (what!). If the sandy (sandy, dirty, w/clay mixed) surfaced road was an optional riding area for me I'd put it in my "don't go there" memory (as someone else said in one of the linked threads, above). But to me it was a big surprise and a gross misrepresentation of the motorcycle.

[MonkeyGrass]

Uh, no dude it's called common sense. Something it appears you lack more than a little of.

First off - buy a set of $17 Lockhart Phillips Flush mount turn signals. Yes, you read that right. $17. You are getting this fired up over a $20 set of replacement parts that YOU broke b/c you obviously don't know how to ride in light sand/loose dirt. Plenty of people do - and it's not Suzuki's responsibility to "William-proof" their bikes so that someone with no dirt experience can read the manual that came with the bike and learn how to ride on non-paved surfaces. Did you ever think about picking up a book on the subject, or maybe buying an XR125 or something similar in order to learn how to dirt ride? Or should that have been the fault of the dealer, by not telling you that you should have some experience before you attempt this type of riding? You seem to think that because Suzuki labels this bike as a DS, it should somehow magically turn you into a great dirt rider? ROFLMFAO. Come on. YOU, William, are the reason there are so many stupid warning stickers all over our bikes when we buy them.

It's not a "gross mis-representation of the motorcycle" as you put it. More like, gross negligence on your part by not learning the basics of dirt riding before trying to take a 500lb, 75 hp bike out in the sand. I ride quite a bit in dirt and or light sand and gravel, and I've never put the bike down. I did, however, install flush mounts in case I ever do. $20 in preventative maintenance, or in less technical terms - COMMON SENSE. AS you will read on this site, ADVrider, and others, people who ride off road put their bikes on the ground. A lot. That's why there are crashguards, and skid plates, and headlight protectors. It's a fact - if you venture off the asphalt, you are greatly increasing your chances of going down. Should that be included in the manual too? ;)

Get over yourself. Quit whining, fix the $20 part YOU broke, and then take a MSF class and/or go check out your local MX park for some tips, tricks and practice. Either that, or get off of two wheels. I can see from your mental perspective, that nothing is your own fault and you will be a hazard to yourself and others on two wheels with that attitude.

Sorry to seem so harsh, but I've had all I can stand of this thread and the nonsensical whining. You're pissed at Suzuki cuz you dropped the bike and wonder why they won't replace a part. Holy moly. Are you the guy who wants to sue the water company when you burn yourself by turning the shower on too hot? B/C there isn't a "warning" on the fixture that says "don't turn knob past this point - you could get burned" :?

This seriously reminds me of the guy who was driving his RV - he puts on the cruise control, gets up from his seat and goes to the kitchen to make a cup of coffee. Obviously, the RV crashes, and he sues the RV manufacturer b/c the manual didn't specifically state that you shouldn't leave the drivers seat WHEN THE VEHICLE IS IN MOTION and cruise control is engaged!

[Newfoundlander]

Easy lads...

It's starting to sound like ADV Rider around here.


:mrgreen:

[William]

No, I'm glad you showed up, MonkeyGrass. You missed a couple small points about one of the turn-signal housings.
But, I'm old enough to know my responsibilities. I was patient, went up the learning curve (actually on the bike and in the sand), and drilled down into the subject here and elsewhere.
What I am seeing and you're not seeing is that there seems to be a consensus amongst experienced riders that the bike doesn't do sand. It's a very important point that seems to be lost on Suzuki and on you. Instead of trying to make it do sand by thinking about it and talking about it and writing about it (as if suffering from a degree of autism), one should come awake (grow a pair) and say what the real-deal is (show some courage for the sake of the new riders coming in here). THE DL650 IS SHIT IN SAND! I live in Florida for love's-sake (admin won't show the other 4-letter word). And I only had an expectation that the beastly looking thing would go down my lovin' driveway!
I was throwing good money after bad listening to input like yours. Thanks!;)
THE BIKE IS SHIT IN SAND! Lite, lite, sand! The bike is completely unsuitable for it! And if Suzuki and everybody else knows it, then grow a pair and lovin' say it for Christ-sake! Don't call it a lovin' dualsport and tell me to speed up. That's called negligence (apparently Suzuki and Cycle World DO NOT know their all growed-up responsibilities.

