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  #11  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:50 PM
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The details of how damping works in general is better studied in reference book such as RaceTech's Suspension Bible - Ricor uses slightly different terminology but is talking the same thing - Chassis movement damping = low velocity damping, wheel/bump movement damping = hi-velocity damping.


Best way to understand how intiminator works is to dismantle it - it's not hard at all to put back - do it one at a time

As to Ricor's insistence on using using stock spring with intiminator regardless of rider weight - i would disagree because i test it the same intiminator with at least 3 different spring - correct spring is important as part of overall equation. You need to test using different springs before you make a judgement unless you are a born genius. Every body's definition of "lighter"is different so talking about that can be confusing.

Many people using heavier than "should be" spring to control the brake dive forgetting the brake dive is a function of fork design and damping should be utilized to control the rate of dive.

I heard that iniminator work out of the box extremely well for KLR owners but this was not the case for vstrom, at least with early releases. So experience from different bikes on stock intiminator do not necessarily translate.
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  #12  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRider View Post
correct spring is important as part of overall equation. You need to test using different springs...

I heard that iniminator work out of the box extremely well for KLR owners but this was not the case for vstrom, at least with early releases. So experience from different bikes on stock intiminator do not necessarily translate.
Thanks! Yep, I'm from a KLR650...they have worse suspension than stock VStroms, from what I can tell. I tried Progressive springs then the recommended RaceTech springs on my KLR...liked the straight-rate RaceTech stiff springs when I was bombing through the desert with a bunch of guys on much better off-road bikes than my KLR. I had the reputation of being able to keep up regardless of the poor KLR...but, it was mostly the suspension improvements that allowed me to keep up. Once I quit riding desert bombing missions, I was much happier with stock KLR springs, and they even changed my valving on the rear to be much more compliant.

SOLD the KLR, though, and got my 2012 650 Adventure, which I'm enjoying tinkering with now. MUCH nicer bike than the KLR...but, I won't be out climbing desert mountain trails on the Wee!
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  #13  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:04 PM
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Remember to add a fork brace as part of the solution.

I have Intiminators combined with the right spring for my weight (0.90 according to Rich "Mr. Sonic Springs" Desmond), 5 wt fork oil, modified Intiminators according to Acerider's solution (drilled a bypass through the spindle with a #60 bit) and set the shim stack to my liking, and welded and re-drilled the rebound port smaller. The result is plush control.

And, improving one end shows the weakness in the other end. Is Rich Desmond setting up a shock mod program?
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2012, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTRider View Post
Remember to add a fork brace as part of the solution.
Brace is on as of this afternoon...
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I've got to look into fork braces as a start and reevaluate there.

I weight 76 kgs (how many lbs is that? ) full geared with boots. after the braces will reevaluate whether Ricor is right for me.
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2012, 09:27 AM
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76 kg x 2.2 = 167 lbs.
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  #17  
Old 12-18-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRider View Post
The details of how damping works in general is better studied in reference book such as RaceTech's Suspension Bible - Ricor uses slightly different terminology but is talking the same thing - Chassis movement damping = low velocity damping, wheel/bump movement damping = hi-velocity damping.
From reading this, I don't think low velocity damping is the same as Chassis movement toward earth. So, an Emulator's cap pressure relief cannot react differently to a compression input depending upon whether the input comes from the wheel, or the input comes from the chassis.

This explains why I could jump an Intiminator-equipped bike and the landing wouldn't bottom out the suspension. When the bike lifts off from the ground, the forks are soon maximally extended, then as the bike begins to descend toward the earth, the Intertia valve reacts to the oil in the shock relative to the movement of the entire bike chassis as it drops back to the ground. This results in the Inertia valve being MAXIMALLY closed upon landing...so, it's going to fight as much as it shim stack will allow it to resist that compressing impact as the bike's chassis is rushing toward the wheel that just hit the ground. That's why it feels so stiff on landings.

On a simple bump impact, the oil in the forks is NOT affecting the Intertia valve to force it closed, allowing it to completely blow off in response to the wheel driving upwards. That's why it feels so pliable over bumps.

The Emulator can't discern a difference between a hard landing or a hard impact bump...it only senses the speed of the movement. That's why the more pliable you make the Emulator, the more likely it will bottom out if you jump it, and the more you make the Emulator stiffer for landings, the stiffer it reacts to a hard single bump impact.

I think I got it!

Now, to see if I can understand rebound....
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:46 PM
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The Ricor Intiminator is two compression damping valves in one assembly. The low velocity or high velocity damping refers to the rate the suspension is compressing, not the speed the bike is traveling forward. The Intiminator's inertial valve is a brass spool valve covering oil ports held in position by a light spring. If the wheel rapidly moves upward the brass spool valve is "left behind" as the Intiminator body rapidly rises, thus opening the ports. The shim stack is a flat spring steel valve that covers larger ports. These open for high velocity damping when the inertia valve isn't adequate to handle enough oil flow, and they open for low velocity damping such as brake dive.

Rebound damping is the restriction of movement when the forks are lengthening. The Intiminator doesn't have rebound damping--that is handled by the original rebound damping port in the damper rod...but this damping action is changed due to the lighter (5 wt) fork oil the Intiminator requires. The basic concept of the Intiminator is that the stock damping with 10 wt oil is greatly lessened by the use of 5 wt oil, and the Intiminator damping is then added back for adequate compression damping.
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Last edited by PTRider; 12-18-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTRider View Post
The low velocity or high velocity damping refers to the rate the suspension is compressing, not the speed the bike is traveling forward.
I understand and agree with everything except this sentence above. I wasn't saying anything about rate of forward motion of the bike. Instead, I was saying that the Intertia valve reacts differently to vertical movement: either the wheel rising (when it blows off) or the chassis dropping (when it is maximally closed). Emulators react to vertical movement, too, it's just that Emulator reaction is the same no matter if the vertical movement is the wheel rising, or if it is the chassis dropping (it blows off it's cap if the motion is fast).

Rebound is quickened by the thinner oil...yep, I see that.

I know of at least one engineer that drilled holes to increase the speed of rebound...however, I have no idea where he drilled....all I know is that it wasn't on the Intiminator body itself. I can't figure out where in this system that drilled holes would quicken rebound without affecting compression. Again, I'm showing my lack of knowledge about manipulating this valve.

Again, thanks for your help!

Last edited by Blackheart; 12-19-2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:13 AM
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Rebound damping controls the downward or extension movement of the stanchion . Neither emulator nor intiminator controls or claim to control that part of damping as a bypass valve enable free flow of fluid in that direction. The rebound damping is a function of fluid viscosity and rebound orifice located near the top of damper rod.

If u keep the fluid viscosity constant whilst change the size of rebound orifice, then u can change the rebound without affecting compression.

Detail of the subject is better studied with diagrams in a suspension reference book
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