[Heavy-H]

Yikes...............

[MonkeyGrass]

No, I quite thoroughly got your "small point" about the turn signal housing.

You thought the right side should have been replaced since you didn't drop it on that side and therefore shouldn't be responsible for replacing what you considered a "Factory Defect". Did it occur to you, that between the two times you dropped it (apparently on the same side both times?) that the turn signal stalk as the entire bike hit the ground transmitted the harsh shock/vibration to the right side signal and that's why the plastic is broken? If I was an auto or bike manufacturer, and I had a customer standing in front of me admitting that the bike/car had been dropped/wrecked twice, and I wanted supposedly "unaffected" body parts replaced under warranty, I would laugh until I was blue in the face. Seriously. You dropped the bike. Plastic parts are going to break when that happens. And the minute it does, Suzuki legally and quite legitimately washes their hands of the whole affair. And my counter to that is - you can fix it for $20. Period. What's the big deal? It's a tank of gas, man.. not a defective $400 part, and you have now taken up nearly 2 pages of ranting and cursing at Suzuki because you dropped your bike. You would probably get some more sympathy or advice if you weren't acting like a 2 year old about it. It's a motorcycle. It's dangerous to ride, and expensive to fix. Or should that have been in the manual too? ;)

And you seem to have missed a lot of my point. I've ridden in light sand. On my BigVee, no less. Others on ADVrider and other sites ride quite a bit in the sand. Is the DL650 the best bike for it? NO. That's obvious and you should have known that before you bought the bike, if you truly did your homework. Buyer Beware, homeboy. That said - it can be capable enough in light sand to work - WITH THE PROPER TIRES, AND PRESSURE. Again - do your homework. You wanna ride in sand? There's not a street-comfortable tire that will do it. You need knobbys. End of story.

Seems kind of funny to me, you say myself and others have given you "bad advice" and caused you to make a decision that you think is now a mistake. Did it occur to you, that maybe "all those OTHER people" who seem to do just fine off the paved roads on a DL might be on to something, and it's something in your technique and setup that makes the bike so miserable on sand?

Just sell the damn thing and be done with it already, if it's that bad.

Just sayin'...

[MonkeyGrass]

Wait I take it all back.

Suzuki, Cycle World, everyone who rides a DL650 all conspired to mislead you into purchasing a wholly unsuitable bike.

You are right, and everyone else is wrong.

Does that make you feel better? ;)

[William]

Monkey grass,
The idea that dropping the bike on the left side (at a stand-still) breaks the turn-signal housing on the right side could only speak to the poor quality of the part or the high activity of your imagination (you have a dl650, right?). But I agree (again, NOW) with you that the solution there is to start rebuilding my brand new motorcycle with after-market parts as some sort of defensive rampart against Suzuki's corporate machine.
I have also NOW experienced the bike finding its way through the sand, after a rain, knees in, loosen grip on bars and let it do the seeking (as has been instructed above and elsewhere). It is too tenuous for a daily situation, riding at the threshold of 'skateboard-on-ice'. I've been over the tire type and air pressure issues. Look at the freakin' thread (with links, above). I know that you can get the bike through sand, and I also now know that at best it is SHIT for it. I don't "want" to ride in sand. I have a lite sand driveway, and my "Suzuki Dualsport" is SHIT for it. I didn't mean to blame you. I did a good bit of looking on the net, etc. But, we tend to want to pat ourselves on the back and to want to re-assure ourselves and one another (which is understandable), and I didn't even suspect, before-hand, that the bike was so unsuitable for my situation. But again, I believe that some clarity is in order here (for the next one of me that comes along, anyway), and I'll quote an experienced rider from above (because I can see that you're a whipper-snapper, and don't think that my 48 years has learnt me much);
Post #19 by Newfoundlander:
"No offense to those whom like to take their V-Stroms off road, but as someone who rides thousands of miles of technical off road trails each year, on my deep-geared, knobby-shod DRZ400, I can't imagine there is much joy in riding a V-Strom off road.
It seems obvious to me that the V-Strom is a killer back-road sport touring bike, and one that can handle the odd jaunt on a dirt road. But a dirtbike, or even a dual sport, it is clearly not."
This is (again, at best) what one finds after they drill down into the subject, if they have the ability then, to separate the shit from the shinola. If it's so lame in light sand ("...or even a dualsport, it is clearly not"), please do not call it a dualsport. A gross misrepresentation is a violation of the rules of commerce, and not (technically speaking) a 'buyer-beware' burden.
William

[TouringDude]

william ... i want to congratulate you on this first. i have owned four bikes now that have been the subject of very active bulletin boards (many, many bikes in the years prior to the internet). i have read and written numerous posts about each bike, some of the posts have been positive and others have not.

typically, the posts criticize manufacturers for stonewalling on what is "clearly a defective issue." sometimes the criticism has merit. other times, in my opinion, it does not.

but i have never, ever read a post where someone so steadfastly blames a manufacturer for their own riding ineptitude.

do you believe that it is impossible to navigate your driveway using a DL650? be honest.

if not, do you honestly think it was suzuki's responsibility to spell that out in their product literature?

what if you made your home in norway, and your driveway was solid ice? is it incumbent on suzuki to warn you that you might slip? it is, after all, dual-sport scenario, nichts?

in the interest of complete disclosure, here are some surfaces that might find you crashing your v-strom:

-ice
-snow
-steep hills and cliffs
-dense tree roots
-swamp lands

by your rationale, each should be explicitly spelled out in suzuki literature.

i respectfully suggest that this thread has run its course. we have fully heard and digested your side; and many of us have told you how we feel.

i can't say that i wish you luck in your legal exploits against suzuki because the rest of us will, in the end, bear the burden of those exploits, throught legal fees that u.s. suzuki will pass on to those of us who ... just ... want ... to ... ride.

[William]

Touring Dude,
You must have been composing as I was just posting. Please read my last post, and all the posts before it, and try to catch up.
William

[TouringDude]

Touring Dude,
You must have been composing as I was just posting. Please read my last post, and all the posts before it, and try to catch up.
William

william ... i was fully caught up when i wrote it. i stand by my comments.

cheers ... :cool:

[WeThereYet]

Make it STOPPPPPPP!!!!!!!! http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/baldy.gif

[William]

william ... i was fully caught up when i wrote it. i stand by my comments.

cheers ... :cool:

Hey, listen, I do appreciate you guys stress-testing the position that I now take. It was your "do you believe that it is impossible to navigate your driveway using a DL650? be honest." that I found to be substantially outside of the range of my complaint.
Honestly, I'm not saying the DL650 cannot be gotten down my driveway. I can do it, and I could probably do it with an SV650. What I'm saying is that the DL650 experience is not different/better enough, in that mild off-pavement situation, to call it a dualsport.

[Newfoundlander]

Just couple more points from me, since you're quoting me...

I wouldn't take a Suzuki DRZ400S off road, without first installing aggessive DOT knobby tires, protective armor, and regearing the bike, either. The stock tires are a get-off waiting to happen, and the bike's stock 15/44 sprocket set is way too tall for off road use.

So while I do get a good chuckle when I see photos of guys riding their V-Stroms on trails or in sand, I still think that it's extremely important to properly prep ANY bike for the type of off road use you will be doing. And I also believe that if you ride off road, you need to be prepared to crash the bike now and then, no matter what type of bike it is. That is just the nature of riding off pavement. That's why those of us who do a lot of off road riding spend a lot of cash on both armor for our bikes, and ourselves. We EXPECT to crash now and then as we learn the skills we need.

So my point is...

Despite the fact a bike like the DRZ400 is designated a dualsport bike by Suzuki, it would be laughable for me to suggest that it might be their fault, or that they have mislead me, every time I crash the bike.

Check out the state of my alloy handlebars, after I crashed the DRZ really hard off road, awhile back. The last thing on my mind was bitchin' at Suzuki for designating my DRZ an off road bike. I laughed at my own error, bought new bars, and moved on...

http://www.nsdsc.ca/photos/2005-09-25%20Horse%20Chops/chops12.jpg

William...

I honestly think you need to suck it up and take more responsibility for your little get off. Just learn from it, and stop looking for a scapegoat.

Just food for thought.

[William]

Just couple more points from me, since you're quoting me...

I wouldn't take a Suzuki DRZ400S off road, without first installing aggessive DOT knobby tires, protective armor, and regearing the bike, either. The stock tires are a get-off waiting to happen, and the bike's stock 15/44 sprocket set is way too tall for off road use.

So while I do get a good chuckle when I see photos of guys riding their V-Stroms on trails or in sand, I still think that it's extremely important to properly prep ANY bike for the type of off road use you will be doing. And I also believe that if you ride off road, you need to be prepared to crash the bike now and then, no matter what type of bike it is. That is just the nature of riding off pavement. That's why those of us who do a lot of off road riding spend a lot of cash on both armor for our bikes, and ourselves. We EXPECT to crash now and then as we learn the skills we need.

So my point is...

Despite the fact a bike like the DRZ400 is designated a dualsport bike by Suzuki, it would be laughable for me to suggest that it might be their fault, or that they have mislead me, every time I crash the bike.

William...

I honestly think you need to suck it up and take more responsibility for your little get off, than your seem willing to do.

Just food for thought.
But now we're talking about what a reasonable (and in this case, novice, more-or-less) person would expect. To me, the DRZ400 is a dirt-bike with blinkers. I'm way past my little spill. I promise you that I was patient and that I practiced, and that I did learn (never said that I'm competition-ready), but what I learned, as many experienced riders have said, is that the DL650 is ill-suited even to my mild 'dualsport' driveway (not a cliff, ice, or swamp driveway, as I have tried to familiarize everyone by having them visualize the 2-wheel drive pickup truck in sand).
You have gone way out into the off-road subject. It's just not relatable to this thread.

[Newfoundlander]

You're still not quite getting my point, William. Take a minute and digest this, because it really is relevant...


To me, the DRZ400 is a dirt-bike with blinkers.

Nope...

With the 'deathwings' on it, and a 15/44 sprocket set, a DRZ is a streetbike that looks the part of a dirtbike. They come that way, because three times as many people never ride dualsport bikes off road, as those who do. So the bike's come set up to be safer on pavement, than off.

If you had installed a set of, say Dunlop D606s, on your bike, regeared it, and had an engine skid and case guards on it, then you would have at least prepped the bike for sand riding. Otherwise, just like the DRZ400, it's not ready for off road use, epecially sand or trails.

Naturally the DRZ will go places that the DL can only imagine going, once properly prepped. But there's the operative word again...'prepped'.

If you went right out and bought a brand new DRZ400S, and rode it up that same sandy driveway, you'd be just as likely to drop it, in stock trim, as your were the DL. Seriously!

[William]

You're still not quite getting my point, William. Take a minute and digest this, because it really is relevant...




Nope...

With the 'deathwings' on it, and a 15/44 sprocket set, a DRZ is a streetbike that looks the part of a dirtbike. They come that way, because three times as many people never ride dualsport bikes off road, as those who do. So the bike's come set up to be safer on pavement, than off.

If you had installed a set of, say Dunlop D606s, on your bike, regeared it, and had an engine skid and case guards on it, then you would have at least prepped the bike for sand riding. Otherwise, just like the DRZ400, it's not ready for off road use, epecially sand or trails.

Naturally the DRZ will go places that the DL can only imagine going, once properly prepped. But there's the operative word again...'prepped'.

If you went right out and bought a brand new DRZ400S, and rode it up that same sandy driveway, you'd be just as likely to drop it, in stock trim, as your were the DL. Seriously!
I don't know about "just as likely" due to the weight difference, but I do know what you're saying (IMHO).
As I stated earlier, I bought the TKC-80 front tire. I was on the curve that you and TouringDude and MonkeyGrass are pointing to. Please do not think that I haven't seen what you guys have said. It all appears as virtual black ink on my computer monitor.
I'm saying that when I got to where I was 2 days ago on my learning curve... the sky opened and the light descended upon me as an angel coming from above (er..., something like that).
I agree, the tires would improve the situation, as does my improving riding skills and as does optimal moisture content in the soil, etc. But again, when I got far enough along to see what was on the horizon, I saw that the bike at best is ill-suited to what, by the way that it was advertised, seemed to be (TO ME... who is not too smart, and not too stupid... but yeah, just right!) squarely within the middle of it's ability.
I'm saying that I now see 'with new eyes' what you have said and what other guys have said really quite plainly (e.g. see the links in my post #30).
I'm just saying that I guesstimate the damage to me at $1500, and I am also saying that this damage occured because the motorcycle is substantially misrepresented as dualsport ("clearly";)) .
William

[SCraig]

I think I speak for many of us here when I say:

AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

Why is there not an "Ignore Topic" switch?

[William]

I think I speak for many of us here when I say:

AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

Why is there not an "Ignore Topic" switch?

There is such a switch, Craig. Problem is, you control it.:D

[Ewchimp]

William, I'm not attacking you, but I do believe you have bought the wrong motorcycle for your needs. I strongly disagree that the Strom is not a dual-sport. It's weakness is sand and soupy mud, but it can be ridden with patience and practice, I do it almost every day for stress relief on my lunch hour. I ride through the woods on the back side of base on tracks left by the humvees. There not roads, just the tire trails with ruts and rocks and the odd branch. It's a lot of fun, highly recommend it. A true dirt bike or KLR would be way better for it, but when I cruise down interstate at eighty, I'm still good to ride after a couple of hours. This bike was meant for eighty percent road use, twenty dirt (I swear I saw that on the Suzuki site a two years ago, but could be wrong), and it does that duty exceptionally well. I can't think of another street oriented bike that would operate better under your driveway conditions. Try paddling up the drive til comfortable and then slowly increase your speed as your comfort with the bike increases. Give her a chance, she really is a blast. Whatever you decide, best of luck, I sincerely hope you find riding hapiness.


BTW, get the flush mounts and engine guards. At the very least they look cool as hell on the Strom.

[William]

William, I'm not attacking you, but I do believe you have bought the wrong motorcycle for your needs. I strongly disagree that the Strom is not a dual-sport. It's weakness is sand and soupy mud, but it can be ridden with patience and practice, I do it almost every day for stress relief on my lunch hour. I ride through the woods on the back side of base on tracks left by the humvees. There not roads, just the tire trails with ruts and rocks and the odd branch. It's a lot of fun, highly recommend it. A true dirt bike or KLR would be way better for it, but when I cruise down interstate at eighty, I'm still good to ride after a couple of hours. This bike was meant for eighty percent road use, twenty dirt (I swear I saw that on the Suzuki site a two years ago, but could be wrong), and it does that duty exceptionally well. I can't think of another street oriented bike that would operate better under your driveway conditions. Try paddling up the drive til comfortable and then slowly increase your speed as your comfort with the bike increases. Give her a chance, she really is a blast. Whatever you decide, best of luck, I sincerely hope you find riding hapiness.


BTW, get the flush mounts and engine guards. At the very least they look cool as hell on the Strom.
100% agreement (OK, 99.99%). Please see my just posted #9 in this thread (http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10818).
Here it is:
"I just bought a new V-Strom 650 after having not ridden since my teen years (I'm a model year Nineteen-Fifty-Eight). It's everything good that everyone says... except, if you paint yourself into a corner based on its (lite) sand characteristics. I've been getting my n*ts kicked in another thread on this issue (and returning same; http://www.stromtrooper.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=11217). But I say, as I had seen before buying... cool bike! As long as you're not sand-ability dependent, but can one day go try sand (and then say 'thanks but no thanks'), and then go back to pavement, concrete, hard-pack dirt, gravel, crusher-run, etc., then you've arrived at a well thought-out machine. Very strong bang-for-buck score (IMHO)."
And thank you, Ewchimp.
William

[Big B]

William...may I ask what you do for a living? The way that you write and describe things, has gotten me quite curious.
I agree that this thread is getting to the point of STUPID, and I hope that you will stop posting on it soon.:twisted: Stop trying to defend your view/point, because very few if any of us are gonna buy into it. Take a very very very good look at a Vstrom, now does it look like a real kick ass offroad capable machine? Who cares what Suzuki says it is.....use good common sense, which you did not.;) Take responsibility for your actions, and not be a finger pointer. By the way....take most ANY bike made and drop it on its side, and you will have a broken signal or worse.

Put it up 4sale, there are several Florida guys who would love to have it. Enjoy the weekend, and have yourself a cup of ice cream that is probably too cold for you. Hot chocolate is too hot too!:rolleyes:

[William]

William...may I ask what you do for a living? The way that you write and describe things, has gotten me quite curious.
I agree that this thread is getting to the point of STUPID, and I hope that you will stop posting on it soon.:twisted: Stop trying to defend your view/point, because very few if any of us are gonna buy into it. Take a very very very good look at a Vstrom, now does it look like a real kick ass offroad capable machine? Who cares what Suzuki says it is.....use good common sense, which you did not.;) Take responsibility for your actions, and not be a finger pointer. By the way....take most ANY bike made and drop it on its side, and you will have a broken signal or worse.

Put it up 4sale, there are several Florida guys who would love to have it. Enjoy the weekend, and have yourself a cup of ice cream that is probably too cold for you. Hot chocolate is too hot too!:rolleyes:
For ****-sake, B. Get hooked on Phonics. I'M NOT TRYING TO DO "KICK-ASS OFFROAD" riding. I wanted to do SV650 riding, but figured out that it wasn't right for my arrangement. I looked at the DR650, rode one... picked the brain of many experienced DR650 riders (who didn't like them much for road work). It seemed clear to me (thanks Suzuki!), that I had to pay a premium to get the SV650 ride that could get through A ****ING LITTLE BIT of DR650 territory, and I STEPPED UP AND PAID THE FREAKIN' PREMIUM!
And found out that I was grossly mislead (or misled, or misleaded???). Stop with the freakin' "kick-ass offroad" horseshit, already.
Yes, I could move to suburbia, but in the meantime, don't ****ing talk sideways at me.:D
Much love,
William
PS-And now I find out that the freakin' Canucks were never put through this dual sport shit! (How's that supposed to make me feel?)

[William]

Listen, all you E.S.T. (7:00pm) ET folk. I'll get all Alec Baldwin on your ass (that's how we roll up in here). I don't care ("...or that your mother was a thoughtless pain in the ass....", but oh so fine).
ROTFLMAO:arrow:(next)

[WeThereYet]

Sombody needs a hug!

C'mon Stromtroopers. As was so eloquently put by someone on this or another forum some time ago - "You can only wrestle a pig in the mud for so long, before you realize that the pig actually enjoys it."

There's no winning this one. We're just encouraging him.

[William]

Sombody needs a hug!

C'mon Stromtroopers. As was so eloquently put by someone on this or another forum some time ago - "You can only wrestle a pig in the mud for so long, before you realize that the pig actually enjoys it. There's no winning this one. We're just encouraging him."
...and hiding from the truth in the meantime (Da-Nile is not just a river in Egypt).:rolleyes:
William
PS-Everybody needs a hug (i.e. it is the equal sign, it, like your input, does not simplify the algorithm).

[Big B]

You fella's want this thread closed? I"m thinking the poor old horse is dead, and shouldn't be beaten anymore. I'm gonna head to the store and get me a copy of Hooked on Phonics.;)

[TouringDude]

i vote we close it.

[Roo]

What facinated reading almost a soapy when will the saga end iam killing my self with mirth please dont stop:-D

[chris swann]

i pick up my new strom on tuesday,if drop it i will hide under a rock ,if i drop it twice in a week,i will trade it in on a burgman 650 exectutive[can i put knobbys on a burgman?]

[William]

Moderator/Admin.,
Would you do me a favor and add (& sand) to my title for this thread? This would be so when someone does a title search using the keyword 'sand' it will come up on the list (only 2 relevant threads currently come up). Thanks.
William

[cra1g]

Moderator/Admin.,
Would you do me a favor and add (& sand) to my title for this thread? This would be so when someone does a title search using the keyword 'sand' it will come up on the list (only 2 relevant threads currently come up). Thanks.
William

Could we also add "frivolous lawsuit", "lack of personal responsibility", and "bike doesn't ride itself"? Thanks.

[MightyShep]

Okay, I just struggled through eight pages of this and I gotta say that William is quite probably one of the silliest people posting here. I really did enjoy how he got his sand riding know how out of the Owners Manual. I heard that's how all the great motocross riders get their tips. Get a grip Jethro. If you drop your bike, YOU get the honors of repairing it. Don't blame the Suzuki. If you tweak your knee riding inthe sand that's your fault. Don't blame Suzuki. If you can't handle 2 wheels in the sand that's your fault. Don't blame Suzuki. There's a great saying that goes something like this

"Why do we let the monkey go, and blame the monkey wrench?"

[MonkeyGrass]

"Why do we let the monkey go, and blame the monkey wrench?"

Someone rang? :mrgreen: Oh.. nevermind.

Here's a good sayin' for ya - "Tis a poor carpenter who blames his tools."

I really like that one. 'Specially in this situation. ;)

William, I am flattered that you think I'm a "whipper-snapper". Really, I am. In all honestly, I have a 19 yr old daughter in college, my wife is your age to a "T". I'm a few years younger than she is, but not that much, and old enough to know better.

As in, know better than to blame Suzuki if/when I drop a motorcycle in the sand.

Wait - you seriously WANT more people to be able to search and find this topic?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!


THAT is the funniest thing I've read so far! :lol:

[Tailgunner]

Just subjected myself to reading this thread....jeez William, lighten up a bit.

I've ridden a Yamaha Thundercat in 2" of compacted snow, it wasn't fun, I did a max of about 15mph, and was lucky not to drop it. I chose to ride it there, and it would have been my fault had the worst happened. There is no way I would have sued Yamaha for not supplying snow chains!!! :rolleyes:

I have also ridden my Vee on 'lite' sand at a poorly maintained car park in Skegness, and miraculously failed to drop it, contrary to Suzuki clearly lulling me into a false sense of security! :rolleyes:

No wonder whenever I travel to the US I have to pay extra for my travel insurance to cover potential litigation!

[William]

Well, Tailgunner, you sure didn't make it sound like much fun (the lite sand).;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ea1958/SuzukiApril07003.jpg

$58 part with unintended reminder to Shaq:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ea1958/SuzukiApril07019.jpg

$58 part with unintended "Feedback to Suzuki":
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ea1958/SuzukiApril07021.jpg

I was blowing off a bit of steam (with some extreme off-road writing, included). I'm going to start another sand thread (with photos), and try to stay sincerely on topic (wish me luck).:mrgreen:
William
Edit-On second thought..., the other 2 sand threads still seem to have pretty much covered the topic (I now know).:oops:

[sandiegoland]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ea1958/SuzukiApril07003.jpg


Hang in there William. Get one of these signs for your driveway: :D

http://www.thumbwave.com/drz400s/p4220085e.jpg

[Newfoundlander]

Here's a good sayin' for ya - "Tis a poor carpenter who blames his tools."


And with regard to 'prepping' the bike for the conditions you intend using it for...

"A sharp tool is a safe tool!"


If you don't prep the bike for the intended use, when you crash you have no one to blame but yourself. And even then you might still be to blame.


William...

You said...

I bought the TKC-80 front tire. So what type of tire were you running on the rear?

[William]

All true, all true.
You know, I'd still say that the best thing that anyone has said about this motorcycle in sand, is that 'they did it once, and they didn't get a boo-boo'. I just thought that I was going to do my normal commuting (in a leisurely fashion). That was my interest. My reasoning was 'what the heck, have some fun Willy-boy; and the saving in Truck gas is ready-made funding'.:D
I never mounted the TKC-80:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ea1958/SuzukiApril07045.jpg
As has been said, the tires would help, but I came to the realization (please see other sand threads) that it would not be enough for me to want to go get the Sunday morning paper with the bike. I'd have to stab myself in the thigh with a load of human growth hormone (or whatever it is that the bicycle racers use) everytime I wanted to ride my motorcycle.
Imagine your kitchen floor is Terrazo. Cover it with marbles. Put on a pair of patent leather shoes. OK, so you could do it, but I'm pretty sure that, from there-on-out, any pleasurable thought of going to the refrigerator would be mixed with a certain feeling of dread (e.g. SanDiegoLand's sign photo flashes in my ADD head).:p
William

[Tailgunner]

ROFLMAO!!!

This thread is hilarious!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[William]

Well, I've had a little time now, to settle down and look at the subject with more perspective. I now see that there were many people posting in this thread who were right from the beginning... and consistent about it.
And I have come to the following conclusion:
It's not a dual sport. :sad:

[Tailgunner]

Well, I've had a little time now, to settle down and look at the subject with more perspective. I now see that there were many people posting in this thread who were right from the beginning... and consistent about it.
And I have come to the following conclusion:
It's not a dual sport. :sad:

Does this mean you're going to keep the bike?

[tophski]

I never mounted the TKC-80: As has been said, the tires would help, but I came to the realization (please see other sand threads) that it would not be enough for me to want to go get the Sunday morning paper with the bike.

lol, I'm betting the knobby would work a lot better installed. A set would work even better. :lol:

[Newfoundlander]

lol, I'm betting the knobby would work a lot better installed. A set would work even better

Bingo!

:mrgreen:

[6cycles]

Please tell me about the flush mounted signals also. Thanks.

[William]

You actually have to read the other sand threads to see what you get out of the knobbies.
I actually enjoy the engineering and analysis, but I stay busy in that way on my proprietary work.
No Tailgunner, I don't keep "wrong tools" in my barn (even if they were misrepresented as right ones when I bought them).
I'm just waiting on the Title.
But it's a cool road bike!:D
William

[chris swann]

awsome you get the new tires,i know from the past that its the front in crapy conditions is what saves you,smart move,and the knobs realy do well on tight road turns,i had perelli mt 21 s on my duel sport xlr 650 and could hang corners on the road realy well,

[msheron]

Would one not see that is a sh1tty dealer and not the bike. Also two inches of sand can be a beeeeotch and I would suggest a more aggressive tire for that.

Just some suggestions.

And yes I agree with you on the turn signal you did not break yourself. They should fix it. But in all these are good little bikes.

[Tailgunner]

William, I do have some sympathy with your ongoing saga, and I appreciate how easy it is to drop one of these!

Due to my ham fisted-ness I used the front brake on some gravel and was very grateful of being a larger bloke when it came to catching my Vee. My bad riding though, it was better when I got it on the SAND in the car park, no front brake.

But then, engine braking rules!! ;) So does sliding the rear a little, was like being a kid again!

You lost me with the 'tools in the barn' comment, but then I have just worked 60 hours in 4 days!

Happy riding!:)

[Oldschooler]

http://members.stormi.ca/BABBS/images/smiles/deadhorse.gif

[flyinggreek84]

Ok, so far everyone I know has dumped their rides in sand, me included, but after lowering the tire pressure to about a half bar, or 10 lbs - 14 lbs, I haven't had an issue since. Metzler makes a great D.O.T. nobbie that works great on my KTM. I ordered some for the 1k6 and hope to have them mounted for the weekend, as for the light you spoke of in the begining, I believe we all have broke at least one.

As for the warranty issues with the other light, well, I will say that because of the broken one, I would be more apt to say no myselfsimply because of the fact you are holding a broken one and asking the dealer to replace a cracked one. I would say no, but sell them to you at cost and install them for free.

[MonkeyGrass]

http://members.stormi.ca/BABBS/images/smiles/deadhorse.gif

PLEASE DIE, THREAD.

[flyinggreek84]

Oh come on, there has to be at least one marathon thread to remind everyone of something they said that was somewhat questionable.....Right? LOL

[Mortaine]

Sorry I missed this one Wow! Verrrry surprised at the patience toward the originator of the thread.

[Heavy]

I'm very sorry you missed it.

That would have made it worth following.

[Wee_Willie]

Sorry I missed this one Wow! Verrrry surprised at the patience toward the originator of the thread.

The "sad" thing is, that without using the "B" word this went back to the top on the threads!!

[MAXSTROMBERG]

I get a mental pic of that englishman Terry?/ with the big space in his front teeth.

[wraighter]

This thread is a hideous, loathesome brute ...... but I can't look away.

[emsdaddy]

If I lived in a similar location with a light sand driveway, would I be better off with a 650 or 1000? Either way I should break it in with Synthetic, right?

[flyinggreek84]

Wow, This one grew like a zit the night before prom. LOL

[flyinggreek84]

This thread is a hideous, loathesome brute ...... but I can't look away.

Kinda like a bad car crash, you know you don't wanna look, but you have to.